Zakaria: Gingrich vrs Romney Fight is Birth of New GOP

[JimBowie1958]

Zakaria: The rebirth of the Republican Party? – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

Power has shifted to the South and West. The energy of the Republican Party has moved away from the coasts and the big cities. Power has also shifted away from the proverbial smoke-filled rooms to the grassroots. The forces that represented the establishment in the Republican Party - the big corporations and the banks - are much weaker. The forces that are strong today are Christian conservatives, libertarian activists and other more diverse, populist groups. These groups have always existed but before now they were directed by the coastal elites. Not anymore. The Tea Party represents the dramatic acceleration of these forces.

These forces elevated Rick Perry and Herman Cain before the candidates petered out. Now their enthusiasm is propelling Newt Gingrich. Today, you can see the split between the old, hierarchical Republican Party and the new party in the contest between Gingrich and Romney.

Gingrich - partly because he knows how to speak to them - has been able to energize the grassroots base of the Republican Party. All Romney has going for him is the traditional establishment of the party that says, “Look, this guy is sensible; he’ll play well in the general election; he’s a good manager.” He is the unthreatening candidate they can agree on. In the past that would have been enough. But you have a new Republican party that is driven much more by the new centers of power in the South and the Southwest and much less by the old establishment.

If Gingrich does win the nomination, it is not just the story of one guy doing well; it is the story of a very different Republican Party than the one we have been familiar with for the last 30 or 40 years.

I think Zakaria, untypically, has nailed this one. Bsically what we are seeing in this election is a Tea Party Spring uprising powered by a large number of small donations and volunteer time and effort, and all guided by a consensus reached in meeting set up or conducted on the internet. The whole reason the old party hierarchies exist is because in the pre-internet days you needed such structures to bring people together, to pool resources, and act as the brain of a mass organization. We dont need that nearly so much any more and I suspect we will need it ever less as time goes on.

What Zakaria is seeing in the GOP is similar to what happened with the Arab Spring, the initial OWS, and pro-democracy movements in Russia.

Power is shifting quite strongly from cadres of leadership to lower levels of local groups who can decide who and what they want to support, and this is happening across all groups to one extent or another. But it is happening most clearly in groups where the lower ranks have been led in a direction they do not prefer in the past and there has been too much concentration of decision making at the top and little input from the lower ranks.

I get the feeling that the new boss wont be the same as the old boss any more.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Gingrich and Romney are the rebirth of the Republican Party? Who the f*ck would think that?

Oh ok, Fareed Zakaria. Nevermind.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Gingrich and Romney are the rebirth of the Republican Party? Who the f*ck would think that?

Oh ok, Fareed Zakaria. Nevermind.

You didnt read the co.umn too carefully, it would seem.

It isnt Gingrich and Romney, but the contest between them and who is backing them.

I know Gingrich has been a Washington insider for decades, but he does not have the support of the GOP establishment and that is Zakaria's distinction between the two.

That Paul is doing as well as he is is another indicator, but in this case the GOP establishment is using Paul to split Romney's opposition. But that opposition is so broad and Romney's support so narrow that even a three way split among Tea Party rank and file can produce a successful opposition to Romney's christening.

One might think that Paul supporters would support this, but for many of them the personality cult for Paul is so strong they cant support anyone else but their Messiah. People sense this and recoil from it once they have interacted much with Paul supporters.

 

[JoeB131]

The Republican Party has always been a coalition. So have the Democrats.

In the case of the GOP, the coalition has been made up of industrialists, small businessmen, libertarians, religious folks and people who are for a strong national defense.

The problem is that the establishment in Washington and Wall Street are trying to impose Romney on the rank and file which pretty clearly doesn't want him.

Newt has risen to the point where he is at because right now, he is the most credible "Not Romney" out there. Not because he has struck some great idealogical chord.

That should be a signal to the GOP Establishment that Romney is a horrible pick, and they need to cease and desist, immediately, and find a credible alternative. Rick Perry could have been that guy, but a combination of his own stumbles and the Bush family's backroom machinations have put the kaybosh on that.

I think Romney will probably be the nominee, but he will lose badly to Obama because honest, if Republicans can't get excited about him, how is anyone else going to?

