WVa Mine Disaster

[Mariner]

Conservatives usually argue against government oversight and regulations--"get the government off our backs." The recent mine disaster in WVa, however, is a reminder of the importance of oversight. Private companies don't always place the health of their employees above the bottom line--they exist, after all, to serve their shareholders' bottom lines. The whole point of a "corporation" is to create a legal entity that shields individuals from liability for the corporation's behavior. So you can sue GM, but you can't sue its president.

The mine in question had been cited 208 times in 2005 for safety violations, but under the Republican Congress's lax oversight and enfocement, many of the citations were fined the minimum $60 rather than the maximum $60,000.

Of course, no one can answer whether higher fines would have motivated the mine's owners to fix the problems, or whether adhering to standards for gases/dust/ventilation, etc. would actually have prevented the disaster, but there's a long a history of occupational safety cases that suggests it's quite likely better enforcement would have saved these men's lives. Safety regulations evolve based on real-world events.

People say I blame Bush for everything, but I won't blame him for this one--he sought to increase the maximum fines on coal mines, but industry-friendly congressional Republicans refused.

Mariner.

 

[dmp]

[admin hat = off]
Fuck you for making the tragedy political. You and your kind are more worried about finger-pointing than finding 'solutions'.

Enjoy your day.

 

[manu1959]

what an asshat

 

[Bonnie]

See Mariner, here's the thing.. Tragedy happens all over, all the time. There is no government on this planet that can regulate, forsee, or fine their way out of that. It's just not going to happen..In a perfect world maybe, even then very doubtful.

 

[5stringJeff]

Conservatives usually argue against government oversight and regulations--"get the government off our backs." The recent mine disaster in WVa, however, is a reminder of the importance of oversight. Private companies don't always place the health of their employees above the bottom line--they exist, after all, to serve their shareholders' bottom lines. The whole point of a "corporation" is to create a legal entity that shields individuals from liability for the corporation's behavior. So you can sue GM, but you can't sue its president.

The mine in question had been cited 208 times in 2005 for safety violations, but under the Republican Congress's lax oversight and enfocement, many of the citations were fined the minimum $60 rather than the maximum $60,000.

Of course, no one can answer whether higher fines would have motivated the mine's owners to fix the problems, or whether adhering to standards for gases/dust/ventilation, etc. would actually have prevented the disaster, but there's a long a history of occupational safety cases that suggests it's quite likely better enforcement would have saved these men's lives. Safety regulations evolve based on real-world events.

People say I blame Bush for everything, but I won't blame him for this one--he sought to increase the maximum fines on coal mines, but industry-friendly congressional Republicans refused.

Mariner.

Seriously... if you're gonna point fingers, at least wait until the funerals.

 

[Mariner]

violations, and is slapped on the wrist instead of properly punished--by politicians openly committed to mining, logging, and energy interests--then I think critics have every right to make the "tragedy" into politics. If it's negligence, it's not a tragedy, it's the expected result of a weakened inspection and regulation system.

I was perfectly clear in my initial post that there's no proof yet the disaster was caused by malfeasance on the part of the mine owners--but there's every reason to think it might have been. We'll find out soon enough, and I'll bet if it was you'll see some West Virginians making politics out of the tragedy.

And even if it wasn't, those miniature $60 fines for taking risks with employees' lives are worth discussing, as an example of the importance of government regulation of private enterprise. Conservatives love to celebrate the upside of business, but shy away from examining the downside.

Mariner.

 

[Bonnie]

violations, and is slapped on the wrist instead of properly punished--by politicians openly committed to mining, logging, and energy interests--then I think critics have every right to make the "tragedy" into politics. If it's negligence, it's not a tragedy, it's the expected result of a weakened inspection and regulation system.

I was perfectly clear in my initial post that there's no proof yet the disaster was caused by malfeasance on the part of the mine owners--but there's every reason to think it might have been. We'll find out soon enough, and I'll bet if it was you'll see some West Virginians making politics out of the tragedy.

And even if it wasn't, those miniature $60 fines for taking risks with employees' lives are worth discussing, as an example of the importance of government regulation of private enterprise. Conservatives love to celebrate the upside of business, but shy away from examining the downside.

Mariner.

Regulations are necessary to a point and if directed/used in the most efficient ways, most conservatives agree with that, the problem is over and needless regulation instituted simply to make the lawmaker take an empty pat of him/herself on the back, or put in place to stifle capitalism, which is what happens most of the time. What happened here was a horrible tragedy, and I think once an investigation is done the parties that are responsible will be held that way.

