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12-Year-Old Boy - Tried as an Adult?

ErikViking

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Does anoyone here have any input regarding this? It seems obvious that a 12 year old is not an adult, but what is the purpose of having a trial as if he were? Are there flaws in the juvenile court system that makes it incapable of handling such violent crimes? Or is it about something else?

CBS News


12-Year-Old Boy Jordan Brown Should Be Tried as an Adult for Murder, Doctor Argues

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A boy who was 11-years-old when he allegedly murdered his father's pregnant fiancee with a shotgun has a "very limited" likelihood of being rehabilitated through the juvenile court system, a psychiatrist hired by state prosecutors said.
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A judge will now weigh that in deciding whether Jordan Brown, now 12, will be tried as an adult or have his case moved to juvenile court.
...
 

Article 15

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The answer is in your link:

The 12-year-old faces up to life in prison if he's convicted of the Feb. 20, 2009 murder of 26-year-old Kenzie Houk and her nearly full-term son as she lay in bed in their New Galilee farmhouse. If the case is moved to juvenile court, the longest Brown could remain incarcerated or on probation would be about nine years - just until he's 21-years-old.

The lil' fucker allegedy killed a nearly full-term pregnant woman and the fetus.

If he is tried as a child his punishment is limited to nine years of incarceration.

If he's convicted I hope they fry the son-of-a bitch.
 

RetiredGySgt

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The quoted part says it all. The Juvenile system is not set up to handle people like him. He knowingly and with aforethought set out to murder a woman. He should not be put in with children as he did not act as one.
 
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ErikViking

ErikViking

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The quoted part says it all. The Juvenile system is not set up to handle people like him. He knowingly and with aforethought set out to murder a woman. He should not be put in with children as he did not act as one.

So I was wrong then? This is more about finding a suitable punishment for the boy rather than incapabilities of the juvenile court system or rehabilitation of juveniles? EDIT: No, I misunderstood. I guess that was what the quoted part said. Sorry!

The answer is in your link:

...

If he's convicted I hope they fry the son-of-a bitch.

Pretty harsh. I would rather be killed myself than letting anyone kill my child. I somehow feel responsible of their actions.
 
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The quoted part says it all. The Juvenile system is not set up to handle people like him. He knowingly and with aforethought set out to murder a woman. He should not be put in with children as he did not act as one.

So I was wrong then? This is more about finding a suitable punishment for the boy rather than incapabilities of the juvenile court system or rehabilitation of juveniles? EDIT: No, I misunderstood. I guess that was what the quoted part said. Sorry!

The answer is in your link:

...

If he's convicted I hope they fry the son-of-a bitch.

Pretty harsh. I would rather be killed myself than letting anyone kill my child. I somehow feel responsible of their actions.

What about your child about to be born? Does that kid not count just because he hadn't yet been born?

Or the woman? Did she not count for anything just because she was older than the 12 year old?

Personally, if a kid of mine could do something so reprehensible, I would have no problem with him spending his miserable life in prison..... and I'd probably feel I should be there with him.

I think it's pretty harsh that you seem unable to care about the actual victims and focus more on the little bastard that (allegedly) committed the crime. Are you European?
 

chanel

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Extreme circumstance. Children, IN GENERAL, should not be tried in the adult system, but there are a rare few who need to be kept out of the general public forever. This kid is one. They should send him to kiddie jail til he's 18 and then put him in adult prison. But he should never be set free.
 

strollingbones

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The answer is in your link:

The 12-year-old faces up to life in prison if he's convicted of the Feb. 20, 2009 murder of 26-year-old Kenzie Houk and her nearly full-term son as she lay in bed in their New Galilee farmhouse. If the case is moved to juvenile court, the longest Brown could remain incarcerated or on probation would be about nine years - just until he's 21-years-old.

The lil' fucker allegedy killed a nearly full-term pregnant woman and the fetus.

If he is tried as a child his punishment is limited to nine years of incarceration.

If he's convicted I hope they fry the son-of-a bitch.

and you are suppose to be a "liberal" mod? but that is off topic...

is it the kid's fault that our so called "rehabillation" fails (as does my spelling) note the person didnt say the kid couldnt be saved...but said couldnt be saved in our system...

you cant fry 12 yr olds....*deep sighing* what does it say of a society that kills its own kids .....**


** dont even start on abortion...lets deal with living beings
 

Article 15

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The answer is in your link:

The 12-year-old faces up to life in prison if he's convicted of the Feb. 20, 2009 murder of 26-year-old Kenzie Houk and her nearly full-term son as she lay in bed in their New Galilee farmhouse. If the case is moved to juvenile court, the longest Brown could remain incarcerated or on probation would be about nine years - just until he's 21-years-old.

