You want to fix schools?

[Asclepias]

Incorporate human behavior, wealth building, leadership and interpersonal skills in every grade starting with preschool. Create and environment of expectancy.

1rst step.
Educate parents as to what the curriculum entails and why. Map out their expected contribution. To ensure attendance enforce a overnight stay at the local jail if they miss the meeting.

Teach children how to think and not recite from memory
Teach each ethnicity/race/culture about their true history
Encourage being well rounded and not a super geek or jock.
Pay teachers 6 figures starting off by making that the most important federal/state/county/city budgetary item.
Can any teachers that don't meet metrics. (No unions if necessary)
Encourage the adoption of any newly discovered teaching methods that are duplicatable and work ASAP.

 

[flacaltenn]

The USA has no central school system. I'm always astonished in these threads to discover how few know this simple fact: You have a LOCAL school system. If you have kids in it, then you can can call the teacher, ask for a fucking appointment, and see them to discuss your concerns. If you're not satisfied, then you can see the principal. If you're still not satisfied, then you can see the local district administration. If you're still not satisfied, you can write the paper, create a local PAC, or see the school board.

The issue of educational quality in the USA is not one that is solved by complainint to some huge Federal Agency or your congressman about why your school isn't more like a private catholic school, or one in Finland.

The quality issue IS ONLY RESOLVED when parents organize themselves to make improvements at the LOCAL LEVEL.

So if you are wondering why your kid cannot read, yet has made an "A" in reading, CALL THE FREAKING TEACHER!!!

You seem to be an idealist. Yes, on paper this is how the bureaucracy called a Unified School District works. In reality it is quite different.

I'm not satisfied, so I call the teacher. Teacher says it's not her problem, she is underfunded, understaffed, has too many students, too many regulations, has to "teach to the test", etc, etc, etc. Oh, by the way, gotta put kids on medication.

Go to Principal. Same story, not enough teachers, not enough money, too many kids, too many regulations. "Thank you for your time Mr. Boatswain, I will talk to the teacher about it and we will get things fixed. Now I have to run to another meeting."

Go to the school board which, in your major cities, are all run by Democrats, who blame the lack of funding.

If you want to see a great story about what happens when idealism like yours meets reality, then watch the movie "Waiting for Superman" and you will get an idea of what works. It is a story about a guy who tried to change the system from within and found that IT CANNOT BE CHANGED, so he went outside of the system and started his own private schools which are excelling (even while taking students from the lowest economic strata).

Before I left Cali.. I watch the local school district make some amazingly stupid moves. They replaced all the carpets in our kids school -------------

BEFORE they fixed the leaks in the roof.. Yup... Needed new carpets again before the roof got fixed.. Sad part is, as we all know, the same idiots are now promoted. And THAT'S why there's not enough money in the world to fix "the system"..

The observation that there is SUPPOSED to be local control, fails because it's a monopoly proposition. There is no incentive to please the stakeholders or to be efficient. And the stakeholders only get involved when their personal ox gets gored.

That's why Waiting for Superman brought me to tears.. Yup actual tears.

Money and responsibility is too fragmented and sequestered. There needs to be flexibility in how the various mountains of individual allocations get spent. AND there needs to be innovation, competition, and accountability.

Two other "beefs" of mine..

1) If the Fed govt WAS to be involved. The most important role it could play is "ANALYZING the PROBLEMS".. They should be the yardstick to measure comparative performance. If the sentiment is AGAINST standardized testing (shouldn't be) --- then the Fed role ought to be terminated for cause. Close the entire Dept of Ed..

IF YOURE NOT ALLOWED TO MEASURE THE PROBLEM -- GET OUT OF TOWN...

2) Purposeful lowering of expectations is evil.. I don't care what group of kids the school gets "stuck with".. When PARENTS encourage performance and success, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.. There is no reason in hell for professional educators to lower the bar because of percieved inability of their charges to succeed.. Yet the message is there in poorly performing schools that not much is expected. BECAUSE the kids are smarter than acknowledged and KNOW they will be offered less than others.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I do agree with the OP about catering to individual student needs, but different learning styles have been known about and understood for 20 years or more, and are a part of curricula worldwide already.