 

[manu1959]

violations, and is slapped on the wrist instead of properly punished--by politicians openly committed to mining, logging, and energy interests--then I think critics have every right to make the "tragedy" into politics. If it's negligence, it's not a tragedy, it's the expected result of a weakened inspection and regulation system.

I was perfectly clear in my initial post that there's no proof yet the disaster was caused by malfeasance on the part of the mine owners--but there's every reason to think it might have been. We'll find out soon enough, and I'll bet if it was you'll see some West Virginians making politics out of the tragedy.

And even if it wasn't, those miniature $60 fines for taking risks with employees' lives are worth discussing, as an example of the importance of government regulation of private enterprise. Conservatives love to celebrate the upside of business, but shy away from examining the downside.

Mariner.

post a link to the list of saftey violations and the severity of each......or shut up

 

[RAGE]

Actually I think someone else made it political





Less than 24-hours after 12 of the 13 workers trapped by a West Virginia mine explosion were found dead, critics were already politicizing the disaster, with at least one mine safety expert blaming President Bush.

"This mine should have been closed," former director of the National Mine Safety and Health Academy, Jack Spadaro, told Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes" Wednesday night.

"There were too many serious [safety] violations and the record is very clear," he added.

Asked why the allegedly unsafe mine continued to operate, Spadaro contended:

"I think it's because of the current Bush administration's policies toward mine operators and their reluctance to take the strong enforcement action that's sometimes necessary."

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Actually I think someone else made it political





Less than 24-hours after 12 of the 13 workers trapped by a West Virginia mine explosion were found dead, critics were already politicizing the disaster, with at least one mine safety expert blaming President Bush.

"This mine should have been closed," former director of the National Mine Safety and Health Academy, Jack Spadaro, told Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes" Wednesday night.

"There were too many serious [safety] violations and the record is very clear," he added.

Asked why the allegedly unsafe mine continued to operate, Spadaro contended:

"I think it's because of the current Bush administration's policies toward mine operators and their reluctance to take the strong enforcement action that's sometimes necessary."

You got a link to a transcript, sir?

 

[Mariner]

there needs to be a healthy tension between regulating for the sake of the public good versus freeing businesses to go about their business without onerous requirements.

Manu--here's a link concerning the safety violations, including the relaxing of safety rules, such as a requirement for two exits, since Bush took office:

"With over $465 million in operating revenue in the third quarter of 2005, ICG has shown marked profitability and growth since its 2002 founding. The company reported a net income of $8.6 million in the third quarter alone, a significant improvement over its $37.2 million loss reported just a year before.

By contrast, fines for the 205 MSHA-issued citations last year barely top $24,000, though the agency has yet to announce fine amounts for a handful of the more recent violations.

Labor and workplace-safety groups have been warning for years that fines and other punishments are too lenient to affect changes in most companies’ practices.

The company has paid just $14,471 of the over $24,000 in MSHA fines to date.

Meanwhile, federal government’s appetite for mine safety enforcement has been dwindling. According to an AFL-CIO analysis, the Bush administration cut 170 positions from MSHA and has not proposed a single new mine-safety standard or rule during its tenure.

Additionally, many regulations aimed specifically at mine safety have been eroded or done away with under the Bush administration, including a 2000 rule titled "Escapeways and Refuges." The rule required all mines to have at least two separate exit paths but was altered shortly after Bush took office by then MSHA head David Lauriski.

Lauriski, a former mining-company official who took over MSHA in 2001 and resigned at the end of Bush's first term, pulled the rule "in light of resource constraints and changing safety and health regulatory priorities," according to official data compiled by the government watchdog OMB Watch. The regulation is one of seventeen aimed at making mining less dangerous undone by MSHA since 2001."

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=2721

And from the New York Times, we learn of Lauriski's past:

"In 1997, as a top executive of a Utah mining company, David Lauriski proposed a measure that could allow some operators to let coal-dust levels rise substantially in mines. The plan went nowhere in the government.
Last year, it found enthusiastic backing from one government official - Mr. Lauriski himself. Now head of the Mine Safety and Health Administration, he revived the proposal despite objections by union officials and health experts that it could put miners at greater risk of black-lung disease....

Safety and environmental regulations often shift with control of the White House, but the Bush administration's approach to coal mining has been a particularly potent example of the blend of politics and policy.

In addition to Mr. Lauriski, who spent 30 years in the coal industry, Mr. Bush tapped a handful of other industry executives and lobbyists to help oversee safety and environmental regulations.

