Y'all may not like it, but, here it is anyway

[Gdjjr]

I know this isn't going to change anyone's mind- too many believe only they know all there is to know about everything there is to know anything about and have made their mind up they are right despite evidence to the contrary- I'm amazed at the lack of curiosity illustrated by the refusal to read anything (more than 2 sentences) if it's contrary to what one feels-

Man has been migrating since he discovered putting one foot in front of the other took him somewhere other than where he was. Some, such as I, believe in the founding philosophy set forth in the DoI- we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights endowed by his Creator and among these are the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness- I don't see any caveats in that phrase.

It's pretty obvious I'm out numbered in the belief that one is better than another simply because he was born in a particular place- in reading the many anti-immigrant posts I see a lot of fear being used as an excuse- a fear by those who believe they are special and subscribe to the US being exceptional- I don't think fear mongering is exceptional. It's pretty common actually, for tyrants and control freaks, and is used to sell a lot of crap- can you say 9/11? Marijuana is bad? To keep them from attacking us here? Just give up a little of your rights and you'll have more security. Is that exceptional? What was Ben Franklin credited with saying?

Then there are those who say; as long as they do it legally it's perfectly okay- if what you say is true about lowering wages etc., how does being legal change that? Do they, just all of a sudden, become exceptional too?

Then there are the obvious racist cries about the white man being displaced as top of the food chain. How can that happen to special or exceptional Individuals? If indeed one is special or exceptional it seems to me one would have, at their disposal, the means to overcome whatever is thrown in the way of their rise to fame and/or fortune. It seems that the exceptional will find a way to maintain his superiority with his Individual effort by exercising his right to pursue his life as he sees fit to achieve the happiness he has a right to. Unless of course he prefers a little security in place of a little liberty and demands the gov't protect him from the latest fear de jour- what was it Ben Franklin is credited with saying?

Maybe the superiority is merely superficial- maybe exceptional doesn't exist. Maybe being special isn't all it's cracked up to be.


Please, read all the above prior to commenting. It's in simple, easy to understand English. Just like the Declaration of Independence which is arguably the most profound document ever penned- sadly too many only pay a minimum of lip service to it and feel there is a caveat when they do, somewhere.

 

[Rambunctious]

 

[TNHarley]

Legal is fine with me. I'm even ok with making it easier to become a citizen.
I am totally against illegals in this country. They get paid lower wages, dont pay taxes the rest of us pay and many send much of their money out of country.
I dont believe in us being exceptional in any way. Look at our voting block (conplete fucking morons) and our govt. Nothing to brag about.

 

[ChrisL]

We have social service programs that we pay for and we cannot afford to take care of the rest of the world. If you want your social service programs to remain in place, then you need to keep illegals out and limit immigration. This is not the 1800s. Times and people have changed.

 

[TNHarley]

I hope one day humans evolve and borders become unnecessary.
But that day isnt even close to happening.

 

[Gdjjr]

I hope one day humans evolve and borders become unnecessary.
But that day isnt even close to happening.

The longest journey begins with the first step.

 

[TNHarley]

I hope one day humans evolve and borders become unnecessary.
But that day isnt even close to happening.

The longest journey begins with the first step.

While i would normally agree, I see this as different than the normal application.
Look at the fundamentalist Muslim.. Christian fundamentalists are bad enough. We dont need them strapping bombs to their children over a 1500 year old political disagreement over here too. Maybe they wouldnt even want to come to this "blasphemous" country.. Idk.
It is a thoughtful subject.

 

[justoffal]

I know this isn't going to change anyone's mind- too many believe only they know all there is to know about everything there is to know anything about and have made their mind up they are right despite evidence to the contrary- I'm amazed at the lack of curiosity illustrated by the refusal to read anything (more than 2 sentences) if it's contrary to what one feels-

Man has been migrating since he discovered putting one foot in front of the other took him somewhere other than where he was. Some, such as I, believe in the founding philosophy set forth in the DoI- we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights endowed by his Creator and among these are the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness- I don't see any caveats in that phrase.

It's pretty obvious I'm out numbered in the belief that one is better than another simply because he was born in a particular place- in reading the many anti-immigrant posts I see a lot of fear being used as an excuse- a fear by those who believe they are special and subscribe to the US being exceptional- I don't think fear mongering is exceptional. It's pretty common actually, for tyrants and control freaks, and is used to sell a lot of crap- can you say 9/11? Marijuana is bad? To keep them from attacking us here? Just give up a little of your rights and you'll have more security. Is that exceptional? What was Ben Franklin credited with saying?

