CDZ You cannot fix social ills with a "wink & a nod!"

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Xelor, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Xelor
    Offline

    Xelor Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    7,695
    Thanks Received:
    1,133
    Trophy Points:
    210
    Location:
    D.C.
    Ratings:
    +4,025
    High horse! Pretension! There's nothing pretentious about about knowing what I'm talking about when it comes what is and is not rape and where lies the line between it and consensual sex. There's no "high horse" from which to assert that abuse and sexual harassment of women is wrong and not to be tolerated.

    Your ID states that you're pure trash. I'm inclined by your remarks in this thread to take your word for it. I didn't call you that. You chose that moniker for yourself; it's your own attestation.

    Read the post. I was quite clear. Read it and you won't need to ask "what."

    Why you or anyone else "turned to the right" is not relevant to the thread topic. It's not because you and those other people and you're reasons aren't the topic of the thread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  2. Xelor
    Offline

    Xelor Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    7,695
    Thanks Received:
    1,133
    Trophy Points:
    210
    Location:
    D.C.
    Ratings:
    +4,025
    I really don't care at whom specifically we can point a finger, most especially if we already know of what they've done. I care that as a society, no man or woman is willing to forebear the behavior. There are surely plenty of people who are perpetrators of the heinous acts themselves, and plenty who are complicit or acquiescent in the acts. Individuals in neither group deserve society's forbearance.

    If you want to point fingers then point them at people who have not been called out and who have victimized you, or your child, or your friend, or whomever. But if you just want to point fingers for the sake of making political hay, as it were, don't. If you have some ideas about how people can commence to bring the behavior to a halt, ideally an abrupt one, by all means, be it your own solution or an extension of one someone else has offered, let's see your ideas.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. SeaGal
    Online

    SeaGal Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2016
    Messages:
    840
    Thanks Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    180
    Location:
    a land remembered
    Ratings:
    +782
    What I will point out twas you who saw fit to selectively mention a few folks, make political hay as you call it, which tarnishes the image of a concerned citizen seeking open discussion and a solution. Let's not perpetrate this abuse by hiding the uncomfortable parts.

    I will also point out, in the spirit of this venue, that I have shared my ideas regarding what can or can not be done. What are your solutions other than handwringing and haymaking?
     
  4. Xelor
    Offline

    Xelor Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    7,695
    Thanks Received:
    1,133
    Trophy Points:
    210
    Location:
    D.C.
    Ratings:
    +4,025

    On the question of whether we, the public who don't have the details, can rightly condemn Weinstein, O'Reilly, and others who have not admitted to the allegations or attested freely to having committed acts of the sort being here discussed, well, no, we really can't in fairness do that. What we might do, however, is:
    • Demand that the appropriate people tasked with enforcing our laws take the allegations seriously and determine whether they hold water.
    • Insist that each investigative team include at least one woman on in a decision making role about whether the findings of an investigation are probative enough to merit bringing them to trail.
    • Insist that the full details of any such investigation, along with a written opinion from each decision maker for the point above, be made public.
    • Establish a public website where women/people can anonymously (from a viewing public's standpoint, but not from an investigator's standpoint) report incidents of abuse, harassment, or worse, and include strong penalties for submitting clearly spurious accusations. The second part because this is no joking matter regardless of in which position -- accused or actual abuser or abused -- one finds oneself. Women must be trusted and listened to when they make their claims, but they can't be allowed to ruin people's lives over "just any damn imagined slight."

     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  5. Xelor
    Offline

    Xelor Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    7,695
    Thanks Received:
    1,133
    Trophy Points:
    210
    Location:
    D.C.
    Ratings:
    +4,025
    But I didn't. Look at the bulk of the OP. None of it is finger pointing and haymaking. Of the men I mention, two are liberal and two are conservative. For two of them there's no question about what they've done, and for two of them there is no conclusion on whether they indeed went too far, as it were. My OP very clearly first and foremost castigates a behavior and tolerance of it and is clearly not about any of the men whom I mentioned.

    There's a huge difference between finger pointing and merely citing someone as an example because they are a current example of the behavior and phenomenon under discussion. Surely you didn't expect me to mention every philanderer and cad known to history? The men I mentioned are but foils to the discussion rubric.

    See posts 9 and 24.
     
  6. xotoxi
    Offline

    xotoxi Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    32,182
    Thanks Received:
    5,356
    Trophy Points:
    1,110
    Location:
    Yuurmaam
    Ratings:
    +7,350
    One thing I wonder is: why is everyone believing the women alleging sexual harassment by Weinstein, but not believing the women alleging sexual harassment by Trump?
     
  7. SeaGal
    Online

    SeaGal Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2016
    Messages:
    840
    Thanks Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    180
    Location:
    a land remembered
    Ratings:
    +782
    Well said, Xelor.

    On #1 - I agree, though can't say that we aren't already doing that.

    On #2 - I don't see that as necessary, but not harmful either.

    On #3 - That is fine - but not until after the case has been decided, and only if found guilty. If it goes to trial the testimony will be public anyway unless a minor is involved.

    On #4 - There are hotlines both online and phone line where abuse can be reported, In some circumstances health care providers are compelled to report instances of abuse. For minors, teachers are compelled to report suspected abuse. If you're suggesting a public venue outside official avenues, a board of shame so to speak, beyond what we already have in Facebook, ie - that makes me a bit uneasy - a spurious accusation may be clear to you but not to me. And I certainly agree that no one should be allowed to ruin someone's life over 'just any damn imagined slight'.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. Xelor
    Offline

    Xelor Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    7,695
    Thanks Received:
    1,133
    Trophy Points:
    210
    Location:
    D.C.
    Ratings:
    +4,025
    I'm not one to ask. I believe the women who've levied allegations against Trump.
     
  9. xotoxi
    Offline

    xotoxi Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    32,182
    Thanks Received:
    5,356
    Trophy Points:
    1,110
    Location:
    Yuurmaam
    Ratings:
    +7,350
    Same here. But there are gobs of people who say that the accusers are liars, yet they condemn Weinstein, and anyone that he has ever taken a picture with.

    I guess that is what is called BLIND PARTISANSHIP.
     
  10. Toronado3800
    Offline

    Toronado3800 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,260
    Thanks Received:
    330
    Trophy Points:
    85
    Ratings:
    +576
    In your opinion is a woman smart enough to be able to decide by her own free will to take money in exchange for sex on tape or off?

    If you think women are un-evolved monkeys with no brain just step up and say so don't waste my time with 10101 dodging responses.
     

Share This Page