In all, the mine safety agency has rescinded more than a half-dozen proposals intended to make coal miners' jobs safer, including steps to limit miners' exposure to toxic chemicals. One rule pushed by the agency would make it easier for companies to use diesel generators underground, which miners say could increase the risk of fire.

In an interview, Mr. Lauriski said that the proposals that were canceled were unnecessary. He said the agency had instead concentrated on other measures "we believed were important to pursue."...

Over the last six years, coal companies have donated $9 million to federal political candidates and party organizations, and 90 percent has gone to Republicans, according to the Center for Responsive Politics."

8/9/2004 (I can't post a link, because this article is available only to Times Subscribers)

Another article from the Times archive shows that Bush's mine policies have been under criticism in the past:

"Mine Safety Official Critical of Policies Faces Firing

By JAMES DAO (NYT) 1398 words
Published: November 9, 2003

The Bush administration has notified a mine safety official who has sharply criticized federal mining policies that it intends to fire him, according to documents and the official's lawyers.
The official, Jack Spadaro, the superintendent of the National Mine Health and Safety Academy in Beckley, W.Va., has been an outspoken critic of a federal investigation into a huge spill of coal sludge in eastern Kentucky three years ago. The accident, at the Martin County Coal Company, is considered one of the biggest environmental disasters in the Appalachian region.


Mr. Spadaro accused political appointees in the Mine Safety and Health Administration of cutting the investigation short, playing down the coal company's culpability and not holding federal regulators accountable for weak oversight. He was a member of the team investigating the spill before he resigned in protest in 2001.

Mr. Spadaro has also raised questions about no-bid contracts that he contends were awarded to friends and former business associates of David D. Lauriski, the assistant secretary of labor for mine safety and health, and other senior mine safety officials. His complaints led to an investigation by the Department of Labor's inspector general."

Mariner

 

[dmp]

:blah2: :blah2::blah2::blah2:

Mariner

Sad.

 

[Mr. P]

The Feds have dropped the ball on mines since Bush took office, that’s clear.

This Sago mine, should have been shut-down a few years ago until they were in compliance, IMO.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10706084/

 

[Hobbit]

[/civility]

What the f***ing hell is wrong with you lefties?! Can't you let a tragedy pass before you start throwing blame around everywhere? 12 people are dead...DEAD!! Those twelve people will never again hug their families, talk to their friends. They'll never laugh, cry, play with their children, watch TV, or buy groceries ever again...ever. That's not a blunder. It's not a political shortcoming. It's not a symptom of an underregulated business. It's a f***cking tragedy. The families of twelve people will soon have to see their dads, brothers, sons, cousins, etc. laying pale and lifeless in a casket as a final farewell, that will last until judgement day. So instead of trying to put political targets in your crosshairs, why don't you help to mourn the dead first, then, instead of trying to figure out how to connect the dots back to Bush, maybe we could just concentrate on what caused the accident, then fix the problem, and if it leads back to politicians, then so be it. You little bastards are so damn fixated on getting Bush that you can't even stop to mourn the dead. Just like the 1000 and then later 2000 soldiers in Iraq, they're nothing more than tools to be used to get at Bush. You people make me wanna vomit.

 

[RAGE]

You got a link to a transcript, sir?

yup

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/1/4/220540.shtml

 

[William Joyce]

I don't totally reject Mariner's point that SOME government regulation is warranted where corporations have little incentive to protect employee safety, but some points:

1. Mariner seems to be blaming those nasty Republicans for killing the miners. I don't believe that. First, it's not Congressional Republicans who oversee mine safety, it's federal administrative bureaucracies. They operate day to day, under Republican or Democrat presidents and Congresses, and I doubt it makes much difference. A little, but not much. It's not like Regulator Bob says, "You know, with Bush and DeLay in office, I'm not going to hand out any fines today. But I will if Hillary is elected." Nah. Not how it works. Increasing fines? Please. If the evil corporation needs regulation in the first place, jacking up the fine is NOT going to make the Coal CEO turn into a safety-first bleeding heart overnight. Meanwhile,

2. Coal mining is inherently dangerous. There is nothing Republican or Democrat about the geophysical reality that burrowing miles down into rocky earth to extract coal is risky. Almost like blaming Bush for high winds in New Orleans. Sorry, not the GOP's fault. People just use whatever's around to bash their political enemies. Finally,

3. I don't see liberals stopping their use of electricity because they think coal mining is evil.

 

[Mariner]

First of all, I was very clear that for all we know, even if the companies owning the mine had been fined to the fullest extent of the law and had repaired every safety detail they left unattended, the disaster may still have happened. As you say, mining is dangerous, and always has been. Please don't mis-state my position.

