Yes, one CAN shoot an escaping mass-murderer

[K9Buck]

As usual, I was right and you were wrong.

Excerpt:
...such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others. Pp. 7-22. [471 U.S. 1, 2]

FindLaw's United States Supreme Court case and opinions.

 

[SavannahMann]

Yes. And no. It used to be that the burden of proof was on the cop to prove that he had reason to believe that the fleeing felon rule should apply. What made him think that the escaping guy was a danger. Now the situation has flipped. You have to prove the cop knew the guy wasn’t dangerous. Giving the cop the benefit of the doubt in questionable situations became taking their word as gospel.

 

[K9Buck]

Yes. And no. It used to be that the burden of proof was on the cop to prove that he had reason to believe that the fleeing felon rule should apply. What made him think that the escaping guy was a danger. Now the situation has flipped. You have to prove the cop knew the guy wasn’t dangerous. Giving the cop the benefit of the doubt in questionable situations became taking their word as gospel.

There was a discussion in the Waffle House threat wherein I correctly stated that a citizen would have been justified to shoot the mass-murderer in order to prevent his escape IF that was the only available option. Other members of this forum stated that I was wrong and that a citizen or even a cop would be prosecuted since the mass-murderer was running away. I tried to explain to them, to no avail, that it would be reasonable use of force since it was plainly evident that the killer posed a mortal threat to others. The Supreme Court permits such use of force. None of twats that said I was wrong had the integrity to visit this thread and acknowledge that they were wrong.

 

[SavannahMann]

Yes. And no. It used to be that the burden of proof was on the cop to prove that he had reason to believe that the fleeing felon rule should apply. What made him think that the escaping guy was a danger. Now the situation has flipped. You have to prove the cop knew the guy wasn’t dangerous. Giving the cop the benefit of the doubt in questionable situations became taking their word as gospel.

There was a discussion in the Waffle House threat wherein I correctly stated that a citizen would have been justified to shoot the mass-murderer in order to prevent his escape IF that was the only available option. Other members of this forum stated that I was wrong and that a citizen or even a cop would be prosecuted since the mass-murderer was running away. I tried to explain to them, to no avail, that it would be reasonable use of force since it was plainly evident that the killer posed a mortal threat to others. The Supreme Court permits such use of force. None of twats that said I was wrong had the integrity to visit this thread and acknowledge that they were wrong.

Well there you are mixing apples and oranges. The cop may have the authority but the citizen does not. Citizens have been charged before for shooting someone who is fleeing. The citizens right to use force is in self defense, or defense of another from imminent threat. The Castle Doctrine for example, does not give me the right to chase a burglar down, or shoot him in the yard when he’s fled the house. It means I can stand my own ground, without the legal requirement to retreat. It does not give me the right to pursue, or shoot someone who is fleeing. The argument that he had shot and killed four people does not mean he is an imminent threat to anyone else after he is disarmed, and fleeing. You might win in court, perhaps even probably win, but you would likely be charged.

So the citizens in the Waffle House if they had shot the moron while he was fleeing, would probably be charged. Depending on the state’s laws.

I am unaware of similar cases, but there are plenty of examples of fleeing burglars and those all add up to no consistent rule. Seriously. It depends on a lot of things.

Can One Shoot A Fleeing Robber?

I’d advise you to join some of the organizations out there, like USCCA and have a lawyer available in such an instance. When the cops show up, don’t say anything but your name, address, and point out the evidence. Then ask for your lawyer. Because it is likely you will talk your way into prison if you aren’t absolutely sure about what the law says, and what you are doing.

I’ve been a member of USCCA for years now. I’ve come up with scenarios and situations in which I would be comfortable shooting, and able to defend the action before the law. The person running away, isn’t really one of those situations. Then again, I hadn’t considered a murderer dropping his weapon and fleeing. But here is the rub, if he’s gone, then the immediate threat to me and others is gone too. With that departure, the justification for shooting becomes far more murky.

 

[K9Buck]

I would take that shot and that Supreme Court ruling would apply to me just as it would apply to a cop. Why wouldn't it? No reasonable judge or jury in the country would convict me and any DA that would charge me would be laughed out of office.

 

[K9Buck]

SavannahMann Why wouldn't the SCOTUS decision above be extended to a citizen? For that matter, I bet it's already happened.

 

[SavannahMann]

Yeah. Um. How can I say this. It is apparent that you are the heir to the throne for the kingdom of fools. You ain’t a cop. Dreaming that the laws and authority of a cop will divest upon you is damned foolish. People have been charged for shooting at fleeing felons before. If a cop shoots a bystander, oh well, he was doing his duty. If a citizen shoots a bystander it is at a minimum a massive lawsuit that you don’t have the cop union to cover your costs. You don’t have immunity. You are merely a fool with delusions of grandeur.

If you manage to shoot the baddie fleeing then again it is a lawsuit. Castle Doctrine don’t apply. You will likely spend the rest of your life paying the felon. I thought I had the same rights as a cop won’t save you.

As for being charged. Reckless Endangerment for spraying rounds at a running man. If a bystander got hit, then you are looking at assault with a deadly weapon. If you are going to carry as a citizen, restraint is what you need. And if you think you can get on Fox News and look like a hero then I have more bad news for you. You will come off looking like a nut. Especially if you argue the authority of a cop is yours as a citizen.