The lil' fucker allegedy killed a nearly full-term pregnant woman and the fetus.

If he is tried as a child his punishment is limited to nine years of incarceration.

If he's convicted I hope they fry the son-of-a bitch.

and you are suppose to be a "liberal" mod? but that is off topic...

is it the kid's fault that our so called "rehabillation" fails (as does my spelling) note the person didnt say the kid couldnt be saved...but said couldnt be saved in our system...

you cant fry 12 yr olds....*deep sighing* what does it say of a society that kills its own kids .....**


** dont even start on abortion...lets deal with living beings

Ok, fine. Wait til he's 18 then do it ...
 

strollingbones

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The answer is in your link:



The lil' fucker allegedy killed a nearly full-term pregnant woman and the fetus.

If he is tried as a child his punishment is limited to nine years of incarceration.

If he's convicted I hope they fry the son-of-a bitch.

and you are suppose to be a "liberal" mod? but that is off topic...

is it the kid's fault that our so called "rehabillation" fails (as does my spelling) note the person didnt say the kid couldnt be saved...but said couldnt be saved in our system...

you cant fry 12 yr olds....*deep sighing* what does it say of a society that kills its own kids .....**


** dont even start on abortion...lets deal with living beings

Ok, fine. Wait til he's 18 then do it ...

sometimes this place makes me look forward to the damned doggie enema

you must think of the mind of a 12 yr old..they are just beginning to develop abstract thought....(let me know if this gets over your head luv) they also ....in that way..think they are the first to "think" this way....and why did the kid kill the woman? things are never as clear cut as they seem .. esp when dealing with an underdeveloped brain ...(resisting nasty shot @ you)
 

Article 15

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and you are suppose to be a "liberal" mod? but that is off topic...

is it the kid's fault that our so called "rehabillation" fails (as does my spelling) note the person didnt say the kid couldnt be saved...but said couldnt be saved in our system...

you cant fry 12 yr olds....*deep sighing* what does it say of a society that kills its own kids .....**


** dont even start on abortion...lets deal with living beings

Ok, fine. Wait til he's 18 then do it ...

sometimes this place makes me look forward to the damned doggie enema

you must think of the mind of a 12 yr old..they are just beginning to develop abstract thought....(let me know if this gets over your head luv) they also ....in that way..think they are the first to "think" this way....and why did the kid kill the woman? things are never as clear cut as they seem .. esp when dealing with an underdeveloped brain ...(resisting nasty shot @ you)

Sorry, just how a feel ...

I'm very hesitant to buy that killing a pregnant woman like that (or anyone for that matter) is something that can be rehabilitated.
 

strollingbones

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i wonder that too but then i see the minister's wife get 6 months for killing him...shot him in the back as he slept....i often have wondered what would drive one to kill...after last year...i know...
 

Mr.Fitnah

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You can not rehabilitate someone to a condition to which they've never been habilitated to.
Seems the little angle just didnt like the competition.
 
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ErikViking

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I think it's pretty harsh that you seem unable to care about the actual victims and focus more on the little bastard that (allegedly) committed the crime. Are you European?


U.S. is not alone to have separate systems like this and this kind of discussion isn't held in U.S. only. I can't imagine a higher stress on any court system than situations like theese and my interest is in what parameters lies behind deciding wich system to prosecute under. Age is obviously one, ability to conduct a fair trail would be another - considering the nature of the crime - and finally how to deal with the outcome of such a trial (there might be a lack of competence, facilities and other issues with the juvenile system).

And obviously you have no idea of what I care about.

If the primary drive behind putting a 12 year old on trail as an adult and wishing for him "to fry" is solely about revenge for the victims, then I must ask: Are you from Afghanistan? Hell, we might even hire the Talibans to teach us about behaving civilized!
 

RetiredGySgt

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...
I think it's pretty harsh that you seem unable to care about the actual victims and focus more on the little bastard that (allegedly) committed the crime. Are you European?


U.S. is not alone to have separate systems like this and this kind of discussion isn't held in U.S. only. I can't imagine a higher stress on any court system than situations like theese and my interest is in what parameters lies behind deciding wich system to prosecute under. Age is obviously one, ability to conduct a fair trail would be another - considering the nature of the crime - and finally how to deal with the outcome of such a trial (there might be a lack of competence, facilities and other issues with the juvenile system).

And obviously you have no idea of what I care about.