You say that regulations are the work of federal beaurocracies, which makes them less political. This used to be true. President Bush, however, has seen fit to replace many of the leaders of important day-to-day beaurocracies with his friends and allies, often executives of the very industries that the regulations are supposed to regulate. If you read the excerpts I post above, you'll see that he installed a former coal mine operator as the chief regulator for coal mines. Remember "Heck of a job, Brownie," who was sending emails about his natty new clothes the morning that he was supposed to be mobilising FEMA to help in New Orleans? Similarly, energy company executives now make environmental policy, which should be seen as an obvious conflict of interest.

You can pretty much expect that if you install a former coal operator as the head of coal regulation, then cut the budget and the number of regulators, that the regulations will be less well enforced--which is good for the mining companies and bad for the workers.

That's assuming that the regulations themselves are appropriate. I'm in agreement with many people here that regulations can sometimes go overboard. But health and safety regulations are almost always based on good analysis of actual risks and events, in the same way that traffic lights are often put up by small towns after repeat fatal accidents in the same intersection. So these are about the most trustworthy regulations we have. For example, a rule that there be two ways out of a mining area makes a lot of sense, and it won't be surprising if it eventually turns out that following this rule would have saved the miners' lives.

Mariner.

 

[Mariner]

clear why good regulations and an active, confident government are an important corrective to raw capitalism. Personally, I see capitalism as the engine of the economy. Regulations, taxes, and government agencies guide it in various ways. If no one steers, unbridled capitalism quickly devalues workers' lives and safety, and degrades the environment. Condisider this:

January 10, 2006
News Analysis
Endemic Problem of Safety in Coal Mining
By GARDINER HARRIS

Once every few years, a disaster in a tiny Appalachian town reminds the nation that coal mining remains a dangerous occupation. The cause of the latest incident, which claimed 12 lives at the Sago Mine in West Virginia, is unknown and under investigation.

But certain problems are endemic in the industry: old safety equipment, lax enforcement and a get-along culture in which safety complaints are discouraged, according to an examination of government and court records and interviews this past week and over the years with hundreds of miners, dozens of mine inspectors and mine safety experts.

Even well-run mines are frightening places. The average Appalachian mine is less than five feet high, with some less than three feet. Some miners take straws with their lunches because there is not enough space to tilt a soft-drink can over their heads. The roof often pings and rumbles like ice on a frozen pond.

While a few corporate giants own multiple mines, there are many small companies with only a few mines. These operations are usually nonunion. They use reconditioned equipment and hire unskilled men with few other prospects who often worry that large fines will shut down their mines.

"Many miners look at inspectors as their enemies," said Tony Oppegard, a former top federal mine official in the Clinton administration and the former prosecutor of mine safety violations in Kentucky.

Throughout the industry, the oxygen canisters, the telephones, the ventilation equipment and almost every other piece of safety equipment are nearly identical to those used more than 20 years ago. Some mines still extract coal with explosives, a technique that has changed little in 100 years.

Mines are routinely cited for violating federal safety rules. Federal inspections occur at least four times a year.

For some mining operations, paying fines is less expensive than adhering to the rules, miners say. And a few mines do not bother to pay at all. Since 2000, 84 mines have not paid any citation levied against them that exceeded $10,000, according to federal records. Indeed, miners say that they are sometimes forced to accept unsafe working conditions in return for employment.

The proof is that miners continue to die - and not just from roof falls, electrocutions and explosions. Black lung disease still stalks the coal fields even though the technology to prevent it has been available for nearly 100 years, and federal rules that would eliminate it have been in place for more than 35 years.

Still, the nation's coal mines are far safer today. The toll from black lung has plunged to around 1,000 deaths annually now. Accidental deaths are also down. In 1907, 3,242 miners died in accidents in the United States, the worst year on record. Last year, 22 died.

But new technologies that might improve working conditions often enter mining slowly. Consider the oxygen canister carried by most miners. Weighing six pounds, it provides an hour's worth of oxygen through a chemical reaction. The canisters have not changed substantially in more than 20 years.

An hour might have been enough to allow the Sago miners to reach fresh air, but the miners did not know that. Had their canisters delivered more air, they might have risked a two-mile crawl instead of retreating and waiting for rescuers who arrived too late.