 

[Mad Scientist]

Gingrich and Romney are the rebirth of the Republican Party? Who the f*ck would think that?

Oh ok, Fareed Zakaria. Nevermind.

You didnt read the co.umn too carefully, it would seem.

It isnt Gingrich and Romney, but the contest between them and who is backing them.

From the article:

The forces that represented the establishment in the Republican Party - the big corporations and the banks - are much weaker.

Bullshit! Both parties are owned by International Bankers, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan. Gingrich and Romney are Globalists. That means open borders, loss of sovereignty, low standard of living, global governance and global carbon taxes. And just who is at the top of this "Global Governance"? Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan. Bankers have bankrolled every nasty dictator in the worlds history, it's how they operate. Look at who controls Obama's administration: Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan execs.

Look up "Globalists" if you don't believe me.

Again, Fareed Zacharia is either a shill or he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Cammmpbell]

The Republican Party has always been a coalition. So have the Democrats.

In the case of the GOP, the coalition has been made up of industrialists, small businessmen, libertarians, religious folks and people who are for a strong national defense.

The problem is that the establishment in Washington and Wall Street are trying to impose Romney on the rank and file which pretty clearly doesn't want him.

Newt has risen to the point where he is at because right now, he is the most credible "Not Romney" out there. Not because he has struck some great idealogical chord.

That should be a signal to the GOP Establishment that Romney is a horrible pick, and they need to cease and desist, immediately, and find a credible alternative. Rick Perry could have been that guy, but a combination of his own stumbles and the Bush family's backroom machinations have put the kaybosh on that.

I think Romney will probably be the nominee, but he will lose badly to Obama because honest, if Republicans can't get excited about him, how is anyone else going to?

I just love what Barney Fife.....er, Frank said. "I Must Have Done Something Right During My Lifetime To Be Handed Newt Gingrich As The Republican Presidential Nominee On My Way Out!"

 

[Mad Scientist]

One might think that Paul supporters would support this, but for many of them the personality cult for Paul is so strong they cant support anyone else but their Messiah. People sense this and recoil from it once they have interacted much with Paul supporters.

"Cult"? "Messiah"? That would be Obama supporters who voted for him merely because he is Black and isn't Bush!

Go to Ron Pauls' website. Look around, then come back here and tell us what makes you "recoil" from it.
Ron Paul 2012 Official Campaign Website

 

[JimBowie1958]

The Republican Party has always been a coalition. So have the Democrats.

In the case of the GOP, the coalition has been made up of industrialists, small businessmen, libertarians, religious folks and people who are for a strong national defense.

That coalition worked because the first two gave the financial backing, the last three gave the broad themes to the party; liberty, traditional morality and national security.

But lately the industrialists and financiers, who have always reflected the common values of the popular culture, are turned off by the traditional morality issues. They consider them too controversial and a distraction from their main issues: reducing the three boogeymen of taxes, government oversight, and economic populism.

But a huge majority of the GOP rack and file are traditional morality voters, and the GOP cant win without them.

The problem is that the establishment in Washington and Wall Street are trying to impose Romney on the rank and file which pretty clearly doesn't want him.

And in the past they would have had no problem, but that was pre-2010 and the Tea Party revolution.

Newt has risen to the point where he is at because right now, he is the most credible "Not Romney" out there. Not because he has struck some great idealogical chord.

I dont know about striking chords, but Newt is conservative in all subjects and Romney conservative on all of them but questionable on matters of traditional morality. The latter is why the party hierarchy likes hima nd why the rank and file do not.

That should be a signal to the GOP Establishment that Romney is a horrible pick, and they need to cease and desist, immediately, and find a credible alternative. Rick Perry could have been that guy, but a combination of his own stumbles and the Bush family's backroom machinations have put the kaybosh on that.

I think Perry would have been a great pick, if he would only take some coaching and be a little more smooth. I think he has acquired that, but its too late for this election.

I think Romney will probably be the nominee, but he will lose badly to Obama because honest, if Republicans can't get excited about him, how is anyone else going to?

I dont think Romney will get the nomination. Ron Paul will get it before he does.