If the US wants to be the best, it could do worse than learning from others.

Finland ranks #1 in the world in education, and I think we have a system here that others could replicate.

Some key points:

- The curricula are developed by teachers, without political influence

- Teachers can adjust the curriculum to meet local needs and conditions

- All education is free, including university

that would require the removal of unions and over site, to ensure the teacher isn't teaching how she wants the kids to learn

that's good

how do the teachers get paid, how are supplies bought and how are the lights kept on?

 

[Two Thumbs]

There's a lot that can be done, but I'll list a few of my desires

test kids to see how they learn, and separate them

remove the useless bureaucrats that got hired when the school got more money and pass a law limiting the number of them

remove useless classes and put those teachers into more important ones, making class size smaller

11 months of school, with 8 hour days. morning break, lunch, afternoon break

Later starts for HS kids. this has been shown to increase gpa since they can stay awake

real after school help and a hotline. I can do algebra, but I can't help with grammar anymore

allow teachers to be fired and black balled

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Close down all public schools.
Tell parents to sort out their kids education.
By homeschooling or paying private schools.

Problem solved.

Crazy as a loon Glenn Beck said grandparents should be teaching their g'kids at home.

A very basic problem with homeschooling is that, across the board, almost to a person, the "teachers" are not qualified to do anything more than what we see on this board - rants based on whatever their particular political bias already is.

Home schooling will never turn out educated people because of that simple fact.

Instead of moving backward, regressing, we should be moving forward, progressing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Close down all public schools.
Tell parents to sort out their kids education.
By homeschooling or paying private schools.

Problem solved.

Crazy as a loon Glenn Beck said grandparents should be teaching their g'kids at home.

A very basic problem with homeschooling is that, across the board, almost to a person, the "teachers" are not qualified to do anything more than what we see on this board - rants based on whatever their particular political bias already is.

Home schooling will never turn out educated people because of that simple fact.

Instead of moving backward, regressing, we should be moving forward, progressing.

Would you like to tell Sandra Day O'Connor that she doesn't have a good education? While you are at it you can tell Einstein, Farady, and Pascal how stupid they are.

 

[flacaltenn]

Close down all public schools.
Tell parents to sort out their kids education.
By homeschooling or paying private schools.

Problem solved.

Crazy as a loon Glenn Beck said grandparents should be teaching their g'kids at home.

A very basic problem with homeschooling is that, across the board, almost to a person, the "teachers" are not qualified to do anything more than what we see on this board - rants based on whatever their particular political bias already is.

Home schooling will never turn out educated people because of that simple fact.

Instead of moving backward, regressing, we should be moving forward, progressing.

Homeschooling HAS been turning out highly qualified students.. There are risks involved, but the outcomes can be much better than ignoring academic prowess in a crowded class environment where the teacher is COMPLETELY constrained as to the curriculum and the expectations..

With the ability to link in to QUALITY educational material on the web, it gets EASIER to provide better outcomes..

There was a time when upwards of 50% of Alaskan schoolkids were "homeschooled".. The board of Ed would literally airdrop in a box of materials at the beginning of the year and testing showed very respectable results.. TODAY --- there is no limit to the quality outcome that could be accomplished with a broadband connection..

 

[Samson]

The USA has no central school system. I'm always astonished in these threads to discover how few know this simple fact: You have a LOCAL school system. If you have kids in it, then you can can call the teacher, ask for a fucking appointment, and see them to discuss your concerns. If you're not satisfied, then you can see the principal. If you're still not satisfied, then you can see the local district administration. If you're still not satisfied, you can write the paper, create a local PAC, or see the school board.

The issue of educational quality in the USA is not one that is solved by complainint to some huge Federal Agency or your congressman about why your school isn't more like a private catholic school, or one in Finland.

The quality issue IS ONLY RESOLVED when parents organize themselves to make improvements at the LOCAL LEVEL.

