thye need more women and children to do their killing. because their male animals are running away.
story

__________________
Life Liberty and the pursuit of all who threaten it

So when do we turn it over to the Iraqis and bring our troops home?

I will believe the "light at the end of the tunnel" when it happens. What is really the shits is that this war never needed to be fought, and now we have no idea of when it will end. If however, you criticize, then you are told to tell US how to end this piece of shit that Bush started. If I fuck something up, no one but me is responsible for fixing it.

What a piece of crap.

It appears now is the time.

Gen. David Petraeus told an admiring Senate Armed Services Committee Thursday that the improving security situation in Iraq will likely allow him to recommend further U.S. troop reductions this fall, beyond the planned drawdown to about 140,000 in July.

Petraeus, currently the commander of the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq and now nominated by President Bush to take over as head of U.S. Central Command, appeared before the senators for a confirmation hearing. But the gathering quickly turned from his job qualifications to a progress report on Iraq.

His comments were markedly more optimistic than his last update to the committee only six weeks ago.

Petraeus reported that recent attempts by Iraqi security forces to secure parts of the nation -- including Basra, Mosul and the sprawling Shiite slum known as Sadr City in Baghdad -- with diminished U.S. military involvement have proven successful.

The general also said the U.S.-backed central government was enjoying more support among the Iraqi people, after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki showed his resolve to attack not only al-Qaida in Iraq, but also Shiite militia groups.

He said the recent move by Iraqi forces into Sadr City, much of which had been controlled by Shiite religious leader Moqtada Sadr's militia, was met with little resistance and was openly welcomed by some Iraqi citizens. Petraeus said the U.S. military had played only a support role in the operation.

Petraeus pointed to other positive developments and predicted that Sunni factions that had quit the Iraqi central government would return, aiding the reconciliation process.

The general's comments were in sharp contrast to those he made before the committee just six weeks ago, when he declined to predict when or if any further troop drawdowns could be made after those already planned leading up to July.

The mood among senators from both parties was also markedly more optimistic than it was in April, when the senators expressed skepticism about the war's progress.

"Tough fights and hard work lie ahead," Petraeus told the committee. "Nonetheless, I believe that the path we are on will best help achieve the objective of an Iraq that is at peace with itself and its neighbors, (and) that is an ally in the war on terror."

Petraeus, who, if confirmed, will command U.S. military forces in the CENTCOM region, covering 27 nations in the Middle East and Central Asia, including both Iraq and Afghanistan, appeared with Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, his current deputy, who has been nominated to succeed him as commander of the U.S.-led Multi-National Force-Iraq.

__________________
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.

JFK

No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. -- Mark Twain

Don't bother with facts, Col Mustard will just claim you do not know what you are talking about. The lefts usual tactic is to believe every thing the enemy says and NOTHING the US says, ever, Our troops will be home for years before these retards quit belly aching.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

Regardless of rayboy's typical posting habits, isn't this just a wee bit unnecessary?

__________________
"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is."

-Ronald Reagan

It's frustrating Paulitics, our troops kick ass and the left fails to acknowledge facts that the situation has improved.

__________________
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.

JFK

No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. -- Mark Twain

I think it's mostly because the left doesn't agree with the occupation to begin with. Certain "successes" that occur do not mean much to the left, as they don't agree with us having been there in the first place. I'm certainly not a lefty by very many standards, but I don't agree with the original invasion either. If we would have let Saddam run rampant and sell his oil in whatever currency he wanted to, we'd be complaining about a lot more than $4 gasoline at the pumps right now.

Although, I will give credit where it is due, and I am always glad to see improvement and less death.

__________________
"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is."

-Ronald Reagan

What does success have to do with whether or not you agree that we should be there?

THat makes absolutely no sense....

__________________
Poor Spot! He was tired of being thought of as stupid. "I'm gonna join Mensa," he said to myself, "and then I'll be legally permitted to wear the society's insignia--a tattoo of a little map pin pushed into my flesh--and then everyone'll know that I'm not dumb at all!"
Spot Joins Mensa
by James "Kibo" Parry

When you don't agree with being there to begin with, how does a handful of less deaths constitute anything to be elated about?

The word "success" here is relative.