 

[JWBooth]

Zakaria: The rebirth of the Republican Party? – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs

Power has shifted to the South and West. The energy of the Republican Party has moved away from the coasts and the big cities. Power has also shifted away from the proverbial smoke-filled rooms to the grassroots. The forces that represented the establishment in the Republican Party - the big corporations and the banks - are much weaker. The forces that are strong today are Christian conservatives, libertarian activists and other more diverse, populist groups. These groups have always existed but before now they were directed by the coastal elites. Not anymore. The Tea Party represents the dramatic acceleration of these forces.

These forces elevated Rick Perry and Herman Cain before the candidates petered out. Now their enthusiasm is propelling Newt Gingrich. Today, you can see the split between the old, hierarchical Republican Party and the new party in the contest between Gingrich and Romney.

Gingrich - partly because he knows how to speak to them - has been able to energize the grassroots base of the Republican Party. All Romney has going for him is the traditional establishment of the party that says, “Look, this guy is sensible; he’ll play well in the general election; he’s a good manager.” He is the unthreatening candidate they can agree on. In the past that would have been enough. But you have a new Republican party that is driven much more by the new centers of power in the South and the Southwest and much less by the old establishment.

If Gingrich does win the nomination, it is not just the story of one guy doing well; it is the story of a very different Republican Party than the one we have been familiar with for the last 30 or 40 years.

I think Zakaria, untypically, has nailed this one. Bsically what we are seeing in this election is a Tea Party Spring uprising powered by a large number of small donations and volunteer time and effort, and all guided by a consensus reached in meeting set up or conducted on the internet. The whole reason the old party hierarchies exist is because in the pre-internet days you needed such structures to bring people together, to pool resources, and act as the brain of a mass organization. We dont need that nearly so much any more and I suspect we will need it ever less as time goes on.

What Zakaria is seeing in the GOP is similar to what happened with the Arab Spring, the initial OWS, and pro-democracy movements in Russia.

Power is shifting quite strongly from cadres of leadership to lower levels of local groups who can decide who and what they want to support, and this is happening across all groups to one extent or another. But it is happening most clearly in groups where the lower ranks have been led in a direction they do not prefer in the past and there has been too much concentration of decision making at the top and little input from the lower ranks.

I get the feeling that the new boss wont be the same as the old boss any more.

Nonsense, Romney and Gingreich are bought and paid for shills of the same old GOPer establishment.

 

[Cammmpbell]

One might think that Paul supporters would support this, but for many of them the personality cult for Paul is so strong they cant support anyone else but their Messiah. People sense this and recoil from it once they have interacted much with Paul supporters.

"Cult"? "Messiah"? That would be Obama supporters who voted for him merely because he is Black and isn't Bush!

Go to Ron Pauls' website. Look around, then come back here and tell us what makes you "recoil" from it.
Ron Paul 2012 Official Campaign Website

The GOP is really gonna look bad after Boehnor and McConnel saying that their number one priority in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression was to ensure that Obama would be denied a second term. If Gingrich is the nominee the Republicans will get their asses kicked in every swing state in this great republic.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I know Gingrich has been a Washington insider for decades, but he does not have the support of the GOP establishment and that is Zakaria's distinction between the two.

Everyone understands that but the point is will made as to the notion that Gingrich would be the ‘ideal’ TPM candidate, or that this shift from the corporate elite to the ‘grassroots’ of the TPM is somehow done with their approval – Gingrich represents everything the TPM hates about American politics on the National level.

It’s quite likely a significant number of TPM members are just as unhappy with Gingrich as Romany. Some may be a tad less hostile to Gingrich, but this is not how the TPM envisioned the 2012 primary to be.

 

[JoeB131]

The GOP is really gonna look bad after Boehnor and McConnel saying that their number one priority in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression was to ensure that Obama would be denied a second term. If Gingrich is the nominee the Republicans will get their asses kicked in every swing state in this great republic.

Guy. It's Obama's economy. Not Gingrich, Romney, Boehner or McConnel. Not even Bush's at this point.

Eitther it will recover just enough for him to say we've turned the corner, or it will be shitty and they'll broom his ass out the door.

 

[JoeB131]

I know Gingrich has been a Washington insider for decades, but he does not have the support of the GOP establishment and that is Zakaria's distinction between the two.