So if you are wondering why your kid cannot read, yet has made an "A" in reading, CALL THE FREAKING TEACHER!!!

You seem to be an idealist. Yes, on paper this is how the bureaucracy called a Unified School District works. In reality it is quite different.

I'm not satisfied, so I call the teacher. Teacher says it's not her problem, she is underfunded, understaffed, has too many students, too many regulations, has to "teach to the test", etc, etc, etc. Oh, by the way, gotta put kids on medication.

Go to Principal. Same story, not enough teachers, not enough money, too many kids, too many regulations. "Thank you for your time Mr. Boatswain, I will talk to the teacher about it and we will get things fixed. Now I have to run to another meeting."

Go to the school board which, in your major cities, are all run by Democrats, who blame the lack of funding.

If you want to see a great story about what happens when idealism like yours meets reality, then watch the movie "Waiting for Superman" and you will get an idea of what works. It is a story about a guy who tried to change the system from within and found that IT CANNOT BE CHANGED, so he went outside of the system and started his own private schools which are excelling (even while taking students from the lowest economic strata).

Before I left Cali.. I watch the local school district make some amazingly stupid moves. They replaced all the carpets in our kids school -------------

BEFORE they fixed the leaks in the roof.. Yup... Needed new carpets again before the roof got fixed.. Sad part is, as we all know, the same idiots are now promoted. And THAT'S why there's not enough money in the world to fix "the system"..

The observation that there is SUPPOSED to be local control, fails because it's a monopoly proposition. There is no incentive to please the stakeholders or to be efficient. And the stakeholders only get involved when their personal ox gets gored.

That's why Waiting for Superman brought me to tears.. Yup actual tears.

Money and responsibility is too fragmented and sequestered. There needs to be flexibility in how the various mountains of individual allocations get spent. AND there needs to be innovation, competition, and accountability.

Two other "beefs" of mine..

1) If the Fed govt WAS to be involved. The most important role it could play is "ANALYZING the PROBLEMS".. They should be the yardstick to measure comparative performance. If the sentiment is AGAINST standardized testing (shouldn't be) --- then the Fed role ought to be terminated for cause. Close the entire Dept of Ed..

IF YOURE NOT ALLOWED TO MEASURE THE PROBLEM -- GET OUT OF TOWN...

2) Purposeful lowering of expectations is evil.. I don't care what group of kids the school gets "stuck with".. When PARENTS encourage performance and success, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.. There is no reason in hell for professional educators to lower the bar because of percieved inability of their charges to succeed.. Yet the message is there in poorly performing schools that not much is expected. BECAUSE the kids are smarter than acknowledged and KNOW they will be offered less than others.

The title of the tread "You want to fix schools" is a little misleading.

One individual (you) has little impact of a public system: Even a LOCAL System.

And even if a majority coalition can somehow be forged, it will not be easy to affect change.

However, the system CAN BE CHANGED. "Waiting for Superman, is may be ONE data point, but there are very clear reasons why the main character could not effect local change: 1. He did not follow the system's rules; 2. He did not form a "community of concern."

If, as you mentioned, the stakeholders only get involved when their personal ox gets gored, then the system can chew them up and spit them out. Im' not saying it is EASY to play the game the system has created to launch complaints: In fact, I know from personal experience, it is very damn difficult. I can also tell you as a public school administrator, I appreciate WHY it is difficult for every mouth-breathing yahoo with a kid in school to change the system based on their singular (and often petty) complaint.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You want to fix schools? Encourage diversity, both cultural and religious. Encourage competition among the students. End teachers unions, keep their focus on the children instead of their pocketbooks. Don't reward a child for failure but encourage him to try harder. Plenty of things you can do.

Get rid of corporations dictating the curriculum...

 

[Samson]

Close down all public schools.
Tell parents to sort out their kids education.
By homeschooling or paying private schools.

Problem solved.

Crazy as a loon Glenn Beck said grandparents should be teaching their g'kids at home.

