- Jan 8, 2007
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"Forgive me, if i seem off-topic, but I feel a huge percentage of the world acts as if, the state of israel just gave all the occupied territories back, then all terrorism would end, I may be saying it the wrong way. But my point is, With all current conflicts in the world that involve muslims, I doubt even if the jews packed up and left israel, Muslims aggression against the west would stop."
that may very well be true... However, I would postulate that if the nation of Israel was created in similar fashion in Texas, instead of where it is now, it would be texans being violent instead of pals. In fact, when I hear people in the mid east complain about israel it is not so much aggression because the percieved intruders are jewish but aggression because of a loss of land and resources in general. I would argue that if Israel were made up of all southern baptist American immigrants we would still see the same cycle of violence against southern baptists that have taken land to create a nation. Again, I think the term "terrorism" does little justice to the actual pattern of behaviour happening since it removes the necessity of understanding root causes and allows people to wash their hands of human consideration when, at the end of the day, EVERYONE will take whatever steps necessary to defend themselves in the face of percieved marginalization. Will nutjobs always lash out? yes. It happens accross the board. Can individuals rationalize THEIR side? yes, the US is the ONLY nation to ever USE a nuke, for christs sake. Hell, if China were to dip their fingers in North America and dictate a cultural standard different than our own we would react EXACTLY like those in the mid east are reacting to a percieved western invasion. So, in essene, I disagree. I think that if Israel were created out of EAST GERMANY rather than where it is the issue wouldnt be muslims... then the issue would be germans still.
"And my friend, the world seems to condemn israel, and not so much the palestinians, or simply do nothing as rwandans were butchered and darfor turns into the same."
With authority comes responsibility. Israel is nowhere close to similar to rwanda. I garentee that the day Israel gets invaded the west jumps right on into the conflict. No one did this for rwanda. So, as far as Im concerned Israel won't be going anywhere. Hell, im confident that Israeli leaders kow this already and such is the reason they make such mellowdramatic comments about Israel. Lets not forget that there ARE nations in the mid east where christians, jews and muslims do live in relative peace. The Christian population condmned the hell out of Israeli cluster bombs in lebenon last summer. I doubt if they would have done so if the general muslim population in a nation right next door is pawing their hands together hoping to whipe out Israel just to kill jews. Still, all the more reason to give pals a reason to have faith in Israel, yes? Did you see the message written in that Mohamed Ali quote above? I think there are drastic similarieties in motivation worth considering.
"Even going back to wwII, nobody gave a dam about the jews, nobody cared about the blacks for a long time, or about gypsys, gays, its a vicious cycle of the world doesnt care, its either to biased, or too apathetic."
Granted, it took pearl harbour to draw the US into ww2... but, again, this isnt the mid 20th century. I am confident that America would POUNCE on anyone who really tried to rush Israel. Again, Israel is not rwanda. However, I would suggest that there is something to be said for not creating enemies out of people who already feel pretty chaffed about half their land gone for the ske of a 2000 year old homeland.
"If your asking me, if i want the palestinians lives to be better, their economy improve, nobody starve, and every one have jobs, (its 12:13am, sorry if im not doing a good job of reading right now). Then of course, I am not saying all muslim are terrorists, but i dont need too, the muslim terrorists kill muslims too."
and, too, it seems that jewish terrorists burn down houses of jews that meet with iranians.. Im saying that the root cause that produced the Watts riots, the LA riots, etc are the same that causes pals to react. Also, I am asking if the killing off of a people over a long time span is less genocide than that which is quicker? This is a fundemental question to answer. If the answer is yes then the pals can be written off like the injuns.. if the answer is no, then Israel must make every effort to consider that behaviour is the result of their human condition and behave accordingly (ie, stop with the settlements, work with pals DEMOCRATICALLY elected leaders, drag the wall back to appropriate space, stop using any thin reason to marginalize the hell out of the POPULATION of pals, etc etc)
Eventually, even with democracy, the issueof the temple mount will come up. Might as well hash that out too.