Everyone understands that but the point is will made as to the notion that Gingrich would be the ‘ideal’ TPM candidate, or that this shift from the corporate elite to the ‘grassroots’ of the TPM is somehow done with their approval – Gingrich represents everything the TPM hates about American politics on the National level.

It’s quite likely a significant number of TPM members are just as unhappy with Gingrich as Romany. Some may be a tad less hostile to Gingrich, but this is not how the TPM envisioned the 2012 primary to be.

True enough. But here's the thing. the TPM has really only been around for about two years and some change at this point. You don't change the orientation of party overnight.

I think that Newt is more popular with the TPM movement because he seems like he's ready to have a real fight with Obama, as opposed to Romney, who looks like he's ready to sit down and have one of the few beverages that aren't prohibted by the Book of MOrmon with him.

 

[JoeB131]

The Republican Party has always been a coalition. So have the Democrats.

In the case of the GOP, the coalition has been made up of industrialists, small businessmen, libertarians, religious folks and people who are for a strong national defense.

That coalition worked because the first two gave the financial backing, the last three gave the broad themes to the party; liberty, traditional morality and national security.

But lately the industrialists and financiers, who have always reflected the common values of the popular culture, are turned off by the traditional morality issues. They consider them too controversial and a distraction from their main issues: reducing the three boogeymen of taxes, government oversight, and economic populism.

I'm going to go a bit further. I think they've never been for the social conservative issues. They just see them as a way to get people worked up and in some cases, voting against their own economic interests.

Which is why these middle class "Reagan Democrats" from catholic neighborhoods like the one I grew up in are finding abortion is still legal AND their job got sent to China in a trade treaty they never agreed to.

And in the past they would have had no problem, but that was pre-2010 and the Tea Party revolution.

Actually, their love for Romney strikes me as being bizarre. Yes, in the past, they've put their finger on the scale to help an establishment figure (McCain, Dole) beat an insurgent (Huckabee, Buchanan) who scared the hell out of them. But this time, they seem intent on destroying ANYONE who poses a threat to Romney.

I dont know about striking chords, but Newt is conservative in all subjects and Romney conservative on all of them but questionable on matters of traditional morality. The latter is why the party hierarchy likes hima nd why the rank and file do not.

Well, I see it a tad differently. I think that there are a lot of reasons the rank and file don't like him. His religion is one of them. Mormons are pretty conservative, but they also have beliefs that are flat out strange. Another is that he has flip-flopped on nearly every issue out there. I think he lacks empathy, having never endured any kind of hardship in his life.

I think Perry would have been a great pick, if he would only take some coaching and be a little more smooth. I think he has acquired that, but its too late for this election.

I agree. He really half-assed it. Maybe he'll learn his lesson and be back in 2016 AFTER Romney loses badly.

I dont think Romney will get the nomination. Ron Paul will get it before he does.

I think the only one who has any reasonable chance of stopping Romney is Newt. Maybe Perry if he gets a second look.

 

[Cammmpbell]

The Republican Party has always been a coalition. So have the Democrats.

In the case of the GOP, the coalition has been made up of industrialists, small businessmen, libertarians, religious folks and people who are for a strong national defense.

That coalition worked because the first two gave the financial backing, the last three gave the broad themes to the party; liberty, traditional morality and national security.

But lately the industrialists and financiers, who have always reflected the common values of the popular culture, are turned off by the traditional morality issues. They consider them too controversial and a distraction from their main issues: reducing the three boogeymen of taxes, government oversight, and economic populism.

I'm going to go a bit further. I think they've never been for the social conservative issues. They just see them as a way to get people worked up and in some cases, voting against their own economic interests.

Which is why these middle class "Reagan Democrats" from catholic neighborhoods like the one I grew up in are finding abortion is still legal AND their job got sent to China in a trade treaty they never agreed to.



Actually, their love for Romney strikes me as being bizarre. Yes, in the past, they've put their finger on the scale to help an establishment figure (McCain, Dole) beat an insurgent (Huckabee, Buchanan) who scared the hell out of them. But this time, they seem intent on destroying ANYONE who poses a threat to Romney.




Well, I see it a tad differently. I think that there are a lot of reasons the rank and file don't like him. His religion is one of them. Mormons are pretty conservative, but they also have beliefs that are flat out strange. Another is that he has flip-flopped on nearly every issue out there. I think he lacks empathy, having never endured any kind of hardship in his life.

