you will be told how to live

[Luissa]

do you want goverment run health care?

I want a two party system so everyone who is a citizen is covered and I also think there should be sliding scale premium and if you have cancer or something along that lines you shouldn't have to pay.

Who is paying?

the government and or the company someone works for.
We let corporations get off covering their employees and using loop holes to do so.

 

[Fatality]

I want a two party system so everyone who is a citizen is covered and I also think there should be sliding scale premium and if you have cancer or something along that lines you shouldn't have to pay.

Who is paying?

the government and or the company someone works for.
We let corporations get off covering their employees and using loop holes to do so.

so you want free stuff, you want to suck at the government teat.

 

[alan1]

I want a two party system so everyone who is a citizen is covered and I also think there should be sliding scale premium and if you have cancer or something along that lines you shouldn't have to pay.

Who is paying?

the government and or the company someone works for.
We let corporations get off covering their employees and using loop holes to do so.

Haha, "the government".
Oh fuck, you are one of those people that doesn't understand where the government gets money from.

 

[alan1]

Who is paying?

the government and or the company someone works for.
We let corporations get off covering their employees and using loop holes to do so.

so you want free stuff, you want to suck at the government teet.

The government fairy has free money, dontcha know?

 

[Modbert]

Because we all know the best way to have a debate about Health Care is to be a condescending prick to others just trying to get by.

You seemed to forgot to call her a dog like some insurance companies do to their customers there MM.

Seriously, we can have a debate on this issue without divulging into personal attacks and insults.

And I'm suppose to be the immature one.

 

[alan1]

Because we all know the best way to have a debate about Health Care is to be a condescending prick to others just trying to get by.

You seemed to forgot to call her a dog like some insurance companies do to their customers there MM.

Seriously, we can have a debate on this issue without divulging into personal attacks and insults.

And I'm suppose to be the immature one.

Bullshit on your part. I implied nothing, unlike what you have just done.
Take your passive-aggressive stance and shove it up your ass (see, if I want to make a personal attack I say it, unlike you, grow some balls).

 

[Big Black Dog]

Health Care reform is NOT about health care reform. It is an attempt to control every aspect of your life through government "power". The government wants people to rely on it. It is a self-feeding parasite.

 

[Fatality]

the government and or the company someone works for.
We let corporations get off covering their employees and using loop holes to do so.

so you want free stuff, you want to suck at the government teet.

The government fairy has free money, dontcha know?

yep, no one needs to work, the gov can just print money and pass it out. im never going to go to work again!!!

 

[Modbert]

Think Progress » Insurance company executive refers to high-cost patients as ‘dogs.’

Insurance Companies: Get Sterilized and Then We'll Cover You - The World Newser

17-Pound, 4-Month-Old Baby Denied Health Insurance for Being Too Fat - Children's Health - FOXNews.com

For the record, what you talked about in your UK quotes already happens here with private insurance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/health/policy/01swiss.html?_r=1

Pre-Existing Health "Conditions" -- Cops, Firefighters, Expectant Dads, and Those Suffering From Allergies, Acne and Toenail Fungus Are Uninsurable According To Internal Documents - Consumer Watchdog

Think Progress » Health Insurers Consider A Caesarean-Section Pregnancy A Pre-Existing Condition

ISS - Domestic violence a 'pre-existing condition' for insurers in some states

I can get plenty of more links about how "great" our insurance here is in the good ol U.S.

Child's health care coverage denied

A life flight followed by surgeries, and stays in the NICU don't come cheap. The helicopter alone was $30,000 - though I was fairly certain Trypp's care would be covered. It wasn't.

Our insurance denied us, saying that the care he received in Minnesota could have been performed in North Dakota and therefore he didn't need the life flight. What our insurance failed to recognize was that the entire series of procedures required to treat Trypp could not have been performed in North Dakota and the doctors would have sent him to the Cities anyway.
MinnesotaCare also denied us for similar reasons.

We are now left with a cloud of what will probably end up being over $100,000 of medical bills

Family sues insurer who denied teen transplant - Health care- msnbc.com

Healthcare Horror: Care Denied Over $7 Debt for Insured Patient ...by Donna Smith | MichaelMoore.com

Legal Loophole Ensnares Breast-Cancer Patients - WSJ.com

New survey finds 12 million Americans denied coverage by insurance industry | Healthcare Finance News

The report, issued Tuesday, cites a recent national survey showing 12.6 million non-elderly adults – 36 percent of those who tried to buy insurance on the private market – were deemed ineligible for coverage by insurance agencies. Many of the denied patients had cancer. According to the survey, insurance companies either charged a higher premium or refused to cover the condition.

Another survey cited in the report found one in 10 people with cancer said they could not get health coverage, and 6 percent said they lost their coverage because of their diagnosis.

Is that the way to treat the elderly there MM? You tell me? Is that our American way?

12 Outrageous Health Care Horror Stories

Health Care Statistics in the United States

The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system. Source: Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences

The rest of them? Socialists dammit! Socialists with higher life spans too for some odd reason, must be all that children's blood they drink!