Then there are those who say; as long as they do it legally it's perfectly okay- if what you say is true about lowering wages etc., how does being legal change that? Do they, just all of a sudden, become exceptional too?

Then there are the obvious racist cries about the white man being displaced as top of the food chain. How can that happen to special or exceptional Individuals? If indeed one is special or exceptional it seems to me one would have, at their disposal, the means to overcome whatever is thrown in the way of their rise to fame and/or fortune. It seems that the exceptional will find a way to maintain his superiority with his Individual effort by exercising his right to pursue his life as he sees fit to achieve the happiness he has a right to. Unless of course he prefers a little security in place of a little liberty and demands the gov't protect him from the latest fear de jour- what was it Ben Franklin is credited with saying?

Maybe the superiority is merely superficial- maybe exceptional doesn't exist. Maybe being special isn't all it's cracked up to be.


Please, read all the above prior to commenting. It's in simple, easy to understand English. Just like the Declaration of Independence which is arguably the most profound document ever penned- sadly too many only pay a minimum of lip service to it and feel there is a caveat when they do, somewhere.

Where do you keep your refrigerator?

Jo

 

[Gdjjr]

We have social service programs that we pay for and we cannot afford to take care of the rest of the world. If you want your social service programs to remain in place, then you need to keep illegals out and limit immigration. This is not the 1800s. Times and people have changed.

Actually, as I said, man has been migrating since he discovered putting one foot in front of the other took him some other place- way before the 1800's.
Being driven by an analytical thought and logic, I have to ask; what social services are you referring to? The ones you don't want or the ones you do want? Whose fault is it there are social services to begin with? The immigrants? People haven't changed, only laws have been introduced to control/restrict liberty.
I don't see any citizen saying we have to take care of the world- that is the empty suits in DC acting in that manner though they do have their acolytes who are blood thirsty for whoever the elders in their church says is their enemy which changes with wind direction-

 

[ChrisL]

We have social service programs that we pay for and we cannot afford to take care of the rest of the world. If you want your social service programs to remain in place, then you need to keep illegals out and limit immigration. This is not the 1800s. Times and people have changed.

Actually, as I said, man has been migrating since he discovered putting one foot in front of the other took him some other place- way before the 1800's.
Being driven by an analytical thought and logic, I have to ask; what social services are you referring to? The ones you don't want or the ones you do want? Whose fault is it there are social services to begin with? The immigrants? People haven't changed, only laws have been introduced to control/restrict liberty.
I don't see any citizen saying we have to take care of the world- that is the empty suits in DC acting in that manner though they do have their acolytes who are blood thirsty for whoever the elders in their church says is their enemy which changes with wind direction-

Irrelevant. We have social services and cannot afford to pay everyone's way. Let's be realistic.

 

[Gdjjr]

Legal is fine with me. I'm even ok with making it easier to become a citizen.
I am totally against illegals in this country. They get paid lower wages, dont pay taxes the rest of us pay and many send much of their money out of country.
I dont believe in us being exceptional in any way. Look at our voting block (conplete fucking morons) and our govt. Nothing to brag about.

I remember when I was in the Navy when we pulled into a foreign Port we were encouraged to exchange US Silver Certificates for Military Script before going ashore or only on the base- in reflection I surmised that was to prevent the US Silver supply depletion- then we were forced to accept Federal Reserve Notes and the best way to spread those notes world wide is to help them be spread world wide- so, who's at fault?

As for wages they will accept less, but, the market determines their purchasing power. How does that affect what you're paid?
They have a skill or skills and sell it to the market just like you do. Is it their fault the market seeks out the highest profit? Why can they live cheaper than you? Do they not have the same rights you do to pursue their life and receive the reward for it?

 

[ChrisL]

Legal is fine with me. I'm even ok with making it easier to become a citizen.
I am totally against illegals in this country. They get paid lower wages, dont pay taxes the rest of us pay and many send much of their money out of country.
I dont believe in us being exceptional in any way. Look at our voting block (conplete fucking morons) and our govt. Nothing to brag about.

I remember when I was in the Navy when we pulled into a foreign Port we were encouraged to exchange US Silver Certificates for Military Script before going ashore or only on the base- in reflection I surmised that was to prevent the US Silver supply depletion- then we were forced to accept Federal Reserve Notes and the best way to spread those notes world wide is to help them be spread world wide- so, who's at fault?