I think Perry would have been a great pick, if he would only take some coaching and be a little more smooth. I think he has acquired that, but its too late for this election.

I agree. He really half-assed it. Maybe he'll learn his lesson and be back in 2016 AFTER Romney loses badly.

I dont think Romney will get the nomination. Ron Paul will get it before he does.

I think the only one who has any reasonable chance of stopping Romney is Newt. Maybe Perry if he gets a second look.

Let's hope that Michelle Bachman gets the nod before Rick Perry. That's all this country needs....another half illiterate, bible thumping Texas cowboy with his eye on big oil.

 

[whitehall]

"Smoke filled rooms" is a cliche. What the GOP is going through is the process the Founding Fathers established. If any political party went through a "rebirth" at least on the surface it's the shocking democrat party transition from moderate liberals under JFK to radical socialists under Barry Obama.

 

[Cammmpbell]

"Smoke filled rooms" is a cliche. What the GOP is going through is the process the Founding Fathers established. If any political party went through a "rebirth" at least on the surface it's the shocking democrat party transition from moderate liberals under JFK to radical socialists under Barry Obama.

Radical socialist......a couple of things folks really need to wrap their minds around. George W. Bush assumed a balanced annual budget with surpluses projected all the way to the outyears.

He cut taxes twice using reconciliation to block Democratic oppostion, began to borrow from Communist Chinese banks for the first time in this country's history funneling borrowed money into the hands of the richest people in the country through those low rates. He doubled the national debt from $5.7 trillion to nearly $12 trillion and funded his war of choice in Iraq off budget.

With no government oversite the Wall St. crowd leveraged worthless mortgages to levels far exceeding any normal transactions in our past and absolutely created the worst recession since the great depression. Bush, Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke engineered a gift to the banks of $800 billion with absolutely no specification as to how it had to be used. Bankers never missed a bonus or a lavish conference to exotic locations.

When Obama took over he was held to Bush's final budget intil October 1, 2009. At that time his first year's interest on the Reagan-Bushes debt was $450 billion. He also announced that he would no longer play tricks with the supplemental funding of the war off budget so immediately he had three quarters of a trillion dollars of expense left to him by the previous arrangements and the Republicans began to scream deficit hawk like there was no tomorrow. For the last two years all the Republicans in the congress have done is anything they could to make Obama look bad.

Now....about the health care. Theodore Roosevelt proposed a national health care program and several presidents since then have left a fingerprint on the basic idea. The Republicans oppose anything now which might interrupt astronomical bottom line profits for more than 500 companies which are getting well off of the nation's sick people while we still rank 37th in the world concerning general health and longevity.

I'll vote for Obama again even though here in Tennessee it's a joke. The eleven electoral votes from here will go to a Republican even if it's a loud mouthed yellow bitch coon dog.

 

[JimBowie1958]

One might think that Paul supporters would support this, but for many of them the personality cult for Paul is so strong they cant support anyone else but their Messiah. People sense this and recoil from it once they have interacted much with Paul supporters.

"Cult"? "Messiah"? That would be Obama supporters who voted for him merely because he is Black and isn't Bush!

Go to Ron Pauls' website. Look around, then come back here and tell us what makes you "recoil" from it.
Ron Paul 2012 Official Campaign Website

I am quite familiar with Paul and agree with most of what he says.

But I consider all the current candidates except for Huntsman to be conservative, with Romney being the most milquetoast of the group.

Those who simply cannot accept any candidate other than one person and one person alone who can save this nation are being similar to those in a cult of personality, and that is creepy to most people.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Nonsense, Romney and Gingreich are bought and paid for shills of the same old GOPer establishment.

Then why dont they support him? Why is all their support going to Romney?

There is a difference between the two men even though none of them are named 'Ron Paul'.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The GOP is really gonna look bad after Boehnor and McConnel saying that their number one priority in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression was to ensure that Obama would be denied a second term. If Gingrich is the nominee the Republicans will get their asses kicked in every swing state in this great republic.

That is impossible to know at this stage of the election.

What, you got a red phone line direct to God or something?