Writer's Corner - Elitist for sure, but honesty and a cold hard look at reality.

[Martin Eden Mercury]

I am an op-ed contributer on the USMESSAGEBOARD.COM website. I take my role here, and the responsibility that comes with it very seriously. Two months ago, the Administrator cereal_killer put out a call for submissions for aspiring contributors. It is my opinion that as the process played out, it appears to have confused and soured some members on what was a pretty worthy goal. In my opinion, that goal was to empower members in reaching a wider audience, while increasing the visibility of USMB itself. USMB has members who have periodically wondered aloud how to attract flesh blood to the melting-pot that is USMB.

We all know from experience that message boards come and go. But, my observations lead me to believe, that people who inhabit and thrive on message boards are people who are attached to, and ultimately loyal to the practices of online engagement and involvement. And what better engagement and involvement is there than to be an op-ed contributer - a writer? Elitist for sure, but honesty and a cold hard look at reality will tell you that many people prefer to stay in the background, or to contribute in ways that do not demand much attention, dedication, and passion. Not everybody is, wants to, or even can be a writer. So cereal_killer's call in my opinion, was to the ego and vanity of a particular type of individual. Are you that individual? Because if you are, I ask you to review exactly what it was that ck was appealing to and asking for.

ck asked for writers who were up the challenge of writing an op-ed devoid of inflammatory and/or insulting language. I'm no innocent. I know most anything can and will be viewed as inflammatory by somebody out there; but there are agreed upon community standards in the public arena: a consensus if you will. If you or I were political operatives or candidates, I would hope we would want to be held to some sort of standard.

Now of course we all see people across the political spectrum, who violate those standards. They exist, and they are the exceptions that prove the rule. Interesting enough is the fact that because of our own partisan stances, we may even cheer or bemoan the violation at times. That's human nature, and the beast that is partisan politics. But I believe most all of us could agree; we would like to see some content and opinion that is neither inflammatory or wrapped up in insulting language meant to inflame. Having a writer's op-ed board that resembles the inflammatory content in most threads here, and taking those threads and giving them some sort of a higher privilege -- what would be the point? The Writer's Corner is a good idea waiting to be exploited by a few writers out there.

I believe ck wisely suggested aspiring contributors 'pick their favorite online rag, and check out their op-ed's, and get a taste' for what USMB is looking for. He also wrote that to "keep things balanced we will be looking for 3 or 6 writers in total. One or two from each party (Republican, Democrat and Libertarian/Independent). Yes Libertarian and Independent are two different parties, but in the spirit of this endeavor we will apply the KISS principle."

The search criteria as it evolved, expanded to seeking writers separate of any political party affiliation. It included an appeal for writers that could represent views across the ideological spectrum within America. Right now we have two writers on the op-ed team. We need a few more in order to flesh-out our team.

Opinions? Constructive criticisms?

 

[Compost]

I doubt that many people here think that an op ed forum here is a bad idea. It just seems to me that most serious writers are not eager to participate simply because serious writing takes time, far more time than remarking on threads. In short, unpaid gigs such as this are for those who have the extra time to craft an op ed without concern for the time/money factor. Such people exist, surely, they just haven't all shown up yet.

 

[koshergrl]

There's nothing more exasperating than crappy editors.

Just saying. I submitted a good piece and was told that because of a couple of grating assertions it was a liability risk to print as it was hahahaha. I've actually written more adamant stuff for real publications so, meh. I consequently saw multiple productions by people I've never heard of that were not as well written and every bit as a liability risk (that is to say, not a risk at all..).

So much for that. If you don't understand the nature of OP/ED, you can't write yourself, and you are otherwise clueless about liability..then you (I'm using a collective you, not a personal one) have no business editing OPs. Or moderating, as far as that goes.

Per usual, usmb set the rules, and then had no idea how to follow them. Yeah, you're going to chase away every decent writer in existence. Nobody worthwhile will put out any effort to write a piece just to have hacks censure it and beg to get their paws on it so they can take credit...after telling the real writer it's just not very good.

Good writers don't fall for that shit.

