Yeah! This is what I want...Canadian style health care!

[Gadawg73]

The American health care model is one of health insurance.
The ones that have it pay increased premiums for the ones that refuse to buy it.
And millions can not afford it and specialists care is denied to those that do not have it and those that can not afford it.
Similar to a government run system where the insurance company, not the customer, pays the bills.
Very inneficient.

ah straw arguments.

I wasnt aware that blue shield covered the area hospital from losses, or that my premium increased because they cover non plan participants.

Evil insurance bastards forcing the doctors to charge over 200 for an office visit.

Most Americans are indoctrinated having someone else pay for their insurance they have no clue how economics works.
Doctors and hospitals treat the uninsured. Hint: they get little or NO $$$ doing so.
Doctors and hospitals are for profit entities. Hint: they are in business to make $$$
Doctors and hospitals make most of their $$$ NOT from the consmuers, BUT FROM INSURANCE COMAPANIES.
Doctors and hospitals HAVE TO CHARGE SOMEONE MORE $$$ to make up for
treating the uninsured.
That someone is INSURANCE COMPANIES.
Insurance companies are for profit entities: Hint: they are in business to make $$$.
Insurance companies collect premiums from the consumer to pay doctors and hospitals.
The premiums GO UP when the doctors and hospitals raise their fees because of having to care for the uninsured that do not pay their bills.
Conservatives understand this very well. We run businesses and have our $$$ at risk doing so. Health care costs are killing my 3 businesses and ALL American competitiveness.

 

[Full-Auto]

The American health care model is one of health insurance.
The ones that have it pay increased premiums for the ones that refuse to buy it.
And millions can not afford it and specialists care is denied to those that do not have it and those that can not afford it.
Similar to a government run system where the insurance company, not the customer, pays the bills.
Very inneficient.

ah straw arguments.

I wasnt aware that blue shield covered the area hospital from losses, or that my premium increased because they cover non plan participants.

Evil insurance bastards forcing the doctors to charge over 200 for an office visit.

Most Americans are indoctrinated having someone else pay for their insurance they have no clue how economics works.
Doctors and hospitals treat the uninsured. Hint: they get little or NO $$$ doing so.
Doctors and hospitals are for profit entities. Hint: they are in business to make $$$
Doctors and hospitals make most of their $$$ NOT from the consmuers, BUT FROM INSURANCE COMAPANIES.
Doctors and hospitals HAVE TO CHARGE SOMEONE MORE $$$ to make up for
treating the uninsured.
That someone is INSURANCE COMPANIES.
Insurance companies are for profit entities: Hint: they are in business to make $$$.
Insurance companies collect premiums from the consumer to pay doctors and hospitals.
The premiums GO UP when the doctors and hospitals raise their fees because of having to care for the uninsured that do not pay their bills.
Conservatives understand this very well. We run businesses and have our $$$ at risk doing so. Health care costs are killing my 3 businesses and ALL American competitiveness.

It all leads to government interference. Or these are the results of government interference. No worries we reduced medicare pay outs so more doctors stop accepting it.

problem solved.

 

[Gadawg73]

here is something i saw in an international news section......from Sweden ....that great health mecca...

Man's penis amputated following misdiagnosis - The Local

Has happened a lot here with baby boys getting circumcissions.
Cauterizing device gone wrong.
Wasn't amputated but badly burned causes it to fall off within a week.
We lead the world in doctor's negligence.

*Emphasis mine*

Do we? Really? Can you back that up with actual statistics... and I don't mean stats about how many people sue for negligence. Anyone with half a brain knows that people suing does not represent actual negligence.

Medical malpractice cases are rarely filed and are few and far between. You can believe in myths but you need to believe infacts.
CDC:
100,000 deaths a year from medical physician error
6th leading cause of death in America.
250,000 severe injuries

Smarts is to put the $$$ in PREVENTING the negligence instead of denying it.
You do know that ALL med/mal cases have to have a DOCTOR or team of doctors:
1. Review the case
2. Make their report and analysis written
3. Declare that under their medical experience as a doctor there WAS NEGLIGENCE
4. And that the standard of care was not to regs.

If they do not have another doctor testify to that they can NOT GET INTO COURT.

Insurance companies created the myth of sue happy patients.
We do have those that want to give doctors immunity from negligence but thank God there are still enough doctors and patriots and defenders of freedom that believe in constituional rights and the jury system.

How come you didn't know any of these facts? What lawyer would put 200K in preparing a med/mal case where there was no negligence? Would you rule in favor of someone that had no case?
Real world Moe. Please join us and turn the TV off.

