Zogby: GOP Faces Extinction Risk

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I seem to recall the Democrats being the party of NO back in 2005.

History repeats itself. *Yawn*

I was thinking the same thing earlier

There aren't but a handful of old school conservatives in the Republican Party....And they haven't said no to more big gummint since at least Coolidge.

Of course that "the (enter party in the minority here) is just the party of no" chestnut has been around at least since I've been paying attention.

Nothing new under the sun here.

DIdn't the republicans use the "Party of No" Bit until 2006 against the dems?

I think they did

 

[Oscar Wao]

The GOP was never the "conservative movement". There was a separate conservative party and a conservative wing of the GOP. But mistaking right wing religious activists and "neo-cons" for "conservatives" is a huge part of the reason that the GOP is having problems.

And the more wingnuts usurp the party, the more problems the GOP will have.

It's not dead... everything is cyclical. But as long as the wingnuts think it's better politically to be the party of no, and offer nothing, no one benefits.

What happened to the smart repubs?

Be honest! The reason the GOP is having problems is:
(1) The economic meltdown and credit crisis happened right before the election.
(2) 8 yrs of GWB
(3) No WMDs found in Iraq and an expensive and unpopular war of choice over there!
(4) Did I mention the Village Idiot in charge of the US the previous 8 years!

Obama won, but nothing like how Reagan won! Surprisingly you can take a look and see similarities of the Republicans taking over in the 80s:
(1) Economic meltdown mared by Carter's stupid economics
(2) Carter's Presidency
(3) The hostages still in Iran
(4) Did I mention the Original Village Idiot as Commander and Chief


Trust me if the economy doesn't pick up during Obama's second term, the tide will shift back to the Republicans.

It won't shift as long as the Republicans don't offer any alternatives. And they'd better start talking it up instead of an occasional Boehner grandstanding "We have a plan..." and then leaving the room. They are splintered; they do not know what their platform SHOULD be. And until that happens, the only way they will win elections is by swiftboating every inconsequential issue that comes along (i.e., Gatesgate) and hoping the more ignorant among their supporters will think those are important enough to elect people to run an entire government.

We've got some "ideas," but Vannity, Limpballs, Ya Dope!, and the typical crowd won't accept them...

 

[ElmerMudd]

There aren't but a handful of old school conservatives in the Republican Party....And they haven't said no to more big gummint since at least Coolidge.

Of course that "the (enter party in the minority here) is just the party of no" chestnut has been around at least since I've been paying attention.

Nothing new under the sun here.

The Dude has the mindset of the current Republican party

There is nothing new.

Well there is alot that is new. The demographic direction of the US electorate is changing substantially.

The fastest growing portions of the electorate are minorities and the young. The Republicans are doing very little to bring the growing segment into their party.

 

[Oscar Wao]

There aren't but a handful of old school conservatives in the Republican Party....And they haven't said no to more big gummint since at least Coolidge.

Of course that "the (enter party in the minority here) is just the party of no" chestnut has been around at least since I've been paying attention.

Nothing new under the sun here.

The Dude has the mindset of the current Republican party

There is nothing new.

Well there is alot that is new. The demographic direction of the US electorate is changing substantially.

The fastest growing portions of the electorate are minorities and the young. The Republicans are doing very little to bring the growing segment into their party.

How do you suggest we (not including you in the "we") conservatives attract the young and the minorities?

I have some ideas, but I want to hear yours first, as you brought up the subject.

 

[ElmerMudd]

The GOP is a venerable institution and it is highly unlikely they will go away.

However, unless they are willing to expand beyond their conservative base - and they seem to be going the other way - they will be a minority party for quite some time, which is a bad thing IMHO. It is important that there are two robust parties so that one party does not control everything.

Expand beyond their conservative base?!?!?!?!???....You can't be serious.

The last election, the GOP nominated exactly the kind of squishy, appeasing, woibbly-kneed "moderate" all the supposed conventional wisdom claims that they need to run in order to win, and he got his ass kicked.

McCain was the right choice to give the Republicans a chance to win even after a disaster like George Bush.

The problem was the popularity of Obama with the moderates. I think McCain could or would have beaten Clinton.

The the Republicans did not help themselves with picking Palin to solidify the base. That pushed many moderates that were considering McCain to Obama.

It is a new electorate out there. The old stodgy Republicans and the Dude don't get it.

I think the Republicans should pick McCain's daughter as their new leader. She understands the new electorate.

 

[ElmerMudd]

There aren't but a handful of old school conservatives in the Republican Party....And they haven't said no to more big gummint since at least Coolidge.

Of course that "the (enter party in the minority here) is just the party of no" chestnut has been around at least since I've been paying attention.

