You're All Trapped In The False Left-Right Paradigm

[flacaltenn]

I think we can all agree that more political parties aren't the answer.

Epic fail. I do love it when the Illuminati is envoked...that always adds a chuckle to the proceedings.

Sorry CandyCorn: Not ALL of us agree to love the DEMs or the REPs.. I can't tell the diff between the monopoly choices that we're offered. THEY don't take it seriously. And the critters that come up thru their ranks stink. They need to compete just like the rest of our institutions. It's time to open up the process and stop making it impossible to get names on the ballot.

 

[flacaltenn]

You know -- GeoLaureate does have a point in the TITLE of this thread.

Using left-right one dimensional scale paradigm to measure political philosophy is pretty crude. Probably the largest contribution to PRACTICAL politics that my Lib. Party has made was the 2 dimensional chart. There really are AT LEAST 2 important degrees of freedom (e.g. Social and Economic) and you can't discern Liberals from Leftists Or Neo-Cons from Conservatives without both.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is not liberal or conservative. It is globalists and constitutionalists. ~ Chuck Baldwin.

Globalists.
Bush
Cheney
Kerry
Obama
Hillary
McCain

Not globalists.
Ron Paul
Chuck Baldwin
Cynthia McKinney
Dennis Kucinich
Ralph Nader

 

[Susan45]

It seems to me that knowing what party a person belongs to gives us a leg up on what that person stands for. And to say there is no difference isn't quite right.

Before big elections the parties in question get together and put out a platform. And while this won't always help it's at least a start in finding out how that person believes. Otherwise it's just a blind crapshoot and we are left with nothing but the persons word what they really believe in. And I don't know about you, but I've found that some people are less then honest.

About Jobs | Democrats.org
http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/
Platform | Libertarian Party

There actually is no reason why any of us couldn't work for the party of our choice and become one of those people that works on the platform. Then after a vote the platform becomes part of the candidates history. It isn't just thought up out of air, but actually discussed and worked on by people who think alike.

So, what does it mean when a person says they are an independent? Who knows...it could mean anything or possibly it means nothing and the person just wants to get election. Personally, I'm always a little suspicious of people running that bring up the independent label and I feel like they are trying to hide something.

 

[uscitizen]

How is no regulations on industry socially liberal?

You have to dig deeper. The fact that many industries benefit from the government and regulations needs to be addressed. For instance, Goldman Sachs is a long arm of the Fed.

The idea that all firms have a level playing field, without the government picking winners and losers, is historically economically liberal.

Yes economically liberal, but not very socially liberal.

 

[flacaltenn]

It is not liberal or conservative. It is globalists and constitutionalists. ~ Chuck Baldwin.

Globalists.
Bush
Cheney
Kerry
Obama
Hillary
McCain

Not globalists.
Ron Paul
Chuck Baldwin
Cynthia McKinney
Dennis Kucinich
Ralph Nader

Now you've REALLY confused me P.F. Because Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kucinich MAY INDEED NOT be globalists. But they are SURE AS HELL -- NOT constitutionalists either!

 

[Susan45]

It is not liberal or conservative. It is globalists and constitutionalists. ~ Chuck Baldwin.

Globalists.
Bush
Cheney
Kerry
Obama
Hillary
McCain

Not globalists.
Ron Paul
Chuck Baldwin
Cynthia McKinney
Dennis Kucinich
Ralph Nader

This Chuck Baldwin???

Chuck Baldwin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[flacaltenn]

It seems to me that knowing what party a person belongs to gives us a leg up on what that person stands for. And to say there is no difference isn't quite right.

Before big elections the parties in question get together and put out a platform. And while this won't always help it's at least a start in finding out how that person believes. Otherwise it's just a blind crapshoot and we are left with nothing but the persons word what they really believe in. And I don't know about you, but I've found that some people are less then honest.

About Jobs | Democrats.org
http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/
Platform | Libertarian Party

There actually is no reason why any of us couldn't work for the party of our choice and become one of those people that works on the platform. Then after a vote the platform becomes part of the candidates history. It isn't just thought up out of air, but actually discussed and worked on by people who think alike.