 

[Martin Eden Mercury]

Thank you for the reply Ms. Compost. I have been lurking and monitoring threads and posts for weeks now, trying to get a handle on what actually transpires on USMB. My observations lead me to believe there are more than just a few members here for whom time is not an issue. If money were a concern, I would think people would be out making money. I stated earlier that I believed "people who inhabit and thrive on message boards are people who are attached to, and ultimately loyal to the practices of online engagement and involvement." and this is where the appeal to ego comes in.

again, thank you
Mem

 

[Compost]

Thank you for the reply Ms. Compost. I have been lurking and monitoring threads and posts for weeks now, trying to get a handle on what actually transpires on USMB. My observations lead me to believe there are more than just a few members here for whom time is not an issue. If money were a concern, I would think people would be out making money. I stated earlier that I believed "people who inhabit and thrive on message boards are people who are attached to, and ultimately loyal to the practices of online engagement and involvement." and this is where the appeal to ego comes in.

again, thank you
Mem

Well, Mr. Mercury, in your lurking, you probably read a post or two of mine. If I was the ego driven creature you seek, I might be insulted. Thank you for your response. Best of luck in your search for op edders.

 

[Martin Eden Mercury]

Thank you for such an exquisite example of inflammatory and/or insulting language in a post Ms. koshergrl. To address a point you made, there are many real publications out there that forbid such writing as they have standards. Standards neither you nor I may agree with, but then again, obviously neither you nor I have been invited to write at such publications.

I wonder if you would be open to listing some of the publications, which published pieces you submitted? It would help us out a great deal to actually know what you consider real publications. I am not asking you to reveal what you wrote, only where what you claim to have written was published.

again, thank you Ms. koshergrl
Mem

 

[Martin Eden Mercury]

I am left wondering if there is anybody out there who will submit a piece to me, if I asked for any? I evidently intend to get my paws on something so well written, it can be published in real publications. I need something I can censure and take credit for? Not one of you during this holiday season of charity and giving, who will step up to the plate and hit a home run? Okay. Maybe humor will work?

Opinions? Constructive criticisms?

Mem

 

[Picaro]

Opinions? Constructive criticisms?

Mem

Yes. Post Op Eds that have more content; I've read as good or better in my hometown suburban newspaper by high school freshman journalism students. By more content I mean article length essays that demonstrate real research and knowledge of an issue rather than just a couple of short paragraphs with generalities and homilies and the like. Book reviews would also work well in this format, probably better than just small opinion pieces.

At this point, I'm sure Koshergirl would indeed be preferable, even on issues I likely don't agree with her on, as the material presented wouldn't be so bland and written in newspaper reporting style, i.e. aimed at 6th graders.

 

[koshergrl]

Thank you for such an exquisite example of inflammatory and/or insulting language in a post Ms. koshergrl. To address a point you made, there are many real publications out there that forbid such writing as they have standards. Standards neither you nor I may agree with, but then again, obviously neither you nor I have been invited to write at such publications.

I wonder if you would be open to listing some of the publications, which published pieces you submitted? It would help us out a great deal to actually know what you consider real publications. I am not asking you to reveal what you wrote, only where what you claim to have written was published.

again, thank you Ms. koshergrl
Mem

Thank you for providing a perfect example of why nobody worth reading is going to submit anything to you.

 

[koshergrl]

Opinions? Constructive criticisms?

Mem

Yes. Post Op Eds that have more content; I've read as good or better in my hometown suburban newspaper by high school freshman journalism students. By more content I mean article length essays that demonstrate real research and knowledge of an issue rather than just a couple of short paragraphs with generalities and homilies and the like. Book reviews would also work well in this format, probably better than just small opinion pieces.

At this point, I'm sure Koshergirl would indeed be preferable, even on issues I likely don't agree with her on, as the material presented wouldn't be so bland and written in newspaper reporting style, i.e. aimed at 6th graders.

I'm a whiz at AP writing...and I'm a whiz at OP writing, too.
I wrote an essay that landed me a full ride renewable scholarship. That was 28 years ago. I worked for a paper where 10 stories a week...plus OP contributions, weekly columns, series work, special edition work, and helping the copy editor at crunch time...was the job description.

So I think it's funny when these little dweebs whine around for *suggestions*..then sneer when they get them. I told them that their OP/ED column was going to go nowhere because they don't know what they're doing. You can see it with the moderators, and you can see it in this thread. And I was right.

