Yes or No: On the Stimulus Bill!

[sealybobo]

As a brainless Obama supporter, I agree with it because Obama says we need it and he's always right.

Just because your guys Paulson & Bush stole $350 billion and gave it to the banks and no one can say where that money went, does not mean Obama will do the same thing.

And we elect Presidents and Senators to make these decisions for us fuck face. If their decisions suck, then we vote them out of office.

So now is the time for you to shut the fuck up and hope the new government knows what it is doing. The last one clearly did not. Hell, they caused the crisis. The only thing we aren't sure of is if they did it on purpose or not.

And big mouthed cock suckers like you said the exact same thing when Clinton laid out his economic plan, and you were wrong then too. Today is almost no different, so why don't you shut the fuck up now?

So I'm sorry, but we tried things your way, and it failed miserably. So who should we be listening to? You? Newt? Bob Barr? Rove? Ann Coulter? Hannity? Drudge? Rush? Foley? Vetter? Abramoff? McCain? Boehner? Mitch McConnell? Pahleez!!!

Bunch of scum that like this crisis because they can lower our wages and their taxes even more. Fuck that. They've emptied the treasury. Time to fill it back up!!!

Fill the treasury back up by putting ourself further in debt by $819 billion? Does that even make sense?

When you give a rich banker, oil man or defense contracter our tax dollars, yes, that is PISSING the money away.

But apparently this kind of spending is better for the economy than tax cuts. Tax cuts are less effective. But the GOP only want tax cuts, because that's what their base likes. The rich only want tax cuts. Everything doesn't work for them. But it does work for us.

Like building roads and bridges. Yes, that's going to employ people.

And Obama even took out of the bill some pet projects, like fixing up the mall of America. And still the GOP all voted against it? Well what is their solution? I don't even know. Doesn't matter, they sit at the kiddy table now. Especially after dissing Obama like that. See, we got it passed anyways. So next time we won't even ask the GOP what they like or really dislike about the bill. Fuck em.

Instead of continuing to be brainwashed to think MSNBC is lying to you just because you know Fox is, why don't you watch Rachel Maddow for a week and wake the fuck up.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Just because your guys Paulson & Bush stole $350 billion and gave it to the banks and no one can say where that money went, does not mean Obama will do the same thing.

And we elect Presidents and Senators to make these decisions for us fuck face. If their decisions suck, then we vote them out of office.

So now is the time for you to shut the fuck up and hope the new government knows what it is doing. The last one clearly did not. Hell, they caused the crisis. The only thing we aren't sure of is if they did it on purpose or not.

And big mouthed cock suckers like you said the exact same thing when Clinton laid out his economic plan, and you were wrong then too. Today is almost no different, so why don't you shut the fuck up now?

So I'm sorry, but we tried things your way, and it failed miserably. So who should we be listening to? You? Newt? Bob Barr? Rove? Ann Coulter? Hannity? Drudge? Rush? Foley? Vetter? Abramoff? McCain? Boehner? Mitch McConnell? Pahleez!!!

Bunch of scum that like this crisis because they can lower our wages and their taxes even more. Fuck that. They've emptied the treasury. Time to fill it back up!!!

Fill the treasury back up by putting ourself further in debt by $819 billion? Does that even make sense?

When you give a rich banker, oil man or defense contracter our tax dollars, yes, that is PISSING the money away.

But apparently this kind of spending is better for the economy than tax cuts. Tax cuts are less effective. But the GOP only want tax cuts, because that's what their base likes. The rich only want tax cuts. Everything doesn't work for them. But it does work for us.

Like building roads and bridges. Yes, that's going to employ people.

And Obama even took out of the bill some pet projects, like fixing up the mall of America. And still the GOP all voted against it? Well what is their solution? I don't even know. Doesn't matter, they sit at the kiddy table now. Especially after dissing Obama like that. See, we got it passed anyways. So next time we won't even ask the GOP what they like or really dislike about the bill. Fuck em.

Instead of continuing to be brainwashed to think MSNBC is lying to you just because you know Fox is, why don't you watch Rachel Maddow for a week and wake the fuck up.