A very basic problem with homeschooling is that, across the board, almost to a person, the "teachers" are not qualified to do anything more than what we see on this board - rants based on whatever their particular political bias already is.

Home schooling will never turn out educated people because of that simple fact.

Instead of moving backward, regressing, we should be moving forward, progressing.

Yeah; the only "qualified" teachers are certified by the state.

And all Licensed drivers are good drivers.

Idiots give the word "progressive" a bad name.

 

[flacaltenn]

You seem to be an idealist. Yes, on paper this is how the bureaucracy called a Unified School District works. In reality it is quite different.

I'm not satisfied, so I call the teacher. Teacher says it's not her problem, she is underfunded, understaffed, has too many students, too many regulations, has to "teach to the test", etc, etc, etc. Oh, by the way, gotta put kids on medication.

Go to Principal. Same story, not enough teachers, not enough money, too many kids, too many regulations. "Thank you for your time Mr. Boatswain, I will talk to the teacher about it and we will get things fixed. Now I have to run to another meeting."

Go to the school board which, in your major cities, are all run by Democrats, who blame the lack of funding.

If you want to see a great story about what happens when idealism like yours meets reality, then watch the movie "Waiting for Superman" and you will get an idea of what works. It is a story about a guy who tried to change the system from within and found that IT CANNOT BE CHANGED, so he went outside of the system and started his own private schools which are excelling (even while taking students from the lowest economic strata).

Before I left Cali.. I watch the local school district make some amazingly stupid moves. They replaced all the carpets in our kids school -------------

BEFORE they fixed the leaks in the roof.. Yup... Needed new carpets again before the roof got fixed.. Sad part is, as we all know, the same idiots are now promoted. And THAT'S why there's not enough money in the world to fix "the system"..

The observation that there is SUPPOSED to be local control, fails because it's a monopoly proposition. There is no incentive to please the stakeholders or to be efficient. And the stakeholders only get involved when their personal ox gets gored.

That's why Waiting for Superman brought me to tears.. Yup actual tears.

Money and responsibility is too fragmented and sequestered. There needs to be flexibility in how the various mountains of individual allocations get spent. AND there needs to be innovation, competition, and accountability.

Two other "beefs" of mine..

1) If the Fed govt WAS to be involved. The most important role it could play is "ANALYZING the PROBLEMS".. They should be the yardstick to measure comparative performance. If the sentiment is AGAINST standardized testing (shouldn't be) --- then the Fed role ought to be terminated for cause. Close the entire Dept of Ed..

IF YOURE NOT ALLOWED TO MEASURE THE PROBLEM -- GET OUT OF TOWN...

2) Purposeful lowering of expectations is evil.. I don't care what group of kids the school gets "stuck with".. When PARENTS encourage performance and success, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.. There is no reason in hell for professional educators to lower the bar because of percieved inability of their charges to succeed.. Yet the message is there in poorly performing schools that not much is expected. BECAUSE the kids are smarter than acknowledged and KNOW they will be offered less than others.

The title of the tread "You want to fix schools" is a little misleading.

One individual (you) has little impact of a public system: Even a LOCAL System.

And even if a majority coalition can somehow be forged, it will not be easy to affect change.

However, the system CAN BE CHANGED. "Waiting for Superman, is may be ONE data point, but there are very clear reasons why the main character could not effect local change: 1. He did not follow the system's rules; 2. He did not form a "community of concern."

If, as you mentioned, the stakeholders only get involved when their personal ox gets gored, then the system can chew them up and spit them out. Im' not saying it is EASY to play the game the system has created to launch complaints: In fact, I know from personal experience, it is very damn difficult. I can also tell you as a public school administrator, I appreciate WHY it is difficult for every mouth-breathing yahoo with a kid in school to change the system based on their singular (and often petty) complaint.

First off -- You have my admiration and support. And you can cash that check today (for all that's it worth ) Even parents are aware of who the "mouth-breathing yahoos" are and believe it or not -- it's also annoying to us when their petty concerns become an issue.