Beyond that, I refuse to get into yet another argument about Iraq.

__________________
"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is."

-Ronald Reagan

Actually, "success" isn't fewer deaths, but fewer enemies. And it isn't subjective at all, it's a fact and it's a good thing, i.e., evidence that the campaign, whether you think it's right or not, is successful.

__________________
Poor Spot! He was tired of being thought of as stupid. "I'm gonna join Mensa," he said to myself, "and then I'll be legally permitted to wear the society's insignia--a tattoo of a little map pin pushed into my flesh--and then everyone'll know that I'm not dumb at all!"
Spot Joins Mensa
by James "Kibo" Parry

Rayboy will never admit we will ever leave, even after we leave. Why? Because we will remain there with garrison troops at the beheast of the Government. The goal has always been to get our troops out of combat by training the Iraqi military and police to do the Job. Evidence of that is not even enough to shut up Col Mustard and his followers.

Everyone with half a fucking brain understands whether you think we should have gone or not became MEANINGLESS as soon as we went. It became even less then meaningless the minute we disbanded the old army and the cops did not come back to work. It does not matter one whit if we SHOULD have gone. That is done, we can not change what w DID DO. Whining insisantly about "we shouldn't have gone" as some salve for wishing our failure is ignorant and retarded.

Signs of progress are ignored, not because they aren't really but because people like Rayboy want to cry about " we shouldn't have gone" as if that helps us get the conditions right to end our troops involvement in combat there. The "surge" which before Bush did it, the Dems DEMANDED , then when he did it they were against, showed and continues to show GREAT progress. Rather than admit that and admit we are getting close to the point we can cease direct Combat patrols people like Rayboy want to poo poo any success with the whine " We never should have gone"

Even a five year old can grasp the concept that once you do something the consequences are there to be dealt with and can not magically disappear by crying over and over " we shouldn't have done it" THAT does not help, it does not solve any problems and it causes dissent and problems in this country. Even when Bush is no longer President, whining we should not have gone won't change the fact we have to finish the job. And it STILL won;t help get that job done.

__________________
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd. Indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.

-Bertrand Russell

Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable

-Laurence J. Peters

I never said that you had no right to have an opinion. I just said that it was, in fact, worth nothing.

-Maineman ( on 12 June 2007)

I actually agree with you for the most part. Except, with that logic, the government can do anything wrong that it wants to with the fall-back of no one bitching about it after the fact, because it was already done.

At some point, you need to hold them accountable, regardless of whether or not anything's been undertaken.

I liken it to the mortagage mess. The damage is done, so now should we stop complaining about the failures and instead just insist on bailing everyone out because it already happened and it's in the past?

__________________
"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is."

-Ronald Reagan

I think these are 2 different issues, one has to do with national security while the other has to do with economic policies. There is a difference, we shouldn't be hoping for failure in Iraq, to prove some silly point.

__________________
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.

JFK

No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. -- Mark Twain

The national security part is debatable. You believe Iraq was about terrorism, and I believe it was about the petrodollar. Both of us can make a good case for our side, and it may very well be a combination of both.

But overall, the concept is the same. We shouldn't have invaded Iraq, given the hindsight issue. There were no WMD's, and also, if Iraq wants to sell oil in Euro, it's their perogative. Either way, we had no business invading. Now, we're baby sitting. We also shouldn't have artificially lowered interest rates to entice potential home buyers, and even NON-potential's, into taking on more debt. Now, we're baby sitting.

If we don't give criticism where it's due, and hold the government accountable for its actions, they will always have the incentive to make unfavorable decisions with the protection from people claiming we should just grin and bear it.

__________________
"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is."

-Ronald Reagan

I believe we were in fact, justified in invading Iraq. We gave Saddam ultimatum after ultimatum....with little to no cooperation. We couldn't allow Saddam to develop WMD's and support terrorism which was held as fact before the war started. Yes, in hindsight it does not appear that he had an active WMD program, but you can't make decisions in hindsight. Saddam did support terrorism......

The mortgage crisis was caused by people trying to live beyond their means and companies not scrutinizing potential buyers well enough.

__________________
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel or envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.

JFK

No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. -- Mark Twain