I don't watch FOX or MSNBC, so I don't think either one of those stations is lying to me. As I've stated numerous times today, government spending is not going to help get us out of this recession because it takes money from the private sector which is where it needs to be.

 

[driveby]

Just because your guys Paulson & Bush stole $350 billion and gave it to the banks and no one can say where that money went, does not mean Obama will do the same thing.

And we elect Presidents and Senators to make these decisions for us fuck face. If their decisions suck, then we vote them out of office.

So now is the time for you to shut the fuck up and hope the new government knows what it is doing. The last one clearly did not. Hell, they caused the crisis. The only thing we aren't sure of is if they did it on purpose or not.

And big mouthed cock suckers like you said the exact same thing when Clinton laid out his economic plan, and you were wrong then too. Today is almost no different, so why don't you shut the fuck up now?


So I'm sorry, but we tried things your way, and it failed miserably. So who should we be listening to? You? Newt? Bob Barr? Rove? Ann Coulter? Hannity? Drudge? Rush? Foley? Vetter? Abramoff? McCain? Boehner? Mitch McConnell? Pahleez!!!

Bunch of scum that like this crisis because they can lower our wages and their taxes even more. Fuck that. They've emptied the treasury. Time to fill it back up!!!

Fill the treasury back up by putting ourself further in debt by $819 billion? Does that even make sense?

When you give a rich banker, oil man or defense contracter our tax dollars, yes, that is PISSING the money away.

But apparently this kind of spending is better for the economy than tax cuts. Tax cuts are less effective. But the GOP only want tax cuts, because that's what their base likes. The rich only want tax cuts. Everything doesn't work for them. But it does work for us.

Like building roads and bridges. Yes, that's going to employ people.

And Obama even took out of the bill some pet projects, like fixing up the mall of America. And still the GOP all voted against it? Well what is their solution? I don't even know. Doesn't matter, they sit at the kiddy table now. Especially after dissing Obama like that. See, we got it passed anyways. So next time we won't even ask the GOP what they like or really dislike about the bill. Fuck em.

Instead of continuing to be brainwashed to think MSNBC is lying to you just because you know Fox is, why don't you watch Rachel Maddow for a week and wake the fuck up.

I watch Rachel Maddow plenty and fail to see the difference between her and the rest of the holier than thou, liberal elitist douche bags......

 

[sealybobo]

Fill the treasury back up by putting ourself further in debt by $819 billion? Does that even make sense?

When you give a rich banker, oil man or defense contracter our tax dollars, yes, that is PISSING the money away.

But apparently this kind of spending is better for the economy than tax cuts. Tax cuts are less effective. But the GOP only want tax cuts, because that's what their base likes. The rich only want tax cuts. Everything doesn't work for them. But it does work for us.

Like building roads and bridges. Yes, that's going to employ people.

And Obama even took out of the bill some pet projects, like fixing up the mall of America. And still the GOP all voted against it? Well what is their solution? I don't even know. Doesn't matter, they sit at the kiddy table now. Especially after dissing Obama like that. See, we got it passed anyways. So next time we won't even ask the GOP what they like or really dislike about the bill. Fuck em.

Instead of continuing to be brainwashed to think MSNBC is lying to you just because you know Fox is, why don't you watch Rachel Maddow for a week and wake the fuck up.

I don't watch FOX or MSNBC, so I don't think either one of those stations is lying to me. As I've stated numerous times today, government spending is not going to help get us out of this recession because it takes money from the private sector which is where it needs to be.

I will agree that all Reagan did was borrow himself out of a recession.

So, I would hope that Obama would cut all wasteful spending to make up for this spending.

And I hope he undoes the Federal Reserve System, because until that is done, none of this is going to change. The Federal Reserve can crash the economy anytime it wants, and we will go running to the government to save us, and our government will feed the beast whenver it growls. Also, they will never be happy with how much they own. They own us, now they are going after the rest of the world. They can start wars, get us fighting, etc.

So hasn't every president spent their way out of a recession? Even Clinton?

So what is your solution Kevin. Yea, kind of a big question to be asked. Not so easy to answer, huh?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

When you give a rich banker, oil man or defense contracter our tax dollars, yes, that is PISSING the money away.