Last year, researchers at Wheeling Jesuit University in Wheeling, W.Va., did a brief technology survey to determine if these devices could be improved to deliver more oxygen in a smaller, lighter container.

"What we found is that there are technologies that can be used to improve the system to do all three," said Michelle Dougherty, a director at the university's national technology transfer center. "I can't answer why no one in the private sector has thought of this before."

Bruce Watzman, vice president of safety, health and human resources at the National Mining Association, said it was not the responsibility of coal operators to develop new safety equipment. "We're not in the self-rescuer manufacturing business," Mr. Watzman said.

Lewis V. Wade, senior science adviser for the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, which sponsored the Wheeling Jesuit survey, said mining was "a small market."

Communications systems in underground mines are also often aging and rudimentary. Most mines have just a few telephones attached to cables - identical to systems in use for decades. In disasters, a crew may be trapped far from a phone.

A few mines have antennas that allow radio communication by any miner from any place in a mine. Every miner at the Willow Creek mine in Price, Utah, escaped a major fire in November 1998 in part because many crew members had hand-held radios and were alerted almost immediately, Mr. Oppegard said.

Suzy Bohnert, a spokeswoman for the federal mine safety agency, said the agency had not mandated the new communications systems because they did not work well in all mines.

Even when safer techniques become widely available, federal regulators rarely ban older, less-safe production techniques. Like Sago, most mines use machines to claw coal from mountains, a far safer method than the old system that relied on explosives. Using explosives in small, narrow spaces creates obvious safety problems, but the technique is still allowed. In Kentucky alone, one in five mines are still "shooting" with explosives, according to state records.

Federal inspectors almost never close a mine even when they find repeated instances of life-threatening safety problems.

The Sago Mine had 202 safety violations last year, a number that included 16 blatant violations that were considered immediate hazards to miners' safety. Like Sago, six other underground mines in West Virginia have 100 to 150 employees, according to federal records. Not one of the six had a similar blatant violation last year, according to federal mine records. Sago has had 14 major roof falls since June. Its injury rate last year was three times the national average.

Yesterday, Gov. Joe Manchin III of West Virginia named J. Davitt McAteer, who oversaw the mine safety agency in the Clinton administration, to oversee the work of state and federal investigators and issue a report on last week's disaster by July 1.

"We will pursue every lead," Mr. McAteer said. "We will take every step necessary to find the problems and to fix those problems."

Wilbur L. Ross Jr., whose investment firm took over the Sago Mine in November, vehemently denied in an interview last week that his company had compromised worker safety. Indeed, company officials said safety had improved since Mr. Ross's firm took over.

But Sago has had three major cave-ins since the takeover, including one on Nov. 27 that dropped a rock 70 feet long, 20 feet wide and 18 feet high, roughly the size of a blue whale.

"I think this mine should have been closed," said Jack Spadaro, who retired in 2004 as the director of the National Mine Health and Safety Academy in Beckley, W.Va.

Even when inspectors find violations and the mine agency levies fines, the citations are often ignored, although this does not appear to be the case with Sago.

Ms. Bohnert, of the federal mine safety agency, did not answer a question via e-mail about why the agency failed to collect fines.

In Pike County, Ky., for instance, eight operating mines have paid only a tiny fraction of the fines levied against them for years, according to federal records. Midgard Mining of Pike County has more than $350,000 in fines that have accumulated since 1996. In 1998, the company paid $700 to the agency. Since then, nothing, the records show.

Josh Osborne owns Midgard Mining, according to federal mine records. Mr. Osborne's father, Stanley Osborne, of Jonancy, Ky., owns a mine near Jenkins, Ky., called Misty Mountain No. 5, according to federal court records. Neither man could be reached.

This Jenkins mine suggests another reason that coal mining continues to be dangerous: workers who complain about unsafe conditions are sometimes fired or penalized. Wade Damron complained to the mine superintendent after the brakes gave out on a coal scoop on Aug. 30, 2004.

Mr. Damron and three other miners subsequently lost their jobs.

Todd T. Hodgdon, a federal administrative law judge, ruled in October that the miners had been fired unfairly, and awarded each back pay and fined Misty Mountain and Stanley Osborne $10,000.

Some miners say that they are expected to put up with such problems to keep their jobs, Mr. Oppegard said.

"It's a Hobson's choice," he said, "of their safety or their jobs."

Andy Lehren contributed reporting for this article.

[Note: I can't give you a link, since the article was accessible to me electronically via subscription to the NYT. This is the complete text of the article, which appeared on page A13 of today's edition.]