Nothing new under the sun here.

The Dude has the mindset of the current Republican party

There is nothing new.

Well there is alot that is new. The demographic direction of the US electorate is changing substantially.

The fastest growing portions of the electorate are minorities and the young. The Republicans are doing very little to bring the growing segment into their party.

How do you suggest we (not including you in the "we") conservatives attract the young and the minorities?

I have some ideas, but I want to hear yours first, as you brought up the subject.

In a general I feel the Republicans would attract new followers by emphasizing fiscal conservatism and moderating their socially conservative views.
The majority of the current leadership are driven by socially conservative issues not fiscally conservative issues.

Ronald Reagan said if we agree on 80% of the issues we can all work together.

Durring the Bush administration it turned to a motto that we must agree on 100% of the issues or you are not with us. The Republicans need to get back to populist thinking of Reagan.

That is a start.

 

[Toro]

The GOP is a venerable institution and it is highly unlikely they will go away.

However, unless they are willing to expand beyond their conservative base - and they seem to be going the other way - they will be a minority party for quite some time, which is a bad thing IMHO. It is important that there are two robust parties so that one party does not control everything.

Expand beyond their conservative base?!?!?!?!???....You can't be serious.

The last election, the GOP nominated exactly the kind of squishy, appeasing, woibbly-kneed "moderate" all the supposed conventional wisdom claims that they need to run in order to win, and he got his ass kicked.

The Republicans wouldn't have won with a more conservative candidate. The GOP picked the candidate with the best chance to win, though the conservative ideologues will deny that until they are blue in the face. But that's what ideologues do.

Roughly 20% of the population are conservative Republicans. Some 10%-20% of the population - depending on the poll - are conservative independents or Democrats. You simply cannot win appealing solely to the Rush Limbaugh crowd, and the Republican party is moving to the right, expunging all the so-called "RINOs."

Ideologues on both the left and the right believe strongly in the certainty of their argument such that if their party was even more whatever ideology they believe in, they would win. But it never works that way. Simple fact is that you cannot win the Presidency without winning the center. And that ain't where the Republicans are headed.

 

[eagleseven]

I seem to recall the Democrats being the party of NO back in 2005.

History repeats itself. *Yawn*

I was thinking the same thing earlier

There aren't but a handful of old school conservatives in the Republican Party....And they haven't said no to more big gummint since at least Coolidge.

Of course that "the (enter party in the minority here) is just the party of no" chestnut has been around at least since I've been paying attention.

Nothing new under the sun here.

DIdn't the republicans use the "Party of No" Bit until 2006 against the dems?

I think they did

Great minds think alike!

 

[Oddball]

The GOP is a venerable institution and it is highly unlikely they will go away.

However, unless they are willing to expand beyond their conservative base - and they seem to be going the other way - they will be a minority party for quite some time, which is a bad thing IMHO. It is important that there are two robust parties so that one party does not control everything.

Expand beyond their conservative base?!?!?!?!???....You can't be serious.

The last election, the GOP nominated exactly the kind of squishy, appeasing, woibbly-kneed "moderate" all the supposed conventional wisdom claims that they need to run in order to win, and he got his ass kicked.

The Republicans wouldn't have won with a more conservative candidate. The GOP picked the candidate with the best chance to win, though the conservative ideologues will deny that until they are blue in the face. But that's what ideologues do.

Roughly 20% of the population are conservative Republicans. Some 10%-20% of the population - depending on the poll - are conservative independents or Democrats. You simply cannot win appealing solely to the Rush Limbaugh crowd, and the Republican party is moving to the right, expunging all the so-called "RINOs."

Ideologues on both the left and the right believe strongly in the certainty of their argument such that if their party was even more whatever ideology they believe in, they would win. But it never works that way. Simple fact is that you cannot win the Presidency without winning the center. And that ain't where the Republicans are headed.

Republicans couldn't have won if they ran George Washington himself.

And I'd like to see some evidence of this myth that the party is moving right, and which RINOS have been tossed.

 

[eagleseven]

Expand beyond their conservative base?!?!?!?!???....You can't be serious.

The last election, the GOP nominated exactly the kind of squishy, appeasing, woibbly-kneed "moderate" all the supposed conventional wisdom claims that they need to run in order to win, and he got his ass kicked.

The Republicans wouldn't have won with a more conservative candidate. The GOP picked the candidate with the best chance to win, though the conservative ideologues will deny that until they are blue in the face. But that's what ideologues do.

Roughly 20% of the population are conservative Republicans. Some 10%-20% of the population - depending on the poll - are conservative independents or Democrats. You simply cannot win appealing solely to the Rush Limbaugh crowd, and the Republican party is moving to the right, expunging all the so-called "RINOs."