So, what does it mean when a person says they are an independent? Who knows...it could mean anything or possibly it means nothing and the person just wants to get election. Personally, I'm always a little suspicious of people running that bring up the independent label and I feel like they are trying to hide something.

Party affiliation might tell you a little. But not that much. The DEM party provides shelter for a lot of socialists, eco-nauts, and isolationists. The REP party provides shelter for a lot of jingoists, globalists, and "natural law" (religious) believers. And take a test on foreign policy (for instance). There ain't an OUNCE of difference in practice between the two the parties. They BOTH suck on that. They both suck on the rules they make for the legislative process and honest debate.

Platforms often tell you more in what they OMIT (or hide) -- then what they include. Only the EXTREMES like the Greens (socialists) and the Libertarians and maybe even the Chuck Baldwin folks are honestly presenting a comprehensive prescription for action.. That's why we should ENCOURAGE them to come out of the shelters in the 2 monopoly parties and debate on their own merits.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is not liberal or conservative. It is globalists and constitutionalists. ~ Chuck Baldwin.

Globalists.
Bush
Cheney
Kerry
Obama
Hillary
McCain

Not globalists.
Ron Paul
Chuck Baldwin
Cynthia McKinney
Dennis Kucinich
Ralph Nader

Now you've REALLY confused me P.F. Because Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kucinich MAY INDEED NOT be globalists. But they are SURE AS HELL -- NOT constitualists either!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0c5qEZuqHo]YouTube - ‪Cynthia McKinney - Restore Our Constitutional Rights‬‏[/ame]

 

[thereisnospoon]

After being on this board for several weeks, I have noticed that almost everyone is trapped in the false Left-Right paradigm and makes comments like "Liberals are ruining this country" and "Conservatives hate the poor."

I've got news for you, both sides have equally and cooperatively destroyed this country. I don't know if you noticed, but as Presidents and parties change, the agenda stays the SAME. Obama simply continued Bushes policies and added a bit of his own bs. Is this not obvious?

Every Presidency, more and more civil liberties are taken away, the wars go on, the more and more globalization increases and US sovereignty decreases.

So it's simply naive to point fingers at Democrats and say how stupid and evil they are when the Republicans have done an equal amount of evil deeds and destruction to this country.

This is how the Illuminati decieves people and maintain power. They give people the illusion of choice and make people think there is a difference in the choices, that way, whichever party or President they vote for, the Illuminati wins every time. It's the perfect scam. How can you fall for it.

And btw, I already anticipate responses talking about Dems and Repubs aren't true Liberals and Conservatives, but that's fine, regardless, true Liberalism and true Conservatism are still antithetical to Freedom and proper socio-political theory. Only Libertarians can claim to be the ideology that upholds true Liberty and sound principles.


Edit: Just to clarify, I know that perhaps not ALL here apply, but most do.

.

Ahh yes...Another elitist comes along to tell us we're all idiots while he looks down upon us form his ivory tower.

 

[flacaltenn]

P.F. Timore:

First off. Cynthia McKinney wouldn't hesitate to nullify the 2nd and 10th amendments if she could. Secondly, she has her hand in my wallet as if it was her own. Thirdly, she's on my list of the 10 top nut jobs EVER to hold Fed elected office.. Maybe she's not a Globalist. But she isn't your other choice of Constitutionalist either. So what does that tell us? Those are very valid political positions, but they are not sufficient to describe EVERY political faction..

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It is not liberal or conservative. It is globalists and constitutionalists. ~ Chuck Baldwin.

Now you've REALLY confused me P.F. Because Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kucinich MAY INDEED NOT be globalists. But they are SURE AS HELL -- NOT constitutionalists either!

Just curious – but what exactly is the “constitutionalists’” plan?

Elect like-minded officials over the next several years to appoint Federal judges and justices to overturn 208 years of Constitutional case law?

Constitutional amendments?

Constitutional convention?