 

[jgarden]

Seems there were these two dudes canoeing from Alaska to Seattle on a two-month long trip. They got sick (acute stomach virus) in Canada, found a small town that had a doctor, only to find that it would cost them $700.00 each just to see the doctor. Then they'd still have to pay for the treatment. They suffered through it 'til they found a bigger town with an indigent care center.

Yeah, that's what I want in America.

Country Comparison :: Life expectancy at birth

..... Life expectancy at birth is also a measure of overall quality of life in a country and summarizes the mortality at all ages. It can also be thought of as indicating the potential return on investment in human capital .....

Rank - country - (years) - Date of Information
**********************************
1 Monaco 89.78 2010 est.

2 Macau 84.38 2010 est.

3 San Marino 82.95 2010 est.

4 Andorra 82.36 2010 est.

5 Japan 82.17 2010 est.

6 Guernsey 82.08 2010 est.

7 Singapore 82.06 2010 est.

8 Hong Kong 81.96 2010 est.

9 Australia 81.72 2010 est.

10 Canada 81.29 2010 est.

11 Jersey 81.28 2010 est.

12 France 81.09 2010 est.

13 Spain 81.07 2010 est.

14 Sweden 80.97 2010 est.

15 Switzerland 80.97 2010 est.

16 Israel 80.86 2010 est.

17 Iceland 80.79 2010 est.

18 Anguilla 80.77 2010 est.

19 Bermuda 80.60 2010 est.

20 Cayman Islands 80.57 2010 est.

21 Isle of Man 80.53 2010 est.

22 New Zealand 80.48 2010 est.

23 Italy 80.33 2010 est.

24 Liechtenstein 80.19 2010 est.

25 Norway 80.08 2010 est.

26 Ireland 80.07 2010 est.

27 Jordan 79.92 2010 est.

28 United Kingdom 79.92 2010 est.

29 Greece 79.80 2010 est.

30 Saint Pierre and Miquelon 79.74 2010 est.

31 Austria 79.65 2010 est.

32 Malta 79.59 2010 est.

33 Faroe Islands 79.58 2010 est.

34 Netherlands 79.55 2010 est.

35 Luxembourg 79.48 2010 est.

36 Germany 79.41 2010 est.

37 Belgium 79.37 2010 est.

38 Virgin Islands 79.19 2010 est.

39 Finland 79.13 2010 est.

40 Wallis and Futuna 78.83 2010 est.

41 European Union 78.82 2010 est.

42 Korea, South 78.81 2010 est.

43 Puerto Rico 78.77 2010 est.

44 Bosnia and Herzegovina 78.66 2010 est.

45 Saint Helena, Ascension, and Tristan da Cunha 78.60 2010 est.

46 Gibraltar 78.53 2010 est.

47 Denmark 78.47 2010 est.

48 Portugal 78.38 2010 est.

49 United States 78.24 2010 est.

50 Taiwan 78.15 2010 est.

51 Kuwait 77.89 2010 est.

52 Cyprus 77.66 2010 est.

53 Cuba 77.64 2010 est.

cia world factbook 2010

According to the CIA World Factbook (a branch of the US government the last time I checked), each of the "2 dudes" would have been far better off
- paying the $700,
- cutting short their canoe trip,
- applying for Canadian citizenship and
- adding 3.05 years to their lifespan (if they lived in "red" states, it could be double).

In fact if the "2 dudes" wanted a longer life expectancy (a measure of overall quality of life) they could apply for citizenship in any of the 48 other countries with average life expectancies that all rank higher than their US counterpart!

 

[Revere]

Does anyone in the United States go to any of those other countries for health care? Or do they come here if they want to buy the best?

Lifespan is a junk stat. When you factor out the high American accidental death rate and race based diseases, it's a wash.

 

[Bern80]

Ah, American health care. Where if any of the 57 million uninsured citizens merely chip a tooth or break a leg, they fall into an endless hole of debt due to the treatment being so unacceptably expensive. Hell, an ambulance ride to the emergency room is what? 500 dollars?

Again with ncorrect presumptions Bones. it would be wise of you to objectively check your premises before you look like an idiot.

The 57 million uninsured is a horribly inflated number for starters. The true number of people who would buy insurance by choice if they could afford it is maybe half of that.

Oh and let's not forget how the insurance companies, at their whim, will deny you coverage if you have pre-existing conditions.

On a whim? I think not. Should you be able to buy fire insurance AFTER your house catches fire and recieve the same price and benefits as someone who's house is not on fire?

Health care here is top notch...


...you can afford it.

So you define the quality of a health care system simply on how much YOU have to pay for service? Fucking briliant.