If the primary drive behind putting a 12 year old on trail as an adult and wishing for him "to fry" is solely about revenge for the victims, then I must ask: Are you from Afghanistan? Hell, we might even hire the Talibans to teach us about behaving civilized!

Our Court systems must both protect the Public and seek Justice for the Public. Putting this monster in a Juvenile prison and then letting him go in 7 years is NOT Justice and it is NOT protecting society, He should not be around other kids and he should never be released for the 2 MURDERS he committed.

Doing that tells this little turd that life means nothing at all. From what I can glean from this he MURDERED her because she was going to be in his life permanently. In other words for jealousy and possession. He made a decision far beyond that of a normal 11 year old and deserves to be treated as an adult.
 
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ErikViking

ErikViking

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Sorry, just how a feel ...

I'm very hesitant to buy that killing a pregnant woman like that (or anyone for that matter) is something that can be rehabilitated.

Frying kids aside, I agree with you. What is to become of them all? His dad? Her family? The kid himself? Perhaps there should be some sort of safety-valve in the system to take extra ordinary actions in situations like theese.
 
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ErikViking

ErikViking

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He made a decision far beyond that of a normal 11 year old and deserves to be treated as an adult.

Isn't this a start of a rather slippery slope? Alot of... "soft" values like "normal", "deserves" and in this case even "adult" in there. Also, only focusing on that you would end up with cases where the outcome isn't lethal but the rest of the description fits. There is no need to take any special actions againt shoplifting kids even if they shoplifts like adults, is there?
 

RetiredGySgt

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He made a decision far beyond that of a normal 11 year old and deserves to be treated as an adult.

Isn't this a start of a rather slippery slope? Alot of... "soft" values like "normal", "deserves" and in this case even "adult" in there. Also, only focusing on that you would end up with cases where the outcome isn't lethal but the rest of the description fits. There is no need to take any special actions againt shoplifting kids even if they shoplifts like adults, is there?

It is NOT the same thing and yes if a child of 11 is running a gang of shoplifters and fencing the goods they should be tried as an adult. We have very strict rules about what is and is not justification for a Judge to order a minor to be tried as an adult. Further in your example the punishment is nearly identical for the crime committed if adult or child for simple shop lifting. Murder is NOT.
 

xotoxi

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The answer is in your link:

The 12-year-old faces up to life in prison if he's convicted of the Feb. 20, 2009 murder of 26-year-old Kenzie Houk and her nearly full-term son as she lay in bed in their New Galilee farmhouse. If the case is moved to juvenile court, the longest Brown could remain incarcerated or on probation would be about nine years - just until he's 21-years-old.

The lil' fucker allegedy killed a nearly full-term pregnant woman and the fetus.

If he is tried as a child his punishment is limited to nine years of incarceration.

If he's convicted I hope they fry the son-of-a bitch.

They're not going to execute him, you silly sumbitch!!! :lol:
 
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ErikViking

ErikViking

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He made a decision far beyond that of a normal 11 year old and deserves to be treated as an adult.

Isn't this a start of a rather slippery slope? Alot of... "soft" values like "normal", "deserves" and in this case even "adult" in there. Also, only focusing on that you would end up with cases where the outcome isn't lethal but the rest of the description fits. There is no need to take any special actions againt shoplifting kids even if they shoplifts like adults, is there?

It is NOT the same thing and yes if a child of 11 is running a gang of shoplifters and fencing the goods they should be tried as an adult. We have very strict rules about what is and is not justification for a Judge to order a minor to be tried as an adult. Further in your example the punishment is nearly identical for the crime committed if adult or child for simple shop lifting. Murder is NOT.

I know it isn't the same thing, which made me think you left something out when saying:

"He made a decision far beyond that of a normal 11 year old and deserves to be treated as an adult."

But then you state:

"and yes if a child of 11 is running a gang of shoplifters and fencing the goods they should be tried as an adult"

So the same policy applies?
Is this how you think it should work or how it actually works? Does shoplifting kids EVER get tried as adults?

Would you say the difference of capability between the juvenile court system and the court system for adults lay mainly in the severity of punishment they may rule?

Also, the slippery slope situation, wouldn't it be kind of hard to assess the mental status, motive and momentarily intellegence of kids in order to compare it to an adult in the same situation?
 
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Care4all

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How can our system say that 15 year olds do not have a mind developed enough to turn their boyfriend down for sex, or to give legal consent for sex or even consent in a legal contract, yet we say an 11 year old is an adult in this circumstance?

I'm sorry, an eleven year old is NOT an adult.

The juvenile system needs reform, how hard could it be to fix the system for the exceptions?
 

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