Your Guns belong to us now

[hazlnut]

When you commit a crime and are convicted, and later find a way to purchase a handgun or assault rifle though a private party or gun show, you do NOT own that gun.

You ILLEGALLY POSSESS that gun. You gave up the right to own a gun when you committed the crime, beat your wife, were dishonorably discharged from the military, or stalked someone to the point that they took out a restraining order on you.

Through free choice, your actions voided your own rights.

That GUN belongs to the state. They can come and take it and destroy it.

If you're not a felon, mentally ill, dishonorable discharge, domestic abuser, restraining order, or a fugitive from justice, then this doesn't apply. Nor does most of what will be put into place in the months to come.

If you're a law-abiding citizen who follows the rules, you may have to fill out an extra form at a gun show, but that's about it. Your life won't change one bit.

If you're mentally ill, we know you didn't choose that situation, and it may seem unfair that the sheriff will be taking away your guns, but it's for your own safety and the safety of your community.

 

[OODA_Loop]

That is the law now.

Enforce it.

Stay out of my gunsafe and personal choices.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If you're a law-abiding citizen who follows the rules, you may have to fill out an extra form at a gun show, but that's about it. Your life won't change one bit.

In a private sale between two state residents, who will conduct the background check? Who will be allowed access to the criminal records database? How will he gain access to the database? And who will be the authorized custodian of the 4473 or any other documents?

 

[hazlnut]

That is the law now.

Enforce it.

Stay out of my gunsafe and personal choices.

If you've followed the rules and obeyed the law, I have no interest in your gun safe.

If you should decide to sell your guns, I would like to make it law that some type of transfer of ownership document be part of the public record. That protects you should the gun be found at the scene of a crime. That also helps police track down people who might be inclined to sell guns to criminals. I'm sure that is not you.

 

[OODA_Loop]

That is the law now.

Enforce it.

Stay out of my gunsafe and personal choices.

If you've followed the rules and obeyed the law, I have no interest in your gun safe.

If you should decide to sell your guns, I would like to make it law that some type of transfer of ownership document be part of the public record. That protects you should the gun be found at the scene of a crime. That also helps police track down people who might be inclined to sell guns to criminals. I'm sure that is not you.

Ah within two posts you have already expanded your enforcement requirements.

That is the concern with your type.

 

[hazlnut]

If you're a law-abiding citizen who follows the rules, you may have to fill out an extra form at a gun show, but that's about it. Your life won't change one bit.

In a private sale between two state residents, who will conduct the background check? Who will be allowed access to the criminal records database? How will he gain access to the database? And who will be the authorized custodian of the 4473 or any other documents?

This is where a state carry license could come in handy, if you have a carry license with some type of state permit that requires a rigorous background check, with your picture on it and an expiration date, then I have no problem with a private sale.

However, for military style weapons, there should be strict transfer of ownership document, like a pink slip. Since only a minority of gun owners engage in the AR-15 fetish, the new policies on registering those weapons with the FBI will be the price they'll pay for their hobby.

Most hunters and homeowners will never have to deal with this paperwork more than once.

The NICS database is going to have to be redone. A person should be able to request something like a 30-day clearance that they can take to gun shows and private sales. A document with a photo matching their driver's license, with their current home address.

I want legal law-abiding gun owners to be able to purchase whatever they want with the minimum of hassle. Most gun owners that I've talked to don't mind background checks and actually understand that it makes their community safer.

If you can get pre-approved for a loan, why can't you get pre-approved for gun purchase?

 

[Truthmatters]

If you're a law-abiding citizen who follows the rules, you may have to fill out an extra form at a gun show, but that's about it. Your life won't change one bit.

In a private sale between two state residents, who will conduct the background check? Who will be allowed access to the criminal records database? How will he gain access to the database? And who will be the authorized custodian of the 4473 or any other documents?

you could have to do the transaction with the help of the local authorities.


Or you could make it so that cant be done without the assitance of a gun shop who can check.

The gun shops could charge a fee for the service and that is part of the cost of selling a gun this way.


Im sure a reasonable solution could be come up with.

 

[hazlnut]

That is the law now.

Enforce it.

Stay out of my gunsafe and personal choices.

If you've followed the rules and obeyed the law, I have no interest in your gun safe.