 

[Bern80]

Lifespan is a junk stat. When you factor out the high American accidental death rate and race based diseases, it's a wash.

Agreed. It makes the head hurt to try and figure out what these pro-UHCers think they are providing evidence for when they cite life expectencies of different countries. How can any logical thinking person conclude that the avg. life expectency of an entire contry speaks directly and only to the quality of it's health care system. Are they really so stupid as to think that is the perdominant factor in determining how long someone will live?

 

[jgarden]

Does anyone in the United States go to any of those other countries for health care? Or do they come here if they want to buy the best?

Lifespan is a junk stat. When you factor out the high American accidental death rate and race based diseases, it's a wash.

"Revere" presents us with a "junk" argument!

Instead of focusing on the 60,000 to 85,000 "medical tourists" who are traveling TO THE US for healthcare annually, perhaps "Revere" would care to comment on the estimated 750,000 American "medical tourists" that traveled FROM THE US to other countries in 2007 (McKinsey and Co. Report, 2008)

Than doesn't even begin to address the approximately 50 million uninsured US citizens who are left to stand on the outside looking in at a system where they can't afford to " buy the best."

 

[Full-Auto]

Does anyone in the United States go to any of those other countries for health care? Or do they come here if they want to buy the best?

Lifespan is a junk stat. When you factor out the high American accidental death rate and race based diseases, it's a wash.

"Revere" presents us with a "junk" argument!

Instead of focusing medical tourists that come to US for medical care, perhaps "Revere" should be focusing on the approximately 50 million uninsured US citizens who are left to stand on the outside looking in.

Actually it is your argument that is junk. I suggest you break down those uninsured numbers and the reasons.

You would be shocked.

 

[California Girl]

Has happened a lot here with baby boys getting circumcissions.
Cauterizing device gone wrong.
Wasn't amputated but badly burned causes it to fall off within a week.
We lead the world in doctor's negligence.

*Emphasis mine*

Do we? Really? Can you back that up with actual statistics... and I don't mean stats about how many people sue for negligence. Anyone with half a brain knows that people suing does not represent actual negligence.

Medical malpractice cases are rarely filed and are few and far between. You can believe in myths but you need to believe infacts.
CDC:
100,000 deaths a year from medical physician error
6th leading cause of death in America.
250,000 severe injuries

Smarts is to put the $$$ in PREVENTING the negligence instead of denying it.
You do know that ALL med/mal cases have to have a DOCTOR or team of doctors:
1. Review the case
2. Make their report and analysis written
3. Declare that under their medical experience as a doctor there WAS NEGLIGENCE
4. And that the standard of care was not to regs.

If they do not have another doctor testify to that they can NOT GET INTO COURT.

Insurance companies created the myth of sue happy patients.
We do have those that want to give doctors immunity from negligence but thank God there are still enough doctors and patriots and defenders of freedom that believe in constituional rights and the jury system.

How come you didn't know any of these facts? What lawyer would put 200K in preparing a med/mal case where there was no negligence? Would you rule in favor of someone that had no case?
Real world Moe. Please join us and turn the TV off.

Your enthusiasm to declare the US as leading the world in negligence still doesn't stand up.... mmmmk?

 

[Gadawg73]

Does anyone in the United States go to any of those other countries for health care? Or do they come here if they want to buy the best?

Lifespan is a junk stat. When you factor out the high American accidental death rate and race based diseases, it's a wash.

They go to India for all kinds of surgeries and transplants.
Cheaper and same care.

 

[Revere]

Does anyone in the United States go to any of those other countries for health care? Or do they come here if they want to buy the best?

Lifespan is a junk stat. When you factor out the high American accidental death rate and race based diseases, it's a wash.

They go to India for all kinds of surgeries and transplants.
Cheaper and same care.

Really? Are their private 747s parked in India belonging to US politicians and captains of industry like there are at the airport near Mayo?

Did Ted Kennedy go to India, or any other country for that matter, to deal with his brain cancer?

 

[HUGGY]

Then don't buy insurance.

We have 3 classes of Americans these days.

Producers
Enablers
Moochers

The producers buy their own health insurance.
The enablers (the politicians and their supporters) help those without health insurance take $ at the point of a gun from the producers to pay for the health care of the moochers.
The moochers do not buy health insurance and mooch off the rest of us.

So if people don't fit into your neat little plan they should just give up and die? I think you make a great argument for people to just write off your crap and grow up with the idea that they should just take what they need. That is true AND PURE economics as you see it. Why not cut to the chase and REALLY be selfish? WORK? Hell no..that might benefit someone else! Fuck it! Be FREE! If you see it ...like it...want it...need it...take it!