Ideologues on both the left and the right believe strongly in the certainty of their argument such that if their party was even more whatever ideology they believe in, they would win. But it never works that way. Simple fact is that you cannot win the Presidency without winning the center. And that ain't where the Republicans are headed.

Republicans couldn't have won if they ran George Washington himself.

And I'd like to see some evidence of this myth that the party is moving right, and which RINOS have been tossed.

The Republican party isn't moving right, as evidenced by McCain's nomination.

Rather, Mr. Obama is pulling the Democrats way left, as evidenced by his nationalization of American industry. Many in his own party (Blue-Dog Dems) think he is going too far.

Or, as my Ukrainian roommate's parents said, "We know a communist when we see one."

 

[EriktheRed]

If the GOP gets shut out again in '10, you guys are in huuuuuuuuuuuge trouble.

What do you mean if? 2010 is right around the corner. Getting shut out is a foregone conclusion. 2012 is where the GOP sinks further or begins to rise again.

Actually, I think it's likely they'll gain seats in the House, at least. They'll still be in the minority in both chambers, though.

 

[Oscar Wao]

If the GOP gets shut out again in '10, you guys are in huuuuuuuuuuuge trouble.

What do you mean if? 2010 is right around the corner. Getting shut out is a foregone conclusion. 2012 is where the GOP sinks further or begins to rise again.

Actually, I think it's likely they'll gain seats in the House, at least. They'll still be in the minority in both chambers, though.

Regaining the Senate next fall is a pipe dream (maybe they can pull off a 50/50! haha!), but the House is VERY possible.

 

[Darkwind]

Zogby: GOP Faces Extinction Risk

Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:48 AM

By: Jim Meyers Article Font Size

Pollster John Zogby tells Newsmax that the Republican Party could be "teetering on the brink" of extinction as it fails to appeal to the fastest-growing demographic groups in America.

He also said the GOP is not taking advantage of Democratic setbacks because it has not put forth alternative policies of its own.

Zogby is CEO of Zogby International, a market research and opinion polling firm he founded in 1984.

He wrote an op-ed piece for the July edition of Campaign and Elections' Politics magazine, headlined "An Endangered Party?" The article asked if the GOP will go the way of the Federalist Party and eventually disappear as a viable national party.

Newsmax.com - Zogby: GOP Faces Extinction Risk

John Zogby makes a great point when it comes to the Republican Party and conservatives. While more Americans lean right than do left, the Republican Party is doing nothing to address important issues, other than just saying no.

The problem is cutting taxes and saying no to government when it comes to anything and everything is not an answer to our problems, especially when it comes to issues such as healthcare and energy. Just saying no won't cut it any longer, and it especially won't cut it when it comes to the changing demographics of the electorate.

Why do you care?

 

[DiveCon]

Zogby: GOP Faces Extinction Risk

Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:48 AM

By: Jim Meyers Article Font Size

Pollster John Zogby tells Newsmax that the Republican Party could be "teetering on the brink" of extinction as it fails to appeal to the fastest-growing demographic groups in America.

He also said the GOP is not taking advantage of Democratic setbacks because it has not put forth alternative policies of its own.

Zogby is CEO of Zogby International, a market research and opinion polling firm he founded in 1984.

He wrote an op-ed piece for the July edition of Campaign and Elections' Politics magazine, headlined "An Endangered Party?" The article asked if the GOP will go the way of the Federalist Party and eventually disappear as a viable national party.

Newsmax.com - Zogby: GOP Faces Extinction Risk

John Zogby makes a great point when it comes to the Republican Party and conservatives. While more Americans lean right than do left, the Republican Party is doing nothing to address important issues, other than just saying no.

The problem is cutting taxes and saying no to government when it comes to anything and everything is not an answer to our problems, especially when it comes to issues such as healthcare and energy. Just saying no won't cut it any longer, and it especially won't cut it when it comes to the changing demographics of the electorate.

Zogby didn't make the Top 20 pollsters in the last election. Could that be a problem in agenda driven polling?

HEY, LOOK AT THAT

Rasmussen was #1

ah, let me guess the Department of Political Science Fordham University is a republican stronghold

​

 

[toomuchtime_]

Zogby: GOP Faces Extinction Risk

Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:48 AM

By: Jim Meyers Article Font Size

Pollster John Zogby tells Newsmax that the Republican Party could be "teetering on the brink" of extinction as it fails to appeal to the fastest-growing demographic groups in America.

He also said the GOP is not taking advantage of Democratic setbacks because it has not put forth alternative policies of its own.