As for wages they will accept less, but, the market determines their purchasing power. How does that affect what you're paid?
They have a skill or skills and sell it to the market just like you do. Is it their fault the market seeks out the highest profit? Why can they live cheaper than you? Do they not have the same rights you do to pursue their life and receive the reward for it?

No country has "open borders" because it would be stupid and unsustainable and lead to huge problems. Just common sense, really.

 

[Gdjjr]

Irrelevant. We have social services and cannot afford to pay everyone's way. Let's be realistic.

Irrelevant to you not to me. I am very realistic- I am also very philosophical and pragmatic- migration will never stop. Period.
The "reality" of history proves it.

 

[ChrisL]

Irrelevant. We have social services and cannot afford to pay everyone's way. Let's be realistic.

Irrelevant to you not to me. I am very realistic- I am also very philosophical and pragmatic- migration will never stop. Period.
The "reality" of history proves it.

Proves what? Back in the old days (whatever era you are alluding to when there were "open borders") were different times. There weren't as many people. In the early days of America, we needed more people to start up a society. That is not the case anymore. We have almost 400 billion people in this country.

 

[TNHarley]

Legal is fine with me. I'm even ok with making it easier to become a citizen.
I am totally against illegals in this country. They get paid lower wages, dont pay taxes the rest of us pay and many send much of their money out of country.
I dont believe in us being exceptional in any way. Look at our voting block (conplete fucking morons) and our govt. Nothing to brag about.

I remember when I was in the Navy when we pulled into a foreign Port we were encouraged to exchange US Silver Certificates for Military Script before going ashore or only on the base- in reflection I surmised that was to prevent the US Silver supply depletion- then we were forced to accept Federal Reserve Notes and the best way to spread those notes world wide is to help them be spread world wide- so, who's at fault?

As for wages they will accept less, but, the market determines their purchasing power. How does that affect what you're paid?
They have a skill or skills and sell it to the market just like you do. Is it their fault the market seeks out the highest profit? Why can they live cheaper than you? Do they not have the same rights you do to pursue their life and receive the reward for it?

I get what youbare saying and even agree but illegals still hurt this country. Thats Why im ok with making it easier for citizenship

 

[ChrisL]

Our economy would collapse under the burden, unless you are for exterminating all social services programs that working citizens are forced to pay for.

 

[ChrisL]

This is the problem. These people think, oh what a good idea. That's nice. Without ever looking beyond their own damn noses. They never take into consideration long term consequences. EVERYTHING has consequences.

 

[Gdjjr]

I see no one has put out a substantive, innovative, alternative. Imagine that. Give up liberty for a little security- you deserve neither. The founders were pretty sharp guys- they were quite innovative. They were substantive as well.

Like I said, I know I'll change no ones mind- but, I will, have and will continue to spread seeds of liberty- which when they take root are a plant of rapid growth-
TennHarley is the only poster so far to even think- everything else is regurgitation- for that I applaud him. It's not a common trait on message boards, or in DC or the general population- yes, with a buck fifty my applause will get a cup of coffee..... somewhere.

 

[MarathonMike]

Prior to FDR, immigrants came to America not expecting anything except for the chance to be free. The only assistance was managed at the local level. Only the truly destitute were given assistance and if you could work for it, you did and it was usually hard labor. It was a matter of pride to NOT take assistance.

The game changer IMO was the welfare state that was created under FDR. That meant that instead of assistance coming from donations, fees or whatever raised at the local level it was paid for from Federal tax revenue. The money available for welfare exploded, the corruption and fraud exploded, the number of people both citizens and illegals applying for welfare exploded etc etc.

So now nearly a century later, America resembles the big freebie machine instead of being the country where you are allowed to breathe free and pursue your happiness and success. This article is a very good summary of how and when the welfare state came to be.

Constitutional Rights Foundation

 

[ChrisL]

I see no one has put out a substantive, innovative, alternative. Imagine that. Give up liberty for a little security- you deserve neither. The founders were pretty sharp guys- they were quite innovative. They were substantive as well.

Like I said, I know I'll change no ones mind- but, I will, have and will continue to spread seeds of liberty- which when they take root are a plant of rapid growth-
TennHarley is the only poster so far to even think- everything else is regurgitation- for that I applaud him. It's not a common trait on message boards, or in DC or the general population- yes, with a buck fifty my applause will get a cup of coffee..... somewhere.

Borders protect my liberty.