 

[Revere]

Nobody lacks health care in the US.

 

[Greenbeard]

Mexico's become a bigger draw in the last decade or two.

Like vacations in sparkling Cancún or Cabo San Lucas, health care in Mexico is becoming high-quality, cheap and convenient, advocates say. As more Americans go without heath insurance or feel the pinch of managed care, some are making a run for the border for treatment ranging from routine care to live-saving procedures. [...]

Indeed, Mexico is becoming a top destination for the multibillion-dollar "medical tourism" industry, joining countries including India, Thailand, Singapore and Malaysia. Experts estimate as many as 150,000 Americans travel abroad every year for lower-cost medical care.

Although care in Mexico may not be as inexpensive as care in some Asian nations, the proximity to the U.S. is a big advantage to patients. Some U.S. companies are now sending employees to Mexico for their annual checkups.

 

[Revere]

Do you get a free flack jacket with your checkup in Mexico?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Ah, American health care. Where if any of the 57 million uninsured citizens merely chip a tooth or break a leg, they fall into an endless hole of debt due to the treatment being so unacceptably expensive. Hell, an ambulance ride to the emergency room is what? 500 dollars?

Oh and let's not forget how the insurance companies, at their whim, will deny you coverage if you have pre-existing conditions.

Health care here is top notch...


...you can afford it.

now we are up to 57 million.....last time we had a tread on this it was only 40 million......and in another it was 30-35 mill......

 

[asaratis]

I assume these guys were american? Do you expect Canada to pay for our underinsured masses? Where did you get this info?
I had a friend that had to cut her trip to amsterdam short for a similar situation. It isn't just Canada. It's the rest of the western world being pissed at us for our governments multitudes of asinine, idiotic decisions.

The info came from a televised documentary of their trip. It was on Adventure Sports, a series presented on Universal Sports Network. I have no reason to doubt its truthfulness. I don't doubt the story of your friend's similar circumstance either. I do doubt seriously your conclusion regarding the cause of the lack of service. I suspect that if either case had happened in the USA, treatment would have been prompt whether they had $700 or not.

Does anyone in the United States go to any of those other countries for health care? Or do they come here if they want to buy the best?

Lifespan is a junk stat. When you factor out the high American accidental death rate and race based diseases, it's a wash.

"Revere" presents us with a "junk" argument!

Instead of focusing on the 60,000 to 85,000 "medical tourists" who are traveling TO THE US for healthcare annually, perhaps "Revere" would care to comment on the estimated 750,000 American "medical tourists" that traveled FROM THE US to other countries in 2007 (McKinsey and Co. Report, 2008)

Than doesn't even begin to address the approximately 50 million uninsured US citizens who are left to stand on the outside looking in at a system where they can't afford to " buy the best."

When will you people stop using that silly argument that there are 50 million uninsured Americans? The number has been debunked several times and you people just cannot comprehend. The majority of uninsured people in the USA CHOOSE TO BE SO!! THEY CAN AFFORD IT! THEY DON'T WANT IT!

Grow up and be honest for a change! Make that a New Year's Resolution..."I will not lie about the number of uninsured Americans ever again!"

 

[Toro]

Mexico's become a bigger draw in the last decade or two.

Like vacations in sparkling Cancún or Cabo San Lucas, health care in Mexico is becoming high-quality, cheap and convenient, advocates say. As more Americans go without heath insurance or feel the pinch of managed care, some are making a run for the border for treatment ranging from routine care to live-saving procedures. [...]

Indeed, Mexico is becoming a top destination for the multibillion-dollar "medical tourism" industry, joining countries including India, Thailand, Singapore and Malaysia. Experts estimate as many as 150,000 Americans travel abroad every year for lower-cost medical care.

Although care in Mexico may not be as inexpensive as care in some Asian nations, the proximity to the U.S. is a big advantage to patients. Some U.S. companies are now sending employees to Mexico for their annual checkups.

My father has gone down to Mexico for dental work a few times. The cost of getting major dental procedures is about a tenth the cost in Canada and the US.

 

[Ernie S.]

Then don't buy insurance.

We have 3 classes of Americans these days.

Producers
Enablers
Moochers

The producers buy their own health insurance.
The enablers (the politicians and their supporters) help those without health insurance take $ at the point of a gun from the producers to pay for the health care of the moochers.
The moochers do not buy health insurance and mooch off the rest of us.

How's this for a novel approach? I went to the doctor yesterday. I got an exam, a couple tests and 3 prescriptions. I paid cash. What does that make me? A Producer, an enablers or a moocher?