Zogby is CEO of Zogby International, a market research and opinion polling firm he founded in 1984.

He wrote an op-ed piece for the July edition of Campaign and Elections' Politics magazine, headlined "An Endangered Party?" The article asked if the GOP will go the way of the Federalist Party and eventually disappear as a viable national party.

Newsmax.com - Zogby: GOP Faces Extinction Risk

John Zogby makes a great point when it comes to the Republican Party and conservatives. While more Americans lean right than do left, the Republican Party is doing nothing to address important issues, other than just saying no.

The problem is cutting taxes and saying no to government when it comes to anything and everything is not an answer to our problems, especially when it comes to issues such as healthcare and energy. Just saying no won't cut it any longer, and it especially won't cut it when it comes to the changing demographics of the electorate.

Zogby seems to be drinking Dem kool aid. The Republicans have put up ideas for changing to cleaner energy, namely nuclear reactors and clean coal plants. The new coal gasification plants such as GE builds can trap greenhouse gases as well as other pollutants so they are as clean as solar or wind energy, and they can be built close to the markets they serve so there is no need for hundreds of billions of dollars in new high capacity electric lines to carry energy from wind farms in the mid west to other places in the country and we don't have to wait for new batteries to be invented before putting these technologies into widespread use. Converting to coal gasification plants and nuclear energy would make the US energy independent for at least the next 200 years and would also benefit the environment, but it was a Republican plan, so it will never see the light of day in this Congress.

The difference between the Democrats and Republicans on health care is that the Republicans understand they have no good ideas on how to massively overhaul the health care system and the Democrats don't understand they don't have any good ideas on how to do it either. The House bill is an atrocity and polls show the American people know it. When there are no good ideas out there, sensible people in both parties will say, no, to the bad ones that are proposed.

If the Republicans are the party of no for now, then the Democrats are the party of false hopes, of broken promises, of wildly escalating debt and reckless spending. The House bill has no chance in the Senate, and if Pelosi manages to bully House Dems into voting for a bill that will make health insurance costs go up, taxes go up, the debt go up, business costs go and unemployment go up, those who vote for it will be punished at the polls by voters who have clearly indicated they don't want these things. According to Gallup, 2 out of three Americans doubt that Congress even understands health care issues. When voters go to the polls, are they going to vote for candidates who support things they oppose or are they going to vote for candidates who agree with them on these issues?

 

[editec]

There aren't but a handful of old school conservatives in the Republican Party....And they haven't said no to more big gummint since at least Coolidge.

Of course that "the (enter party in the minority here) is just the party of no" chestnut has been around at least since I've been paying attention.

Nothing new under the sun here.

The Dude has the mindset of the current Republican party

There is nothing new.

Well there is alot that is new. The demographic direction of the US electorate is changing substantially.

The fastest growing portions of the electorate are minorities and the young. The Republicans are doing very little to bring the growing segment into their party.

Yeah, that's right.

I think the R's are not marketing to the minorities and young very well.

Here's why...those are often the very people that Republican policies end up screwing.

It's mostly the YOUNG and MINORITIES for example, who don't have health care, who have the minimum wage jobs, who are in poverty, who cannot afford to pay for college.

So when your basic political message is:

I GOT MINE, GET YOURS, JACK!
​

...it might fail to resonate positively with those who as yet aren't making it in America.​

This has been a problem the Republican have had with their brand as long as I can remember.​

To some extent in the last few decades, they've gotten around that problem using the FAMILY VALUES marketing ploy.

But that only works as long as enough people are doing well enough.​

In a time of recession, things ECONOMIC become the primary motivating issues in politics.​

And hard as it is for some of you folks who ARE making it to understand?​

TAX BREAK SOLUTIONS don't attract people who don't make enough to pay taxes to begin with.​

People have a tendency to vote for people who are saying something that gives them HOPE.​

Right now, the Republicans don't have a message of HOPE to give to the young and minorities.​

If anything, what the Republicans are currently trying to sell to the working class poor American public (and that number is growing every day) is exactly the opposite of what they want to hear.​

What do they want to hear?​

That they'll get HC coverage they currently don't have or fear losing if they lose their jobs.​

That the government is working to keep their companies and the economy going.​

That they're NOT on their own in the economic wilderness of this recession that really is threatening millions of American families with homelessness and abject poverty.​

Now read the sentiments of most of the Republican loyals on this board, and what you hear in their message is basically...​

Fuck off losers, we don't care if you all die.​

Now I actually can understand why some of you feel that way, but apparently you cannot understand why people who are in trouble financially won't vote for the people who don't give a shit if they die.