 

[Martin Eden Mercury]

Thank you Picaro. The criteria for op-eds in the Writer's Corner was initially set at a 500 word limit. The limit has been expanded to between 500 words and 750 words. Feature length articles would not be considered op-eds (of course there are exceptions to every rule) for the purposes initially proposed. I wonder if more writers were consistently contributing, and the Writer's Corner took off, things would evolve and maybe feature length articles would be approved for another area of the Writer's Corner. Right now the challenge is to find people who are passionate, who could also write within a set of guidelines established by the administrator. A bit of discipline and an ability to write within the parameters set forth are needed. Otherwise why call the writings op-eds? No one called for editing content as long as it met the criteria set forth in the original call for contributers. What serious writer could not meet such minimal criteria: writing devoid of inflammatory and/or insulting language, in a 500 - 750 word piece?

To repeat what is in the OP, ck wisely suggested aspiring contributors 'pick their favorite online rag, and check out their op-ed's, and get a taste' for what USMB is looking for. He also wrote that he was seeking to "keep things balanced"

again, thank you Picaro
Mem

 

[koshergrl]

Thank you Picaro. The criteria for op-eds in the Writer's Corner was initially set at a 500 word limit. The limit has been expanded to between 500 words and 750 words. Feature length articles would not be considered op-eds (of course there are exceptions to every rule) for the purposes initially proposed. I wonder if more writers were consistently contributing, and the Writer's Corner took off, things would evolve and maybe feature length articles would be approved for another area of the Writer's Corner. Right now the challenge is to find people who are passionate, who could also write within a set of guidelines established by the administrator. A bit of discipline and an ability to write within the parameters set forth are needed. Otherwise why call the writings op-eds? No one called for editing content as long as it met the criteria set forth in the original call for contributers. What serious writer could not meet such minimal criteria: writing devoid of inflammatory and/or insulting language, in a 500 - 750 word piece?

To repeat what is in the OP, ck wisely suggested aspiring contributors 'pick their favorite online rag, and check out their op-ed's, and get a taste' for what USMB is looking for. He also wrote that he was seeking to "keep things balanced"

again, thank you Picaro
Mem

So..non inflammatory OP/Eds.

Scintillating, I'm sure lolol. The best OP/EDs are always the bland ones.

 

[Martin Eden Mercury]

Thank you koshergrl, I see your negative attacks, and raise you a serious set of questions: Why are you so angry, and why did you bring that into this thread? Do you consider your first entry to be opinion or constructive criticism? Do you consider inflammatory and insulting attacks to be worthy of being called opinion? Maybe you could consider my set of questions to be rhetorical in nature, and somehow leave an empty reply?

Mem

 

[koshergrl]

Thank you koshergrl, I see your negative attacks, and raise you a serious set of questions: Why are you so angry, and why did you bring that into this thread? Do you consider your first entry to be opinion or constructive criticism? Do you consider inflammatory and insulting attacks to be worthy of being called opinion? Maybe you could consider my set of questions to be rhetorical in nature, and somehow leave an empty reply?

Mem

1. Not angry. Your inability to separate your own emotion so you can objectively read is the root of your problem.
2. You asked for advice and opinion. I gave it. The fact that you don't agree with it doesn't mean you didn't ask for it in the first place.
3. You consider any opinion that you don't agree with as "inflammatory". Presumably because you become inflamed. Which brings us back to #1, and in fact the point of my original post, which is that the editorial staff is not really up to the job.
4. What the hell are you blathering about?: " Maybe you could consider my set of questions to be rhetorical in nature, and somehow leave an empty reply?" Huh?

 

[Martin Eden Mercury]

"I told them that their OP/ED column was going to go nowhere because they don't know what they're doing. You can see it with the moderators, and you can see it in this thread. And I was right." Sounds like Donald Trump here, insisting he tells the world about things before they even happen.

"Per usual, usmb set the rules, and then had no idea how to follow them."

I guess if I had the amount of contempt and disdain for USMB that koshergrl has, I'd be editorializing to myself - asking why I stay here. I'm not suggesting what she should do. I am wondering why she feels the need to attack the way she does. If I believed people were out to censure me, and steal my writings in order to take credit for them, I wonder if I'd even bother to post at all. Is koshergrl saying her posts aren't worth stealing, but her writings people will never see are?