If you should decide to sell your guns, I would like to make it law that some type of transfer of ownership document be part of the public record. That protects you should the gun be found at the scene of a crime. That also helps police track down people who might be inclined to sell guns to criminals. I'm sure that is not you.

Ah within two posts you have already expanded your enforcement requirements.

That is the concern with your type.

Answer these questions:

1) Do you accept as fact that some people will knowingly sell guns to criminals?

2) Do you accept as fact that some people will purchase multiple guns then cross state lines to illegally sell them on the streets?

3) Do you accept as your responsibility to not sell your legal handgun to someone who might use it for illegal purposes?

4) Wouldn't you feel safer knowing that if the gun that you previously owned were used in a crime, you could prove that you sold the weapon after a reasonable amount of due diligence?

5) Do you feel any responsibility as member of society to endure minor inconveniences in the interest of public safety? (taking off your shoes, removing your computer at airport)

6) How long do you reckon it takes for a person to show you his drivers license and his state issued permit? How long would it take to copy his name and address onto a form, write the serial number of gun, and sign the form releasing yourself from any liability, then drop that into the mail?

I bet, in the interest of compliance and public safety, they would pre-address the form and include postage on the front, making it even easier for you to help keep your community safe.

 

[Londoner]

If you're a law-abiding citizen who follows the rules, you may have to fill out an extra form at a gun show, but that's about it. Your life won't change one bit.

There is small group of voters who get 100% of their news from extremely political sources. These news sources create a never-ending stream of very dubious content.

For instance, if Biden says that the administration hasn't ruled out an executive order, than these news sources make it sound like an executive order has take place.

Every day these news sources look for things that can be twisted so as to agitate the base.

This is what revolutions do. They don't report news, they agitate the stupid.

The only changes to gun laws will be minor changes to background checks.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

That is the law now.

Enforce it.

Stay out of my gunsafe and personal choices.

If you've followed the rules and obeyed the law, I have no interest in your gun safe.

If you should decide to sell your guns, I would like to make it law that some type of transfer of ownership document be part of the public record. That protects you should the gun be found at the scene of a crime. That also helps police track down people who might be inclined to sell guns to criminals. I'm sure that is not you.

Thats about the gayest idea Ive ever heard.

 

[Oddball]

That is the law now.

Enforce it.

Stay out of my gunsafe and personal choices.

If you've followed the rules and obeyed the law, I have no interest in your gun safe.

If you should decide to sell your guns, I would like to make it law that some type of transfer of ownership document be part of the public record. That protects you should the gun be found at the scene of a crime. That also helps police track down people who might be inclined to sell guns to criminals. I'm sure that is not you.

Ah within two posts you have already expanded your enforcement requirements.

That is the concern with your type.

Nothing is ever enough for the committed paranoid central controller tyrant.

 

[boedicca]

If you've followed the rules and obeyed the law, I have no interest in your gun safe.

If you should decide to sell your guns, I would like to make it law that some type of transfer of ownership document be part of the public record. That protects you should the gun be found at the scene of a crime. That also helps police track down people who might be inclined to sell guns to criminals. I'm sure that is not you.

Ah within two posts you have already expanded your enforcement requirements.

That is the concern with your type.

Nothing is ever enough for the committed paranoid central controller tyrant.

They like to set things up so that the laws are so overwhelming and complicated that Everyone Is A Criminal. It's easier to control people when they can be threatened with jail or fines for thoroughly innocuous behavior (and independent attitudes).

 

[hazlnut]

If you're a law-abiding citizen who follows the rules, you may have to fill out an extra form at a gun show, but that's about it. Your life won't change one bit.

In a private sale between two state residents, who will conduct the background check? Who will be allowed access to the criminal records database? How will he gain access to the database? And who will be the authorized custodian of the 4473 or any other documents?

you could have to do the transaction with the help of the local authorities.


Or you could make it so that cant be done without the assitance of a gun shop who can check.

The gun shops could charge a fee for the service and that is part of the cost of selling a gun this way.


Im sure a reasonable solution could be come up with.

I agree, those are all very reasonable. Each state and local law enforcement should choose what works best for them.

But what MUST happen, states that hold guns shows and have lax gun regs, have to accept some responsibility for policing people who traffic guns across state lines for sale to criminals.

This is where the AFT and FBI must coordinate and work with locals. The gun sold at a gun show that kills a kid in Brooklyn is not a "their" problem.