What killed the Republican's chances in the last election, folks?​

The economy.​

And what do most of you folks want the government to do about the economy?​

Nothing!

You guys WANT companies to go down, and you don't CARE if people lose their jobs, their homes, their lives. You guys just don't CARE.​

Your lack of empathy is exactly WHY the Republican party isn't doing that well, right now.​

Now, you've got to wait for OBAMA policies to fail before the American people give your party a chance again.

​

 

[Arawyn]

Zogby: GOP Faces Extinction Risk

Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:48 AM

By: Jim Meyers Article Font Size

Pollster John Zogby tells Newsmax that the Republican Party could be "teetering on the brink" of extinction as it fails to appeal to the fastest-growing demographic groups in America.

He also said the GOP is not taking advantage of Democratic setbacks because it has not put forth alternative policies of its own.

Zogby is CEO of Zogby International, a market research and opinion polling firm he founded in 1984.

He wrote an op-ed piece for the July edition of Campaign and Elections' Politics magazine, headlined "An Endangered Party?" The article asked if the GOP will go the way of the Federalist Party and eventually disappear as a viable national party.

Newsmax.com - Zogby: GOP Faces Extinction Risk

John Zogby makes a great point when it comes to the Republican Party and conservatives. While more Americans lean right than do left, the Republican Party is doing nothing to address important issues, other than just saying no.

The problem is cutting taxes and saying no to government when it comes to anything and everything is not an answer to our problems, especially when it comes to issues such as healthcare and energy. Just saying no won't cut it any longer, and it especially won't cut it when it comes to the changing demographics of the electorate.

Zogby seems to be drinking Dem kool aid. The Republicans have put up ideas for changing to cleaner energy, namely nuclear reactors and clean coal plants. The new coal gasification plants such as GE builds can trap greenhouse gases as well as other pollutants so they are as clean as solar or wind energy, and they can be built close to the markets they serve so there is no need for hundreds of billions of dollars in new high capacity electric lines to carry energy from wind farms in the mid west to other places in the country and we don't have to wait for new batteries to be invented before putting these technologies into widespread use. Converting to coal gasification plants and nuclear energy would make the US energy independent for at least the next 200 years and would also benefit the environment, but it was a Republican plan, so it will never see the light of day in this Congress.

The difference between the Democrats and Republicans on health care is that the Republicans understand they have no good ideas on how to massively overhaul the health care system and the Democrats don't understand they don't have any good ideas on how to do it either. The House bill is an atrocity and polls show the American people know it. When there are no good ideas out there, sensible people in both parties will say, no, to the bad ones that are proposed.

If the Republicans are the party of no for now, then the Democrats are the party of false hopes, of broken promises, of wildly escalating debt and reckless spending. The House bill has no chance in the Senate, and if Pelosi manages to bully House Dems into voting for a bill that will make health insurance costs go up, taxes go up, the debt go up, business costs go and unemployment go up, those who vote for it will be punished at the polls by voters who have clearly indicated they don't want these things. According to Gallup, 2 out of three Americans doubt that Congress even understands health care issues. When voters go to the polls, are they going to vote for candidates who support things they oppose or are they going to vote for candidates who agree with them on these issues?

Not to mention that Jindal has outlined ideas for a healthcare proposal. And personally, I like Rush's plan better.......health insurance is to be for catastrophic purposes, only. The rest can be paid by the consumer, thereby dropping private sector costs.

The problem is, the Republican proposals are not getting much coverage by MSM. Only the Dems' proposals are being heard. Which can be an actual good thing because the more the public hears about Dem proposals, the less they are liking them.

 

[Newby]

Same thing as what happened to the smart Dems, Jill.

They got lost in a sea of stupid ones as the ___.N.C. leaderships pandered to the prejudices and confused thinking of the stupid in order to get their attention and their votes.

The winner of this process is the INDEPENDENTS but they are not organized, neither do these independents all agree on what needs be done.

Hence we have the case where the tail wags the dog because the dog doesn't have a single mind to stop it from happening.

I agree in part, but not in full. No question that there is a left wing of the dem party which isn't much brighter than the right wing of the repubs. I don't have a lot of use for them either. But the problems in the GOP go far deeper. There is a massive objection on the right to anyone who wants to work with the "other side" -- the whole RINO thing. I saw Lindsey Graham's frustration with it after the Sotomayor hearings. The fake and dangerous "populism"... the whole concept that anyone who disagrees with the radical right is "unamerican". You're smart, I don't need to explain it to you. You see it here every day.

Hmm.... what are the 'blue dogs'?? Funny how see all the problems on the other side of the aisle, but don't see the same issues on your own side, or act like the ones on your side aren't nearly as bad.