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Zionism and Nazism: is there a difference that makes a difference?
- Thread starter u2scram
- Start date
- Dec 6, 2009
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The vast majority of Gazans were born on sovereign Israeli land but are not citizens.
You just make this bullshit up as you go along? The majority of Gazans were born in Gaza or elsewhere outside of Israel.
Gaza is not a sovereign Arab state, high school dropout. Gaza remains unallocated sovereign Israeli land under the terms of the binding Palestine Mandate. ~ Marc39
Your words.
Marc39
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- Jun 19, 2009
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- #63
The vast majority of Gazans were born on sovereign Israeli land but are not citizens.
You just make this bullshit up as you go along? The majority of Gazans were born in Gaza or elsewhere outside of Israel.
Gaza is not a sovereign Arab state, high school dropout. Gaza remains unallocated sovereign Israeli land under the terms of the binding Palestine Mandate. ~ Marc39
Your words.
Facts. Not exactly your strong-suit
- Dec 6, 2009
- 77,686
- 4,168
- 1,815
You just make this bullshit up as you go along? The majority of Gazans were born in Gaza or elsewhere outside of Israel.
Gaza is not a sovereign Arab state, high school dropout. Gaza remains unallocated sovereign Israeli land under the terms of the binding Palestine Mandate. ~ Marc39
Your words.
Facts. Not exactly your strong-suit
Definitely not when I use your quotes.
- Thread starter
- #66
COMMON SENSE & FACTS.
FACT 1 : It is self evident that no one has the right to take someone else’s land.
FACT 2 : That was an accepted practice in the colonial era of the 18th to 19th century. By the mid-20th century, it was not acceptable.
FACT 3 : Israel did not exist before 1948. Palestine did. That simple fact alone tells you were justice lies in this matter!
FACT 4 : “The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914, 535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews." (Encyclopaedia Britannica).
FACT 5 : There was no substantial Jewish population until after ww2 when Jews were 'imported'. Often wealthy Zionists financed them. Wealthy Zionists who incidentally, decided to remain were they where!
FACT 6 : The Chinese have used similar tactics, massive immigration, to subjugate Tibet, a similar crime against humanity.
FACT 7 : Ancient history is irrelevant. Modern history is not.
To claim someone else’s land because your ancestors once lived there is merely unreasonable. However, to claim it because god gave it to you is insane.
FACT 8 : Modern Zionism is based upon religious fundamentalism and racism. Anyone who supports these policies must exist in a religious fantasy camp, were seizing the lands of others is a god-given right and anyone who attempts to recover their own land is a terrorist.
Eventually, the Israelis must come to terms with their criminal actions in Palestine.
If they do this, and establish some kind of 'Truth Commission' to address the injustices that the Palestinians have endured, I believe that they will find a new basis for discussion with the Palestinians, and that a single state solution will be a possibility, with some kind of reconciliation with the Palestinians, who have suffered so much at the hands of the brutal Zionist regime since the occupation began. The brutal nature of the Zionist regime is obvious too all who are not either racists or religious fundamentalists.
FACT 1 : It is self evident that no one has the right to take someone else’s land.
FACT 2 : That was an accepted practice in the colonial era of the 18th to 19th century. By the mid-20th century, it was not acceptable.
FACT 3 : Israel did not exist before 1948. Palestine did. That simple fact alone tells you were justice lies in this matter!
FACT 4 : “The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914, 535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews." (Encyclopaedia Britannica).
FACT 5 : There was no substantial Jewish population until after ww2 when Jews were 'imported'. Often wealthy Zionists financed them. Wealthy Zionists who incidentally, decided to remain were they where!
FACT 6 : The Chinese have used similar tactics, massive immigration, to subjugate Tibet, a similar crime against humanity.
FACT 7 : Ancient history is irrelevant. Modern history is not.
To claim someone else’s land because your ancestors once lived there is merely unreasonable. However, to claim it because god gave it to you is insane.
FACT 8 : Modern Zionism is based upon religious fundamentalism and racism. Anyone who supports these policies must exist in a religious fantasy camp, were seizing the lands of others is a god-given right and anyone who attempts to recover their own land is a terrorist.
Eventually, the Israelis must come to terms with their criminal actions in Palestine.