But apparently this kind of spending is better for the economy than tax cuts. Tax cuts are less effective. But the GOP only want tax cuts, because that's what their base likes. The rich only want tax cuts. Everything doesn't work for them. But it does work for us.

Like building roads and bridges. Yes, that's going to employ people.

And Obama even took out of the bill some pet projects, like fixing up the mall of America. And still the GOP all voted against it? Well what is their solution? I don't even know. Doesn't matter, they sit at the kiddy table now. Especially after dissing Obama like that. See, we got it passed anyways. So next time we won't even ask the GOP what they like or really dislike about the bill. Fuck em.

Instead of continuing to be brainwashed to think MSNBC is lying to you just because you know Fox is, why don't you watch Rachel Maddow for a week and wake the fuck up.

I don't watch FOX or MSNBC, so I don't think either one of those stations is lying to me. As I've stated numerous times today, government spending is not going to help get us out of this recession because it takes money from the private sector which is where it needs to be.

I will agree that all Reagan did was borrow himself out of a recession.

So, I would hope that Obama would cut all wasteful spending to make up for this spending.

And I hope he undoes the Federal Reserve System, because until that is done, none of this is going to change. The Federal Reserve can crash the economy anytime it wants, and we will go running to the government to save us, and our government will feed the beast whenver it growls. Also, they will never be happy with how much they own. They own us, now they are going after the rest of the world. They can start wars, get us fighting, etc.

So hasn't every president spent their way out of a recession? Even Clinton?

So what is your solution Kevin. Yea, kind of a big question to be asked. Not so easy to answer, huh?

My solution would be to cut taxes (the income tax would be gone), cut government spending, abolish the Fed, adopt a non-interventionist foreign policy, and let the market correct itself.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't watch FOX or MSNBC, so I don't think either one of those stations is lying to me. As I've stated numerous times today, government spending is not going to help get us out of this recession because it takes money from the private sector which is where it needs to be.

I will agree that all Reagan did was borrow himself out of a recession.

So, I would hope that Obama would cut all wasteful spending to make up for this spending.

And I hope he undoes the Federal Reserve System, because until that is done, none of this is going to change. The Federal Reserve can crash the economy anytime it wants, and we will go running to the government to save us, and our government will feed the beast whenver it growls. Also, they will never be happy with how much they own. They own us, now they are going after the rest of the world. They can start wars, get us fighting, etc.

So hasn't every president spent their way out of a recession? Even Clinton?

So what is your solution Kevin. Yea, kind of a big question to be asked. Not so easy to answer, huh?

My solution would be to cut taxes (the income tax would be gone), cut government spending, abolish the Fed, adopt a non-interventionist foreign policy, and let the market correct itself.

Would the bankers fight back and take down the economy? Would they kill any politician who tried this? Now they just ruin them. They don't even need to kill them because it is almost impossible to convince people that the income tax/federal reserve is wack.

I agree with you Kevin, but we can't get even 50% of the people on this board to agree. So why would any politician dare try to do something about this when the bankers would just ruin them politically?

If Ron Paul & Dennis Kucenich can't get anyone to listen, how is Obama going to take up their cause? Especially when you know that most of the politicians have buried their heads in the sand over this. You don't think they know this if you and I do?

 

[garyd]

That was pallets of Iraq currency printed for the new Iraqi government...

Infrastructure has been crumbling for decades ever SInce LBJ decided that the war on poverty was more important that any amont of infrastructure and that any one Texan could whip ten gooks Both Ideas were wrong especially given that the "gooks in question had AK's and the Texan an M-16 that jammed with deadly frequency because LBJ's war department decided that it would be cheaper to load the rounds with ball powder instead of the stick powder that had work so well in the earlier tests.

So Corporations for the most part abiding by the rules laid down for them by the government over the last 6 decades is screwing the people. Uh huh yeah get back to me when you have some idea how this reality functions outside the bars of your cell at the funny farm.

Wars for nothing sorry none are going on that I know of. The present wars we are in are largely to see whether Islam exposed to Democracy will mellow Islam as it once mellowed Roman Catholicim.

