Yurt v Dante

[Procrustes Stretched]

Hello? Yurt?

 

[Yurt]

hi dante

 

[Yurt]

marijuana should not be classified as a schedule 1 drug at the federal level.

under the 10th, the states should decide whether it should be legalized. that said, the federal government should have no power to prosecute any person, who is state compliant, with violating federal drug laws regarding marijuana.

your turn

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You wanted a debate about the legalization of pot. You mentioned state and federal levels. Dante.,,let me stop that...

I am for decriminalization on the state and federal levels. I see no reason to use it to grow the tax base or allow a select few to become incredibly wealthy while bringing corruption off teh streets and into government.

I suppose you are for legalization?

 

[Yurt]

decriminalization still allows the state or federal government to have control over marijuana. nothing short of legalization will work. think prohibition, how did that work out?

as to taxes, if marijuana is legalized, tax it just like alcohol or cigarettes. how has that worked out for state and federal governments? answer...very well. instead of spending millions or billions (state or federal) on prosecuting, housing "offenders", why not tax it? use that money to educate people about it, lower our prison population, which btw, is the highest in the world, and use the tax money more wisely?

and yes, i am for full legalization of marijuana. it is less harmful than alcohol, yet, the drug, alcohol is legal.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If you wanted a debate about states rights you should have been more clear. Are you high on dope now?

 

[Yurt]

i have to go soon, so if i don't reply, i will tomorrow. good start to the bullring dante.

 

[Yurt]

If you wanted a debate about states rights you should have been more clear. Are you high on dope now?

i thought i did. if i didn't, so what? the legalization of marijuana encompasses the issue of states rights.

 

[Yurt]

yes i did:

after the PM i just sent you, you still don't understand that in a debate, a side, is needed?

and even after i said you could pick the topic. ok

if you want a free for all...even after i said you could pick the topic...then i will go easy on you:

legalization of marijuana:

A. federal level

B. state level

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Decriminalization would take the issue out of the hands of the law..it would be a first step that brings breathing room and clarity...what you seem to be arguing is the process of commercially selling the dope. Commercial selling of dope invites the state, the government, on local, state and federal levels: commerce.

I am arguing for dope being a harmless substance that is a personal choice, like assisted suicide...both are personal choices that harm the individual and leave society alone...

Harm Reduction

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

think of my position on dope like a position on keeping the government out of the world wide web

keep your hands off my experiences online, my dope and my right to die.

 

[Yurt]

decriminalization does not take the issue out of the hands of 'the law'. if you want me to link you the difference between decrim and legal i will. but they are not the same. at all.

as to commerce, that is already happening though the black market. tax free for 99% of marijuana sales. imagine legalization, under the same standards as alcohol, and you would see a NET growth to the state and federal government, instead of the net loss we spend to fight a silly "war" against marijuana.

if you really believe it is a personal choice, then your only option is legalization of it.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A true bottom process would start with individuals being able to grow and barter their own dope.

Of course, eventually local rules and regulations would need to be developed concerning health and safety issues, that is once a commercial underground reached a certain point. I am speaking of growing and bartering dope, not a commercial thing where many of the dope pushers want it to be...that is all about greed and not about freedom and liberty.

Once a local issue is raised, inevitably a commercial licensing issue will come up (sad but true), and the states would get involved. The feds would of course enter once commercial transactions involved crossing state lines

So, keep dope decriminalized and what will be legalized on some level is the selling of the seeds or plantlets...not owning and growing a plant.

I worked in the garden center business for a few years...flowers and vegetables and trees and bushes...are decriminalized. One can grow them and do whatever one wants with them...within reason

See?

Now you know why its' called dope?

as far as smoking the shit? It's not called dope because it is totally harmless

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"if you really believe it is a personal choice, then your only option is legalization of it." - Yurt

Unfortunately for you, personal opinions are no substitute for facts

---
When even the small government libertarians get behind the argument that taxing the personal choice to grow a plant in your own home or yard is a good thing, something is wrong with humanity.

In California I have met young people who grew up with their parents growing pot plants at home, and for them my position is well understood. No repressive law enforcement...no gangs or dealers, no government tax agents

 

[Yurt]

i would like to give a big hand to dante for kick starting this sub forum off.

you have a point about government involved with marijuana sales. the reality is, the government will never be hands off with any drug sales. while i appreciate your point, it is not realistic.

once again, there is a difference between legalization and decriminalization.

until there is legalization dante, the government will have a larger hand in the cultivation of marijuana.

again, great job on getting this sub forum going, i will be back tomorrow.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

And I would like to give a big hand to Yurt, he deserves more than I for kick starting this sub forum off.

When the debate is reframed as pot being a plant ... taking the drug shit off the table .. society can then address it's usage if it becomes commercial.

for years many drugs and the plants they derive from were decriminalized. The world was better off. When your side meets the other side framing the argument as one of a drug, you will always lose on some level, because the people have demanded the government be involved in drugs.

Maybe reframe pot as being an herb , and not a drug? then All the Mormons who fight against regulating herbs and vitamins will join you.

later
and thank you
D

 

[Yurt]

i appreciate your point of view, however, it is not realistic to expect the government to all of a sudden treat marijuana as if it were not a drug. my approach is realistic and likely to garner support from the government and the population.

further, marijuana is not simply an herb. that is like saying 'shrooms' are merely mushrooms. there is a difference and that is why my approach will work. we are close and getting closer each day.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

i appreciate your point of view, however, it is not realistic to expect the government to all of a sudden treat marijuana as if it were not a drug. my approach is realistic and likely to garner support from the government and the population.

further, marijuana is not simply an herb. that is like saying 'shrooms' are merely mushrooms. there is a difference and that is why my approach will work. we are close and getting closer each day.

Never said the government would all of a sudden do anything. It's about people and the public debate and that is what is lost in America today.

We have self-described libertarians demanding the government step in and fix a problem or offer a solution? That is Libertarianism and republican(small 'r') federalism backwards

We have a government of the people. If the people were convinced that shrooms were just plants and that pot was just a plant, the government would follow. It's about convincing people.

It is illegal to posses or grow shrooms? Is it illegal to posses poppy plants or to grow them? If so, the question needs to be 'why' and be revisited. The same applies to all plants and herbs and trees, and...

Who are we as a people when conservatives, progressives and libertarians all demand a nanny state on such an issue that goes to individual freedom and liberty?