that may very well be true... However, I would postulate that if the nation of Israel was created in similar fashion in Texas, instead of where it is now, it would be texans being violent instead of pals. In fact, when I hear people in the mid east complain about israel it is not so much aggression because the percieved intruders are jewish but aggression because of a loss of land and resources in general. I would argue that if Israel were made up of all southern baptist American immigrants we would still see the same cycle of violence against southern baptists that have taken land to create a nation. Again, I think the term "terrorism" does little justice to the actual pattern of behaviour happening since it removes the necessity of understanding root causes and allows people to wash their hands of human consideration when, at the end of the day, EVERYONE will take whatever steps necessary to defend themselves in the face of percieved marginalization. Will nutjobs always lash out? yes. It happens accross the board. Can individuals rationalize THEIR side? yes, the US is the ONLY nation to ever USE a nuke, for christs sake. Hell, if China were to dip their fingers in North America and dictate a cultural standard different than our own we would react EXACTLY like those in the mid east are reacting to a percieved western invasion. So, in essene, I disagree. I think that if Israel were created out of EAST GERMANY rather than where it is the issue wouldnt be muslims... then the issue would be germans still.
"And my friend, the world seems to condemn israel, and not so much the palestinians, or simply do nothing as rwandans were butchered and darfor turns into the same."
With authority comes responsibility. Israel is nowhere close to similar to rwanda. I garentee that the day Israel gets invaded the west jumps right on into the conflict. No one did this for rwanda. So, as far as Im concerned Israel won't be going anywhere. Hell, im confident that Israeli leaders kow this already and such is the reason they make such mellowdramatic comments about Israel. Lets not forget that there ARE nations in the mid east where christians, jews and muslims do live in relative peace. The Christian population condmned the hell out of Israeli cluster bombs in lebenon last summer. I doubt if they would have done so if the general muslim population in a nation right next door is pawing their hands together hoping to whipe out Israel just to kill jews. Still, all the more reason to give pals a reason to have faith in Israel, yes? Did you see the message written in that Mohamed Ali quote above? I think there are drastic similarieties in motivation worth considering.
"Even going back to wwII, nobody gave a dam about the jews, nobody cared about the blacks for a long time, or about gypsys, gays, its a vicious cycle of the world doesnt care, its either to biased, or too apathetic."
Granted, it took pearl harbour to draw the US into ww2... but, again, this isnt the mid 20th century. I am confident that America would POUNCE on anyone who really tried to rush Israel. Again, Israel is not rwanda. However, I would suggest that there is something to be said for not creating enemies out of people who already feel pretty chaffed about half their land gone for the ske of a 2000 year old homeland.
"If your asking me, if i want the palestinians lives to be better, their economy improve, nobody starve, and every one have jobs, (its 12:13am, sorry if im not doing a good job of reading right now). Then of course, I am not saying all muslim are terrorists, but i dont need too, the muslim terrorists kill muslims too."
and, too, it seems that jewish terrorists burn down houses of jews that meet with iranians.. Im saying that the root cause that produced the Watts riots, the LA riots, etc are the same that causes pals to react. Also, I am asking if the killing off of a people over a long time span is less genocide than that which is quicker? This is a fundemental question to answer. If the answer is yes then the pals can be written off like the injuns.. if the answer is no, then Israel must make every effort to consider that behaviour is the result of their human condition and behave accordingly (ie, stop with the settlements, work with pals DEMOCRATICALLY elected leaders, drag the wall back to appropriate space, stop using any thin reason to marginalize the hell out of the POPULATION of pals, etc etc)
Eventually, even with democracy, the issueof the temple mount will come up. Might as well hash that out too.
."
goofy so to speak. But i realize, if im going to ask for tolerance, I better dam well be tolerant of other, even if i cant stand what their saying, I can keep that part to myself, lol."