 

[user_name_guest]

Would you set the course for economic collapse just to win the next election?

I bet someone (or particular group) would.

Anything to get power.

If the Federal government was a corporation, it would have went out of business. That's why there is a barrier of entry to serve the American people, it's called campaign fund-raising. If i gave you a million, you better protect my special interest.

 

[garyd]

No I wouldn't I like the people of this country for the most part and I don't happen to believe that enough of them are so brain dead as to not be able to figure out that this is just the same damn Bush stimulus package that everone hated when it was Republicans doing it and that Obama doing it isn't going to make it any batter. It's 850 billion, less than half of its infrastructure and the bulk of that isn't going to provide job one to anyone not already employed by the Governemnt before the middle of 2010 if it happens that fast.

 

[user_name_guest]

No I wouldn't I like the people of this country for the most part and I don't happen to believe that enough of them are so brain dead as to not be able to figure out that this is just the same damn Bush stimulus package that everone hated when it was Republicans doing it and that Obama doing it isn't going to make it any batter. It's 850 billion, less than half of its infrastructure and the bulk of that isn't going to provide job one to anyone not already employed by the Governemnt before the middle of 2010 if it happens that fast.

Apparently they vote as a party, not for the American people. That's Washington.

 

[garyd]

99% of us don't live in WAshington Dc and we didn't like the Stimulus pakage when Bush was in Charge and we don't like it a hell of a lot better wtih Obama in Charge of it.

 

[Zoomie1980]

The stimulus bill passed te house and with a 59-41 (Yes the 2 independents are Democrats, Lieberman is liberal and the other guy is a self-proclaimed socialist), there is very very little chance the Senate won't approve the bill. This largest spending bill in US history seems inevitable! Now do you agree with it?

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's $819 billion economic stimulus package is headed for the Senate after a surprisingly partisan vote in the House in which Republicans united in opposition and 11 mostly conservative Democrats defected.

During Senate debate next week, the measure -- larger than the combined total cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- is expected to pick up at least some GOP support. But Obama's hopes of changing Washington's partisan culture went unmet despite the president's separate high-profile meetings on Capitol Hill on Tuesday with House and Senate Republicans.

The $819 billion measure has attracted criticism from Republicans and, privately, from some Democrats for spending billions of dollars on Democratic favorites like education despite questions as to whether they would really put people to work.

But with unemployment at its highest level in a quarter-century, the banking industry wobbling despite the infusion of staggering sums of bailout money and states struggling with budget crises, Democrats said the legislation was desperately needed.

Obama hailed his recovery plan, saying it would "save or create more than three million new jobs over the next few years."

The House plan largely reflects Obama's desires, but after zero GOP support, he suggested the House plan was hardly perfect.

"I hope that we can continue to strengthen this plan before it gets to my desk," Obama said.

The 244-188 House vote registered 177 Republicans unanimous in opposition.

Tens of billions of dollars would go to the states, which confront deep budget cuts of their own. That money marks an attempt to ease the recession's effect on schools and poor people receiving Medicaid health coverage. There's also money for housing weatherization, school construction, road building and other provisions. There are big investments toward Obama's campaign promise of creating jobs that can reduce the nation's dependence on foreign oil.

The centerpiece tax cut calls for a $500 break for single workers and $1,000 for couples, including those who don't earn enough to owe federal income taxes. There are also tax breaks for businesses making investments in equipment and renewable energy production.

The House vote marked merely one of several steps for the legislation, which Democratic leaders have pledged to deliver to the White House for Obama's signature by mid-February.

Already a more bipartisan -- and costlier -- measure is taking shape in the Senate, and Obama personally pledged to House and Senate Republicans in closed-door meetings on Tuesday that he is ready to accept modifications as the legislation advances.

Democrats had already dropped provisions that Republicans had mocked, including money to resod the National Mall and expand family planning programs.

The Senate bill contains a plan that would cost approximately $70 billion to make sure that about 24 million mostly middle-class taxpayers don't get hit by the alternative minimum tax. Although welcome by many lawmakers, the move wouldn't do much to boost the economy since the AMT "patch" is expected anyway later in the year if it doesn't pass now

.