All these racist ignorant threads that get posted about the horrible crime in urban Chicago, teens dying every weekend. Those guns, those bullets all come from Indiana and Michigan. Criminals purchasing guns and then driving across state lines and selling them on the street. Do NRA members feel any responsibility for this type of criminal trafficking of guns?

X = legal guns
Y = illegal guns available to criminals
C = the gun control constant - the LE measures and regs in place curbing the flow, as a percentage.

Then XC= Y. (e.g. 1000 legal guns x .05 = 50 illegal guns available to criminals.) I don't know the actual C constant, for ever X guns sold legally, approximate C percentage of them will eventually end up on the black market--

C may change slightly, say from .05 to .049, but as long as it doesn't fluctuate much then then as X goes up, so does Y. With the boom in gun sales after the 2008 and 2012 elections, and in the aftermath of shootings, X has gone up, therefore Y, the illegal guns available to criminals has gone up.

Background checks at gun shows and some regulation of private sales would drive C down to. Funding AFT efforts to track domestic trafficking of weapons from lax gun states to urban areas would result in the arrest of traffickers and drive C down even more.

The NRA could be such a valuable source as to how to catch people illegally trafficking guns, but instead they fall back on paranoia and an anti-government stance. In this case, because we're talking about the public safety of all Americans, their position is IMO anti-American.

 

[saveliberty]

How about we treat criminals like criminals and the rest of us like citizens with rights?

 

[eots]

When you commit a crime and are convicted, and later find a way to purchase a handgun or assault rifle though a private party or gun show, you do NOT own that gun.

You ILLEGALLY POSSESS that gun. You gave up the right to own a gun when you committed the crime, beat your wife, were dishonorably discharged from the military, or stalked someone to the point that they took out a restraining order on you.

Through free choice, your actions voided your own rights.

That GUN belongs to the state. They can come and take it and destroy it.

If you're not a felon, mentally ill, dishonorable discharge, domestic abuser, restraining order, or a fugitive from justice, then this doesn't apply. Nor does most of what will be put into place in the months to come.

If you're a law-abiding citizen who follows the rules, you may have to fill out an extra form at a gun show, but that's about it. Your life won't change one bit.

If you're mentally ill, we know you didn't choose that situation, and it may seem unfair that the sheriff will be taking away your guns, but it's for your own safety and the safety of your community.

I will be sure to tell those in psychosis and criminals they should not have guns

 

[Oddball]

Ah within two posts you have already expanded your enforcement requirements.

That is the concern with your type.

Nothing is ever enough for the committed paranoid central controller tyrant.

They like to set things up so that the laws are so overwhelming and complicated that Everyone Is A Criminal. It's easier to control people when they can be threatened with jail or fines for thoroughly innocuous behavior (and independent attitudes).

Or, as Rand put it: A society where all that is not required is prohibited.

 

[Mad Scientist]

All your abortions are belong to us.

 

[Inthemiddle]

But what MUST happen, states that hold guns shows and have lax gun regs, have to accept some responsibility for policing people who traffic guns across state lines for sale to criminals.

No, that is explicitly the responsibility of the federal government. And that is one of the problems with all this gun control talk. The government is the model of poor functionality. Instead of foolheartedly relying on government to succeed at disarming criminals, it's better to empower citizens to protect themselves against dangerous criminals.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Chicago needs to realize that their gun problem is their own fault and stop trying to blame others.

 

[hazlnut]

When you commit a crime and are convicted, and later find a way to purchase a handgun or assault rifle though a private party or gun show, you do NOT own that gun.

You ILLEGALLY POSSESS that gun. You gave up the right to own a gun when you committed the crime, beat your wife, were dishonorably discharged from the military, or stalked someone to the point that they took out a restraining order on you.

Through free choice, your actions voided your own rights.

That GUN belongs to the state. They can come and take it and destroy it.

If you're not a felon, mentally ill, dishonorable discharge, domestic abuser, restraining order, or a fugitive from justice, then this doesn't apply. Nor does most of what will be put into place in the months to come.

If you're a law-abiding citizen who follows the rules, you may have to fill out an extra form at a gun show, but that's about it. Your life won't change one bit.

If you're mentally ill, we know you didn't choose that situation, and it may seem unfair that the sheriff will be taking away your guns, but it's for your own safety and the safety of your community.

I will be sure to tell those in psychosis and criminals they should not have guns

Please do.