More than 40 million adults stated that they needed but did not receive one or more of these health services (medical care, prescription medicines, mental health care, dental care, or eyeglasses) in 2005 because they could not afford it. Source: National Center for Health Statistics

The United States spends twice as much on health care per capita ($7,129) than any other country . . . and spending continues to increase. In 2005, the national health care expenditures totaled $2 trillion. Source: National Center for Health Statistics

The United States ranks 43rd in lowest infant mortality rate, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990. Singapore has the lowest rate with 2.3 deaths per 1000 live births, while the United States has a rate of 6.3 deaths per 1000 live births. Some of the other 42 nations that have a lower infant mortality rate than the US include Hong Kong, Slovenia, and Cuba. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)

Best Health Care in the World right?

Life expectancy at birth in the US is an average of 78.14 years, which ranks 47th in highest total life expectancy compared to other countries. Source: CIA Factbook (2008)

About half of the bankruptcy filings in the United States are due to medical expenses. Source: Health Affairs Journal 2005

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RssIN3ustUw]YouTube - Lee Greenwood - God Bless The USA[/ame]

You don't seem to get it, for every overseas horror story, there's at least ten here in the U.S.A. So while you may try to paint the other health care systems as being monsters that will kill us all, this current one is sucking us dry financially and many of us physically.

 

[Modbert]

Health Care reform is NOT about health care reform. It is an attempt to control every aspect of your life through government "power". The government wants people to rely on it. It is a self-feeding parasite.

I'm against a Government mandate. I'm against plenty of unneeded things. However, when you have Republicans in this country and on this board saying we don't need reform, I call bullshit.

 

[Modbert]

Bullshit on your part. I implied nothing, unlike what you have just done.
Take your passive-aggressive stance and shove it up your ass (see, if I want to make a personal attack I say it, unlike you, grow some balls).

I have balls, I have the balls not to go ahead and assume the lives of single mothers and how they support their kids. Whether you like it or not, you made an assumption on Luissa's story and so did Fatality.

I understand you said you were a single father. So you of all people should know how difficult it is to raise a child with one parent. Now imagine not being lucky enough to have everything covered by your insurance and having to pay out of pocket for plenty of stuff like many people do today? I'm not assuming your story, however I would of figured you of all people would know this sort of situation.

 

[Luissa]

Who is paying?

the government and or the company someone works for.
We let corporations get off covering their employees and using loop holes to do so.

Haha, "the government".
Oh fuck, you are one of those people that doesn't understand where the government gets money from.

I understand where it is coming from!

 

[chanel]

Then logic would say that all people with pre-existing conditions and family history would be charged astronomical premiums as well, right? Because everyone knows that family history is a far more accurate predictor of future illness than behavior,

 

[Luissa]

Who is paying?

the government and or the company someone works for.
We let corporations get off covering their employees and using loop holes to do so.

so you want free stuff, you want to suck at the government teat.

say that when you are 80 and getting medicaid.
You asked me what I wanted and I answered you without insulting you, why don't you tell me how you want it reformed.
I have worked since it was legally possible and I paid taxes, I am in school right now so I cannot have a full time job and I will never feel sorry for getting help right now so my son can have health insurance.
I worked for a corporation for four years that used every loop hole so they didn't have to give me health care. So like I said I want a two party system where they companies have to provide medical for their employees with the government covering part of it and the person covers the rest with sliding scale premium. We are paying for the uninsured anyways, why don't we make it cheaper for us in the long run.

 

[Modbert]

Then logic would say that all people with pre-existing conditions and family history would be charged astronomical premiums as well, right? Because everyone knows that family history is a far more accurate predictor of future illness than behavior,

You seem to not get the fact that plenty of Pre-Existing Conditions are wrong. Domestic Abuse Survivors are Pre-Existing Conditions.

Insurance Companies will find anything they can to drop you from your insurance at any time so they won't have to pay for you. They are basically trying to cheat what you paid them for years to do when you need them most.

When companies are paying their employees who can get the most people off the list without having to pay for them then you know we have a broken system.

This is a clear example to be honest that Health Care should not be for-profit in many cases. We would not put some of the most important things in society specifically only on for-profit schemes.

See: Education, Police, Fire Department.

How would you feel if the Fire Department said they would come to your house if you only paid a extra 50% while your house is ablaze? This is essentially what these insurance companies do to these people in their darkest hours. Or, they don't come at all.

While I understand most Republicans do want reform, they want too little reform. Their solutions will for the most part only further help big business and leave the loopholes that will continue to hurt the average American.

 

[Luissa]

so you want free stuff, you want to suck at the government teet.

The government fairy has free money, dontcha know?

yep, no one needs to work, the gov can just print money and pass it out. im never going to go to work again!!!

why don't you actually add something to the debate other than bullshit. I haven't heard you once say what your ideas are. All I have heard is insults and how liberals never want to work.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't have a problem with this IF the government were taken out of the equation:

Should health insurance be like auto insurance, in which good drivers earn discounts and reckless ones pay a price, thereby encouraging better habits?