The Senate is going to largely rewrite the bill....pretty much from scratch

 

[Vel]

People can't borrow anyway? You might want to rephrase that to say that people with lousy credit can't borrow anyway. That would probably be a more accurate statement. People with a decent credit history aren't having any problem finding loans.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I think it has too much democratic social agenda spending projects from the 80's & 90's...

I thought it was supposed to spend on middle-class tax cuts and infrastructure construction - school lunches are a worthy expenditure, but they don't belong in this bill.

-Joe

 

[oreo]

lets see .....

the governement created lending laws and the securites and equites market which then promtly got drunk on bad loans .....

meanwhile, the government got drunk on the profits from that exercise and bet on that tax stream by spending like crazy and creting all kinds of programs foreign and domestic ......

then the government decided to wage a war in the middle east (brilliant....no western country has ever won a war there).....

now ..... this same group is going to spend even more money to create even more programs all the while they will not cut government spending or even their own salaries.....

and to top it ..... i am told i need to pay more taxes and take one for the team .....

like somehow i am the one that got us into this mess ...... as far as i can tell not one person i voted for is in office or has been in office in the past decade .....

i will continue to pay my taxes and pay my employees and give them healthcare ...... and wait and see if anyone in the government knows how to actually run a company .....

Agreed--I am a small business too. Have been for 30+ years. Have hired & fired employees--give them good pay, benefits, etc. In truth if any of the millions of us ran our business like our government has managed our hard earned money--we would have been bankrupt within the first 15 minutes of opening up our doors.

 

[oreo]

I think it has too much democratic social agenda spending projects from the 80's & 90's...

I thought it was supposed to spend on middle-class tax cuts and infrastructure construction - school lunches are a worthy expenditure, but they don't belong in this bill.

-Joe

Neither does the 58 million for smoking cessation!! Plus florescent light bulbs for Miami residents (via the taxpayer). They can buy their own. Plus another $300 k for lights for some little league baseball field.

This is just of the pork that I remember, I am certain there is much more in there.

 

[oreo]

The stimulus bill passed te house and with a 59-41 (Yes the 2 independents are Democrats, Lieberman is liberal and the other guy is a self-proclaimed socialist), there is very very little chance the Senate won't approve the bill. This largest spending bill in US history seems inevitable! Now do you agree with it?

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama's $819 billion economic stimulus package is headed for the Senate after a surprisingly partisan vote in the House in which Republicans united in opposition and 11 mostly conservative Democrats defected.

During Senate debate next week, the measure -- larger than the combined total cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- is expected to pick up at least some GOP support. But Obama's hopes of changing Washington's partisan culture went unmet despite the president's separate high-profile meetings on Capitol Hill on Tuesday with House and Senate Republicans.

The $819 billion measure has attracted criticism from Republicans and, privately, from some Democrats for spending billions of dollars on Democratic favorites like education despite questions as to whether they would really put people to work.

But with unemployment at its highest level in a quarter-century, the banking industry wobbling despite the infusion of staggering sums of bailout money and states struggling with budget crises, Democrats said the legislation was desperately needed.

Obama hailed his recovery plan, saying it would "save or create more than three million new jobs over the next few years."

The House plan largely reflects Obama's desires, but after zero GOP support, he suggested the House plan was hardly perfect.

"I hope that we can continue to strengthen this plan before it gets to my desk," Obama said.

The 244-188 House vote registered 177 Republicans unanimous in opposition.

Tens of billions of dollars would go to the states, which confront deep budget cuts of their own. That money marks an attempt to ease the recession's effect on schools and poor people receiving Medicaid health coverage. There's also money for housing weatherization, school construction, road building and other provisions. There are big investments toward Obama's campaign promise of creating jobs that can reduce the nation's dependence on foreign oil.

The centerpiece tax cut calls for a $500 break for single workers and $1,000 for couples, including those who don't earn enough to owe federal income taxes. There are also tax breaks for businesses making investments in equipment and renewable energy production.