Get rid of the police scanner. Stop checking out the most wanted webpage. Or if you really want to be a hero, join the fire department.

 

[K9Buck]

Yeah. Um. How can I say this. It is apparent that you are the heir to the throne for the kingdom of fools. You ain’t a cop. Dreaming that the laws and authority of a cop will divest upon you is damned foolish. People have been charged for shooting at fleeing felons before. If a cop shoots a bystander, oh well, he was doing his duty. If a citizen shoots a bystander it is at a minimum a massive lawsuit that you don’t have the cop union to cover your costs. You don’t have immunity. You are merely a fool with delusions of grandeur.

If you manage to shoot the baddie fleeing then again it is a lawsuit. Castle Doctrine don’t apply. You will likely spend the rest of your life paying the felon. I thought I had the same rights as a cop won’t save you.

As for being charged. Reckless Endangerment for spraying rounds at a running man. If a bystander got hit, then you are looking at assault with a deadly weapon. If you are going to carry as a citizen, restraint is what you need. And if you think you can get on Fox News and look like a hero then I have more bad news for you. You will come off looking like a nut. Especially if you argue the authority of a cop is yours as a citizen.

Get rid of the police scanner. Stop checking out the most wanted webpage. Or if you really want to be a hero, join the fire department.

No reason for all the rhetoric and hyperbole. We're just talking.

If what you say is true, then why wasn't this guy charged?

The man who took down the Texas church gunman

 

[K9Buck]

SavannahMann Why wouldn't the SCOTUS decision above be extended to a citizen? For that matter, I bet it's already happened.

Yep. I'm right - again.

The man who took down the Texas church gunman

 

[K9Buck]

SavannahMann

Here's another. Why wasn't he charged? The gunmen were fleeing and this old guy shot them anyway. Why wasn't he charged?

 

[SavannahMann]

90 days in jail for Minn. homeowner who fatally shot fleeing intruder

Why You Don’t Shoot An Intruder In The Back: Homeowner Charged With Murder

Homeowner arrested after shooting intruder fleeing his home

The ‘Castle Law’: To shoot or not to shoot

Deputies: Homeowner arrested after fatally shooting intruder in shower

Dumbass.

 

[K9Buck]

90 days in jail for Minn. homeowner who fatally shot fleeing intruder

Why You Don’t Shoot An Intruder In The Back: Homeowner Charged With Murder

Homeowner arrested after shooting intruder fleeing his home

The ‘Castle Law’: To shoot or not to shoot

Deputies: Homeowner arrested after fatally shooting intruder in shower

Dumbass.

Apples and oranges. You're too fucking stupid to engage further. It's evident that this discussion hurt your twat. Bye kunt.

 

[ATL]

Well...that escalated quickly.

 

[bodecea]

As usual, I was right and you were wrong.

Excerpt:
...such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others. Pp. 7-22. [471 U.S. 1, 2]

FindLaw's United States Supreme Court case and opinions.

Hard to do with a jammed gun.

And a smart move to get rid of the gun behind the counter....what with cops shooting black people.......

 

[K9Buck]

90 days in jail for Minn. homeowner who fatally shot fleeing intruder

Why You Don’t Shoot An Intruder In The Back: Homeowner Charged With Murder

Homeowner arrested after shooting intruder fleeing his home

The ‘Castle Law’: To shoot or not to shoot

Deputies: Homeowner arrested after fatally shooting intruder in shower

Dumbass.

Hey kunt. Why wasn't the Texas hero charged? Eh kunt? Do you want to answer or will continue to go full kunt mode? I'm right, you're wrong and that hurts your twat.

 

[Defiant1]

I love these snowflakes who think you shouldn't shoot someone in the back.

Where the fuck are you supposed to shoot them if they don't turn around?

 

[SavannahMann]

For every example where someone isn’t charged, there are at least one, probably two where someone is charged. So roll the dice. Take your chances. Don’t bend over to pick up the soap.

 

[K9Buck]

For every example where someone isn’t charged, there are at least one, probably two where someone is charged. So roll the dice. Take your chances. Don’t bend over to pick up the soap.

The hero in Texas is a perfect example of a citizen shooting a FLEEING mass murderer and not only was he NOT charged, he was praised by law enforcement and the whole country. So, yea, a citizen CAN legally shoot a fleeing mass murderer. Thread.

 

[jillian]

As usual, I was right and you were wrong.

Excerpt:
...such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others. Pp. 7-22. [471 U.S. 1, 2]

FindLaw's United States Supreme Court case and opinions.

that isn't what that case says.

in that case the suspect was a burgler.... not armed and not threatening anyone. and the Tennessee statute was found unconstitutional because it did not provide for such a circumstance.

try again, dude.

 

[K9Buck]

I love these snowflakes who think you shouldn't shoot someone in the back.

Where the fuck are you supposed to shoot them if they don't turn around?

We're not talking about someone who committed armed robbery and is escaping, we're talking about someone who walked into a place and committed mass murder and then fled. If I've got a clean shot on him and that's the ONLY way to prevent him from escaping, I'm taking that shot.