If they do this, and establish some kind of 'Truth Commission' to address the injustices that the Palestinians have endured, I believe that they will find a new basis for discussion with the Palestinians, and that a single state solution will be a possibility, with some kind of reconciliation with the Palestinians, who have suffered so much at the hands of the brutal Zionist regime since the occupation began. The brutal nature of the Zionist regime is obvious too all who are not either racists or religious fundamentalists.
Marc39
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- #67
COMMON SENSE & FACTS.
FACT 1 : t is self evident that no one has the right to take someone else’s land.
Fact 2: Muslims took Jews' and Christians' land throughout the predominanlty Jewish and Christian Middle East. The Muhammadan also took Spain, Portugal, Italy and Afghanistan, among others' countries.
Read, learn, dimwit...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests
Fact 2, Palestine is the historic homeland of the Jews. Arabs are interlopers who originated from Arabia.
The League of Nations agreed...
Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country
Allah agrees...
Quran 5:20-21...
Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.
Barack Obama agrees...:
Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White HouseIsrael is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.
It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States. The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice
Winston Churchill agreed...:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Jews-Friendship-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805078800]Amazon.com: Churchill and the Jews: A Lifelong Friendship (9780805078800): Martin Gilbert: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it
The US Congress agrees...
The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688123635/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0688123627&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HX00TRZAFXPP1PG6MNR]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.
Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.
A perusal of Jewish history, a reading of Josephus, will convince the most skeptical that the grandest fight that was ever put up against an enemy was put up by the Jew. He never thought of leaving Palestine. But he was driven out. But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back? Jewish history and Jewish literature give the answer to the question. The Jew even has a fast day devoted to the day of destruction of the Jewish homeland.
Never throughout history did they give up hope of returning there. I am told that 90 per cent of the Jews today are praying for the return of the Jewish people to its own home. The best minds among them believe in the necessity of reestablishing their Jewish land. To my mind there is something prophetic in the fact that during the ages no other nation has taken over Palestine and held it in the sense of a homeland; and there is something providential in the fact that for 1,800 years it has remained in desolation as if waiting for the return of the people.
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If Gaza is sovereign unallocated Israeli land, does that mean her inhabitants remain unallocated citizens of Israel under the binding Palestine Mandate?You just make this bullshit up as you go along? The majority of Gazans were born in Gaza or elsewhere outside of Israel.
Gaza is not a sovereign Arab state, high school dropout. Gaza remains unallocated sovereign Israeli land under the terms of the binding Palestine Mandate. ~ Marc39
Your words.
Facts. Not exactly your strong-suit
How much profit do you personally earn from the misery of Gaza?
Anti-Semitism has proven to be an adaptive phenomenon. New forms of anti-Semitism have
evolved. They often incorporate elements of traditional anti-Semitism. However, the distinguishing
feature of the new anti-Semitism is criticism of Zionism or Israeli policy that—whether intentionally
or unintentionally—has the effect of promoting prejudice against all Jews by demonizing Israel and
Israelis and attributing Israel’s perceived faults to its Jewish character.
This new anti-Semitism is common throughout the Middle East and in Muslim communities in
Europe, but it is not confined to these populations. For example, various United Nations bodies are
asked each year on multiple occasions to commission investigations of what often are sensational-
ized reports of alleged atrocities and other violations of human rights by Israel. Various bodies have
been set up within the UN system with the sole purpose of reporting on what is assumed to be on-
going, abusive Israeli behavior. The motive for such actions may be to defuse an immediate crisis, to
show others in the Middle East that there are credible means of addressing their concerns other than
resorting to violence, or to pursue other legitimate ends. But the collective effect of unremitting
criticism of Israel, coupled with a failure to pay attention to regimes that are demonstrably guilty of
grave violations, has the effect of reinforcing the notion that the Jewish state is one of the sources,
if not the greatest source, of abuse of the rights of others, and thus intentionally or not encourages
anti-Semitism.
Comparing contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis is increasingly commonplace. Anti-
Semitism couched as criticism of Zionism or Israel often escapes condemnation since it can be more
subtle than traditional forms of anti-Semitism, and promoting anti-Semitic attitudes may not be the
conscious intent of the purveyor. Israel’s policies and practices must be subject to responsible criti-
cism and scrutiny to the same degree as those of any other country. At the same time, those criticiz-
ing Israel have a responsibility to consider the effect their actions may have in prompting hatred of
Jews. At times hostility toward Israel has translated into physical violence directed at Jews in gener-
al. There was, for example, a sharp upsurge in anti-Semitic incidents worldwide during the conflict
between Hizballah and Israel in the summer of 2006.3
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/102301.pdf
What about Israel's "Founding Fathers" communications with Hitler and Mussolini?