The House vote marked merely one of several steps for the legislation, which Democratic leaders have pledged to deliver to the White House for Obama's signature by mid-February.

Already a more bipartisan -- and costlier -- measure is taking shape in the Senate, and Obama personally pledged to House and Senate Republicans in closed-door meetings on Tuesday that he is ready to accept modifications as the legislation advances.

Democrats had already dropped provisions that Republicans had mocked, including money to resod the National Mall and expand family planning programs.

The Senate bill contains a plan that would cost approximately $70 billion to make sure that about 24 million mostly middle-class taxpayers don't get hit by the alternative minimum tax. Although welcome by many lawmakers, the move wouldn't do much to boost the economy since the AMT "patch" is expected anyway later in the year if it doesn't pass now

.

The Senate is going to largely rewrite the bill....pretty much from scratch

Where are you getting that information from? Republicans are the minority in the senate. They will have an uphill battle. Hopefully there are many senate Democrats that have some sense--& realise that this bill is loaded with pork, & is not designed to create jobs.

It's nothing more than a 15 year wish list of the democrat party. If it passes--our grandchildren will be paying for this partisan party.

 

[oreo]

99% of us don't live in WAshington Dc and we didn't like the Stimulus pakage when Bush was in Charge and we don't like it a hell of a lot better wtih Obama in Charge of it.

You're right. The first 700 billion did nothing for this economy this 813 billion won't do it either. The first was loaded with pork, & now the new one is too. Nothing has changed--with the exception of a new President, a few congressmen & senators.

The mind-set of spend, spend, spend is still there without a forethought of how we are going to repay this money. This one is not even a stimulus bill. It will not create jobs--(within all sectors of the economy.)

I am certain that bridge & road contractors are excited over this bill. But, I see nothing in there for the other thousands of people in other sectors that create jobs or economic stability.

 

[mash107]

99% of us don't live in WAshington Dc and we didn't like the Stimulus pakage when Bush was in Charge and we don't like it a hell of a lot better wtih Obama in Charge of it.

You're right. The first 700 billion did nothing for this economy this 813 billion won't do it either. The first was loaded with pork, & now the new one is too. Nothing has changed--with the exception of a new President, a few congressmen & senators.

The mind-set of spend, spend, spend is still there without a forethought of how we are going to repay this money. This one is not even a stimulus bill. It will not create jobs--(within all sectors of the economy.)

I am certain that bridge & road contractors are excited over this bill. But, I see nothing in there for the other thousands of people in other sectors that create jobs or economic stability.

It's not only not helpful, but it's very destructive. When you take money out of the private economy, you destroy jobs. It may be that the $700B "stimulus" package was somewhat responsible for the many layoffs that has happened recently-- one never knows. Spending is -not- the backbone of any economy. Savings and producing is. We need to make shit that others that have saved money for the last few decades can buy, and rebuild our own savings. Companies get a majority of their capital from those savings, and if there aren't any, how do they pay employees?

 

[editec]

I don't watch FOX or MSNBC, so I don't think either one of those stations is lying to me. As I've stated numerous times today, government spending is not going to help get us out of this recession because it takes money from the private sector which is where it needs to be.

I will agree that all Reagan did was borrow himself out of a recession.

So, I would hope that Obama would cut all wasteful spending to make up for this spending.

And I hope he undoes the Federal Reserve System, because until that is done, none of this is going to change. The Federal Reserve can crash the economy anytime it wants, and we will go running to the government to save us, and our government will feed the beast whenver it growls. Also, they will never be happy with how much they own. They own us, now they are going after the rest of the world. They can start wars, get us fighting, etc.

So hasn't every president spent their way out of a recession? Even Clinton?

So what is your solution Kevin. Yea, kind of a big question to be asked. Not so easy to answer, huh?

My solution would be to cut taxes (the income tax would be gone), cut government spending, abolish the Fed, adopt a non-interventionist foreign policy, and let the market correct itself.

In other words your idea is to end all government?!

So in your opinion, the way to save the United States is to cease being the USA.

Great plan...about what I'd expect from somebody goofy enough to declare libertarian anarchy preferable to representational government taxation.