But here's the deal --- I don't believe that you or the teachers ought to be responsible for 70% of the items that you currently are. Govt mgmt of schools has evolved to make them a one-stop shop for physical/mental health, security and law, daycare, nutrition, entertainment monitors, and off-hours surveillance of their activities. That along with the massive paperwork required for the honor of recieving funding based on need have all buried the original intent of the product.

It's a service industry. You design a product FIRST -- and then supply the appropriate superstructure for delivering it to the customer. HOPEFULLY, the product is customizable to individual requests and needs..

The SCHOOL is not Hillary's village. There already exists services for all that extraneous child nurturing stuff. And EDUCATION will never improve until all those services are delivered in a better way..

THe way I see it -- EVERYTHING ought to be "a la carte". With the classroom being the center of attention and even there --- there ought to be scads more flexibility and options.
Which might mean --- a contractor for music, a contractor for vocational, maybe even a contractor for all that standardized testing and prep that teachers abhor.

You know the value of virtual education by computer. The unions are fighting it. But I'd rather my kid get a physics lecturer from MIT virtually, and let the classroom teacher handle the overall learning that occurs around it..

You folks need relief.. We need better educated kids and MORE OF THEM..

 

[Samson]

It's a service industry. You design a product FIRST -- and then supply the appropriate superstructure for delivering it to the customer. HOPEFULLY, the product is customizable to individual requests and needs....

Thanks for the discussion. I've picked out the most interesting comment for response.

It is a LOCAL government service that is mostly locally designed, although the state, and particularly the Feds, kick in some funding based on how closely the public service resembles Federal laws designed to prevent discrimination of individuals based on race, religion, gender, and individual handicap, and most recently sexual orientation.

The service is to educate the PUBLIC; not to educate just that portion of the public that is easy to teach. Somehow this fact surprises many new teachers, who seem to be under the impression the Public school somehow eliminates kids from broken homes, kids who have been abused, kids who are psychologically damaged, kids who are mentally ill, kids who are emotionally stunted, kids who are physically handicapped, kids who are poor, kids that do not speak English, etc., etc.

You seem to be suggesting a seperate, (but equal?), customized school for each of the very few examples of imperfect students I have illustrated, leaving behind only the best and brightest kids to be educated in the public school.

The only problem becomes; who is ideally left? Certainly nothing resembling the Real Public.

The fact is, The Public isn't very pretty. People who choose to deal with The Public need to beware of this fact.

 

[auditor0007]

- A national testing standard.
- If kids don't pass the test, they don't advance to the next grade.
- Eliminate school sports. It's a massive money suck and there is no reason the public should be subsidizing hobbies.
- Tracking at the high school level (and possibly earlier).

Now there is a great idea, get rid of all sports. Let's have kids who aren't getting enough exercise as it is get even less. Instead of 33% of American kids becoming fat pigs, let's make it 67%. As for national testing standards, yes we need them and we actually have them. No Child Left Behind requires standardized testing for grades three through eight in math and reading. Here is the biggest problem with that. If a kid is already behind by third grade, the chances of getting that child back on track is very difficult. Kids learn at the fastest rate when they are younger. If a child is on track and doing well in first and second grade, there is a good chance that child will actually be ahead of schedule. On top of that, by understanding the basics, advanced learning becomes much easier and more enjoyable for the student.

Think about this for a minute. Imagine two third graders taking a standard test to determine where they are. One child understands everything plus some. The other child is struggling to understand half of the material. Just based on that information, what odds would you give each child of finishing school successfully?. Which child is most likely to become class valedictorian? Which child is most likely to drop out? These questions are not difficult to answer. Here is the thing; we already know both children's future by the time they hit third grade. What that should tell us is that there has to be a concerted effort to get every child to understand the basics by third grade and to be on track at that point. First and second grade are the two most important years in a child's life, because this is when the foundation is set for every child to move forward. If a child is behind the eight ball by third grade, the chances for that child to excel diminish greatly. And if that child happens to live in the inner city and has parents who are less than interested in their own kid's education, it becomes an even bigger problem.