"The Nazi era is the most discussed period in history, yet most Jews and others are unaware of the interaction between Zionism, Hitler and Mussolini.
"This book brings to light, through the use of actual historic documents, the disservice that the Zionists did to Jews before and during the Holocaust. Some of these documents were published in English decades ago, but are only now seeing the light of day."
Is it "anti-Semitic" to question why principal architects of the Jewish State of Israel apparently offered to side with Hitler during WWII in order to facilitate the British withdrawal from Palestine?
The Plot
"The Nazi era is the most discussed period in history, yet most Jews and others are unaware of the interaction between Zionism, Hitler and Mussolini.
"This book brings to light, through the use of actual historic documents, the disservice that the Zionists did to Jews before and during the Holocaust. Some of these documents were published in English decades ago, but are only now seeing the light of day."
Is it "anti-Semitic" to question why principal architects of the Jewish State of Israel apparently offered to side with Hitler during WWII in order to facilitate the British withdrawal from Palestine?
The Plot
hipeter924
Not a zombie yet
What about Israel's "Founding Fathers" communications with Hitler and Mussolini?
"The Nazi era is the most discussed period in history, yet most Jews and others are unaware of the interaction between Zionism, Hitler and Mussolini.
"This book brings to light, through the use of actual historic documents, the disservice that the Zionists did to Jews before and during the Holocaust. Some of these documents were published in English decades ago, but are only now seeing the light of day."
Is it "anti-Semitic" to question why principal architects of the Jewish State of Israel apparently offered to side with Hitler during WWII in order to facilitate the British withdrawal from Palestine?
The Plot
For a few months in 1953 Noam Chomsky and his wife lived on a kibbutz in Israel where there was little food and much hard work.
"I came close to returning there to live, as my wife very much wanted to do at the time. I had nothing particularly attractive here.
"I didn't expect to be able to have an academic career, and was not particularly interested in one. There was no major drive to stay.
"On the other hand, I did have a lot of interest in the kibbutz and I liked it very much when I was there.
"But there were things I didn't like, too.
"In particular, the ideological conformity was appalling.
"I don't know if I could have survived long in that environment because I was very strongly opposed to the Leninist ideology, as well as the general conformism, and uneasy -- less so than I should have been -- about the the exclusiveness and the racist institutional setting.
"What I did not then face honestly was the fairly obvious fact that these are Jewish institutions and are so because of legal and administrative structures and practice.
"So, for example, I doubt if there's an Arab in any kibbutz, and there hardly could be, because of the land laws and the role the institution plays in the Israeli system.
"In fact, even the Oriental Jews, some of whom were marginally at the kibbutz or in the immigrant town nearby, were treated rather shabbily, with a good deal of contempt and fear.
"I also visited some Arab villages, and learned some unpleasant things, which I've never seen in print, about the military administration to which Arab citizens were subjected."
Personal Influences
"I came close to returning there to live, as my wife very much wanted to do at the time. I had nothing particularly attractive here.
"I didn't expect to be able to have an academic career, and was not particularly interested in one. There was no major drive to stay.
"On the other hand, I did have a lot of interest in the kibbutz and I liked it very much when I was there.
"But there were things I didn't like, too.
"In particular, the ideological conformity was appalling.
"I don't know if I could have survived long in that environment because I was very strongly opposed to the Leninist ideology, as well as the general conformism, and uneasy -- less so than I should have been -- about the the exclusiveness and the racist institutional setting.
"What I did not then face honestly was the fairly obvious fact that these are Jewish institutions and are so because of legal and administrative structures and practice.
"So, for example, I doubt if there's an Arab in any kibbutz, and there hardly could be, because of the land laws and the role the institution plays in the Israeli system.
"In fact, even the Oriental Jews, some of whom were marginally at the kibbutz or in the immigrant town nearby, were treated rather shabbily, with a good deal of contempt and fear.
"I also visited some Arab villages, and learned some unpleasant things, which I've never seen in print, about the military administration to which Arab citizens were subjected."
Personal Influences
Marc39
Rookie
- Jun 19, 2009
- 10,018
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- #73
For a few months in 1953 Noam Chomsky and his wife lived on a kibbutz in Israel where there was little food and much hard work.