All of the above?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P.F. Timore:

First off. Cynthia McKinney wouldn't hesitate to nullify the 2nd and 10th amendments if she could. Secondly, she has her hand in my wallet as if it was her own. Thirdly, she's on my list of the 10 top nut jobs EVER to hold Fed elected office.. Maybe she's not a Globalist. But she isn't your other choice of Constitutionalist either. So what does that tell us? Those are very valid political positions, but they are not sufficient to describe EVERY political faction..

Actually McKinney has been a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment since she dumped the Democratic Party.

I haven't heard of anything one way or the other about the 10th.

McKinney is virtually in lockstep with Ron Paul on foreign and monetary policy but more moderate on domestic issues.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

First off. Cynthia McKinney wouldn't hesitate to nullify the 2nd and 10th amendments if she could.

…and how does one ‘nullify’ an Amendment to the Constitution?

 

[flacaltenn]

First off. Cynthia McKinney wouldn't hesitate to nullify the 2nd and 10th amendments if she could.

…and how does one ‘nullify’ an Amendment to the Constitution?

Well -- that's essentially the claim that the NRA uses to collect those HUGE donations.
They are CONSTANTLY telling me about threats to "nullify" my right to arms.

You nullify ANY right by hacking away at it. In the courts, in the Congress, in the states, at the very CITY level.

Of course you're correct in corraling me because technically you can't "nullify" an amendment without an amendment (see prohibition). But the methods that the McKinney's of this world use -- don't REQUIRE a 2/3 majority of the states to ratify. Now do they?

 

[P F Tinmore]

First off. Cynthia McKinney wouldn't hesitate to nullify the 2nd and 10th amendments if she could.

…and how does one ‘nullify’ an Amendment to the Constitution?

It's easy. Just pass something like a gun control law and what are you going to do about it?

 

[editec]

After being on this board for several weeks, I have noticed that almost everyone is trapped in the false Left-Right paradigm and makes comments like "Liberals are ruining this country" and "Conservatives hate the poor."

I've got news for you, both sides have equally and cooperatively destroyed this country. I don't know if you noticed, but as Presidents and parties change, the agenda stays the SAME. Obama simply continued Bushes policies and added a bit of his own bs. Is this not obvious?

Every Presidency, more and more civil liberties are taken away, the wars go on, the more and more globalization increases and US sovereignty decreases.

So it's simply naive to point fingers at Democrats and say how stupid and evil they are when the Republicans have done an equal amount of evil deeds and destruction to this country.

This is how the Illuminati decieves people and maintain power. They give people the illusion of choice and make people think there is a difference in the choices, that way, whichever party or President they vote for, the Illuminati wins every time. It's the perfect scam. How can you fall for it.

And btw, I already anticipate responses talking about Dems and Repubs aren't true Liberals and Conservatives, but that's fine, regardless, true Liberalism and true Conservatism are still antithetical to Freedom and proper socio-political theory. Only Libertarians can claim to be the ideology that upholds true Liberty and sound principles.


Edit: Just to clarify, I know that perhaps not ALL here apply, but most do.

.

Remember PEP rallies in high school?

Teaching citizens to THINK in terms of being on and supporting YOUR TEAM is what they were all about, ya know?

And as you can see, that form of mind control really works damned well.

I used to be a very partisan person, ya know?

I now think of myself now as a recovering partisan.

 

[sparky]

I now think of myself now as a recovering partisan.

brilliant!.....there should be a support group.....

 

[editec]

I now think of myself now as a recovering partisan.

brilliant!.....there should be a support group.....

A recovering partisan must first accept the fact that there are things he can do something about

Like not playing into the partisans' hands.

and things that he cannot do anything about

Like expecting that one can bring people to a non-partisan POV.

Each person has to arrive at that TRUTH on his own. The easiest way for people to do that is to actually GET INVOLVED with their local parties on the grass roots level.

Sooner or later if one is a loyal partisan you'll begin to notice that the leadership of your party is NOT particualrly interested in what you and the rest of your grass roots chums think about any subject whatever.

And, if you're foolish enough to stand up to the leadership of that party (doesn't matter one you choose) you will be marginalized by that organization.