Exactly. Why shouldn't the guy who watches his diet, takes care of himself, respects his body, and refrains from taking unnecessary risks pay less for his health insurance than the guy who smokes like a chimney, drinks like a fish, is 50 pounds overweight, and bungee jumps on the weekends? Why should the guy who takes care of himself be forced to pay for the guy who doesn't for that matter?

On the other hand, nobody should be forced to go without health insurance because of a medical condition they had no control over, and assigned risk pools or other means to cover the high risk people should also be available, but at a higher cost.

If we would enact reasonable tort reform and then go back to actually using insurance instead of the fees for services that we now have, insurance premiums would be half what they are now without anybody having to do anything.

Instead the government seems to be ignoring all the provisions that would actually help and would actually work and are hell bent on forcing on the people what the people do not want.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The overseas horror cases are the exceptions that prove the rule that civilized nations have national health care at a much cheaper cost than the U.S. and the citizens live longer. Not one loony con argument ever can show either a quality-of-life or a cost-benefit analysis that favors the U.S. in comparison with civilized nations with national health care.

This argument is over. Reform will pass, period.

 

[Modbert]

Exactly. Why shouldn't the guy who watches his diet, takes care of himself, respects his body, and refrains from taking unnecessary risks pay less for his health insurance than the guy who smokes like a chimney, drinks like a fish, is 50 pounds overweight, and bungee jumps on the weekends? Why should the guy who takes care of himself be forced to pay for the guy who doesn't for that matter?

On the other hand, nobody should be forced to go without health insurance because of a medical condition they had no control over, and assigned risk pools or other means to cover the high risk people should also be available, but at a higher cost.

If we would enact reasonable tort reform and then go back to actually using insurance instead of the fees for services that we now have, insurance premiums would be half what they are now without anybody having to do anything.

Instead the government seems to be ignoring all the provisions that would actually help and would actually work and are hell bent on forcing on the people what the people do not want.

Tort Reform is not the holy grail to end all problems. Tort Reform will not work in the long run to solve this issue. It will help it a little, however it will still leave in place the ability for the health insurance companies to constantly fuck over their customers. These health insurance companies need to be taught a lesson much like U.S. Steel did back in 1962 when JFK showed them who's boss. We need Obama to have the balls that JFK did. Someone who is not taking the handouts from the health insurance companies but rather fighting for the American people.

Tort Reform is basically the lobbyists saying, if you do this for us we'll maybe agree on this! However, I highly doubt that these companies will lower their rates by that much, once they are making record profits, it's tough to go back to making less for them.

 

[RodISHI]

Calling an insured "dog" is wrong in every aspect but I can see that people who take a lifetime of 24 hour care should not be fully the burden of everyone else also. A friend of my daughter has a child with Chrones [sic] disease. The girl is now fifteen years old. Her mom provides her that 24 hour care. The state now provides a relief worker one eight hour day of every week. Families used to take care of their own families just like she takes care of her sick daughter who was born with that disease. Where is the line that everyone wants to draw? My mom and dad took care of his mother for fifteen years. They actually built her an apartment in their own home for her. She was not capable of fully taking care of herself, no one else had to foot the bill for her care.

No doubt that we should have a system that provides alternate care and assistance with health care for those in need but then again where do you draw those lines? I am not a fan of insurance companies by any means. For the most part I think they are shysters just like mega banks are shysters on a whole.

Should I have to pay the bill for a twenty year old that is mentally handicap and all her brothers and sisters because their mom drank while she was being formed? True story. I met this girl through a guy that worked PT for us. She was very slow in the thought process department. I asked her where she worked? She says "Oh, I don't work. I have fetal alcohol syndrome. I get a social security check for twelve hundred dollars a month." I ask, "Really, never heard of such a thing." She says yes I'm kinda slow. So are my brothers and sisters." Tell you what I was doing while she was giving me all this new info. I was finishing a new bathroom we had just built into an addition on the house, painting. The gal asked, "Can I help do that?" I told her sure and gave her the paint roller. She happily painted the bathroom for me while I cleaned the excess sheet rock mud off the floors. The day as done and she tells me that was fun can I come here again tomorrow?

This society has been in the shitter for a long, long time. Normal people do not have a chance and it is getting worse by the day as everyone demands their cut of everyone elses labor. Parents do not have time to take care of their children because they are to busy working their asses off to support the dumbasses, politicians, insurance companies, banksters who rape and pillage everywhere they can and the money changers. WHERE DOES IT ALL STOP? That is where and why you hear people like me say, "Personal responsibility." Take it, embrace it and quit blaming the rest of the working class so these money grubbers can take more away from the working class on bullshit premises like they have been doing for the last hundred years in this country.

I'm glad there is help for Luissa. Hell I had help back when I needed it. Yet help is not what our politicians are doing this day and age for the PEOPLE are supposed to be representing. They are bought and paid for by big money lobbyist and they are sucking this country dry.