"I came close to returning there to live, as my wife very much wanted to do at the time. I had nothing particularly attractive here.
"I didn't expect to be able to have an academic career, and was not particularly interested in one. There was no major drive to stay.
"On the other hand, I did have a lot of interest in the kibbutz and I liked it very much when I was there.
"But there were things I didn't like, too.
"In particular, the ideological conformity was appalling.
"I don't know if I could have survived long in that environment because I was very strongly opposed to the Leninist ideology, as well as the general conformism, and uneasy -- less so than I should have been -- about the the exclusiveness and the racist institutional setting.
"What I did not then face honestly was the fairly obvious fact that these are Jewish institutions and are so because of legal and administrative structures and practice.
"So, for example, I doubt if there's an Arab in any kibbutz, and there hardly could be, because of the land laws and the role the institution plays in the Israeli system.
"In fact, even the Oriental Jews, some of whom were marginally at the kibbutz or in the immigrant town nearby, were treated rather shabbily, with a good deal of contempt and fear.
"I also visited some Arab villages, and learned some unpleasant things, which I've never seen in print, about the military administration to which Arab citizens were subjected."
Personal Influences
Noam Chomsky the language teacher?
Noam Chomsky the 8th most quoted author of all time.
Marc39
Rookie
- Jun 19, 2009
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- #77
If Gaza is sovereign unallocated Israeli land, does that mean her inhabitants remain unallocated citizens of Israel under the binding Palestine Mandate?Your words.
Facts. Not exactly your strong-suit
How much profit do you personally earn from the misery of Gaza?
You're not the brightest bulb. Gazans are squatters on Israeli land.
- Thread starter
- #78
zionism = nazism
long after ww2 the zionists were allying themselves with nazis. this time it was the apartheid state of s.africa, with which modern 'israel' has much in common.
Brothers in arms - Israel's secret pact with Pretoria
Brothers in arms - Israel's secret pact with Pretoria | World news | The Guardian
"During the second world war the future South African prime minister John Vorster was interned as a Nazi sympathiser. Three decades later he was being feted in Jerusalem. In the second part of his remarkable special report, Chris McGreal investigates the clandestine alliance between Israel and the apartheid regime, cemented with the ultimate gift of friendship - A-bomb technology."
South Africa's prime minister John Vorster (second from right) is feted by Israel's prime minister Yitzhak Rabin (right) and Menachem Begin (left) and Moshe Dayan during his 1976 visit to Jerusalem. Photograph: Sa'ar Ya'acov
long after ww2 the zionists were allying themselves with nazis. this time it was the apartheid state of s.africa, with which modern 'israel' has much in common.
Brothers in arms - Israel's secret pact with Pretoria
Brothers in arms - Israel's secret pact with Pretoria | World news | The Guardian
"During the second world war the future South African prime minister John Vorster was interned as a Nazi sympathiser. Three decades later he was being feted in Jerusalem. In the second part of his remarkable special report, Chris McGreal investigates the clandestine alliance between Israel and the apartheid regime, cemented with the ultimate gift of friendship - A-bomb technology."
South Africa's prime minister John Vorster (second from right) is feted by Israel's prime minister Yitzhak Rabin (right) and Menachem Begin (left) and Moshe Dayan during his 1976 visit to Jerusalem. Photograph: Sa'ar Ya'acov
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Marc39
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- Jun 19, 2009
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- #79
zionism = nazism
Equating Zionism and Nazism constitutes anti-Semitism under US and EU guidelines.
Keep your mental illness to yourself.
US Department of State
Contemporary Global Anti-Semitism:A Report Provided to the United States Congress
Anti-Semitism is one of the oldest forms of malicious intolerance and violates the precepts of human dignity and equality that are fundamental to a free and peaceful society.
History has shown that wherever anti-Semitism has gone unchecked, the persecution of others has been present or not far behind.
Defeating anti-Semitism must be a cause of great importance not only for Jews, but for all people who value humanity and justice and want to live in a more tolerant, peaceful world. Together, we must continue our efforts to monitor and combat anti-Semitism in all of its forms wherever and whenever it occurs.
Forms of Anti-Semitism
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Contemporary Global Anti-Semitism:A Report Provided to the United States Congress
EUMC...
Examples of the ways in which antiSemitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel, drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, eg, by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor.
FRA - European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights
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