I have to wonder if the rejection of her first submission (were there others?) wounded her so deeply, that she could not step back and resubmit a less inflammatory piece? Sounds very unprofessional to me. Very unprofessional for somebody with the pedigree she insists she possesses. We know how great a writer she claims to be. She insists on telling whomever will listen. This just might be one of USMB's greatest secrets. How is that for investigative reporting? Did I pass the 6th grade test? Do I get a scholarship to ITGFYU (I'm Too Good For You University)? I've discovered a hidden gem at USMB. One worthy of notice from the lookouts for Whizz's at the AP.

I know people who inhabit and thrive on message boards, are people who are attached to, and ultimately loyal to the practices of online engagement and involvement. The Writer's Corner is a good idea waiting to be exploited by a few writers out there.

I'll end with this: I'm glad this is not the Writer's Corner. The criteria for posting here is a bit different. I'm offering an opinion, not writing an op-ed or an editorial.

Mem

 

[koshergrl]

"I told them that their OP/ED column was going to go nowhere because they don't know what they're doing. You can see it with the moderators, and you can see it in this thread. And I was right." Sounds like Donald Trump here, insisting he tells the world about things before they even happen.

"Per usual, usmb set the rules, and then had no idea how to follow them."

I guess if I had the amount of contempt and disdain for USMB that koshergrl has, I'd be editorializing to myself - asking why I stay here. I'm not suggesting what she should do. I am wondering why she feels the need to attack the way she does. If I believed people were out to censure me, and steal my writings in order to take credit for them, I wonder if I'd even bother to post at all. Is koshergrl saying her posts aren't worth stealing, but her writings people will never see are?

I have to wonder if the rejection of her first submission (were there others?) wounded her so deeply, that she could not step back and resubmit a less inflammatory piece? Sounds very unprofessional to me. Very unprofessional for somebody with the pedigree she insists she possesses. We know how great a writer she claims to be. She insists on telling whomever will listen. This just might be one of USMB's greatest secrets. How is that for investigative reporting? Did I pass the 6th grade test? Do I get a scholarship to ITGFYU (I'm Too Good For You University)? I've discovered a hidden gem at USMB. One worthy of notice from the lookouts for Whizz's at the AP.

I know people who inhabit and thrive on message boards, are people who are attached to, and ultimately loyal to the practices of online engagement and involvement. The Writer's Corner is a good idea waiting to be exploited by a few writers out there.

I'll end with this: I'm glad this is not the Writer's Corner. The criteria for posting here is a bit different. I'm offering an opinion, not writing an op-ed or an editorial.

Mem

I didn't read that. You have one line to hook me, and you didn't.

 

[koshergrl]

So how's the op/ed thing going, anyway????

 

[Gracie]

....pardon me....just passing through....but KG posts some mighty interesting things, and the more inflammatory the more the responses...good and bad. Which is what good writing is. Ain't it? I'd rather read her hot and spicy stuff than droll "opinions" I can find on any blog. So keeping her out of it is a really BAD idea. Oh, and that is MY ego talking. Dig?
Or was that too inflammatory for some sensitive politically correct ears?

 

[IsaacNewton]

I'd contribute to this but it appears to be unpaid, and providing large amounts of content, for a website that has many advertisers, for free is not something I'd do.

I do make money writing already.

 

[Martin Eden Mercury]

Thank you Ms Gracie. I've been through a few threads here that are loaded with responses. Loaded with responses by a handful of people. If a thread is to be judged by volume alone, I guess inflammatory and insulting wins here. But the call for contributers was never a call for inflammatory threads posing as op-eds. Why is the concept so lost to some of us? Do people even know what an op-ed is? I wonder if people were to submit links to op-ed pages they consider well written for a wider audience, would those op-eds meet the simple standard laid out: an op-ed devoid of inflammatory and/or insulting language.

I may be mistaken, but I believe the original premise was that USMB could showcase some writers and itself to a wider audience, while attracting new people by having a type of op-ed page on the front end. What would inflammatory and insulting language get us? More of the same? Maybe more of nothing? Let us be honest. With more of the same we would hit that place of diminishing returns, if we haven't already.

For all it's worth, the op-ed section of the Writer's Corner is a start. What do some of you offer, but nay saying and negativity bordering on nastiness? What should be a simple discussion need not turn to the usual ugly back and forth of a typical message board thread. The writer's Corner is separate from the rest of the message board. There does not have to be one set of op-ed writers. It could be ever changing. It could be whatever the community would support as it evolves; but it appears lost on many people, that in order to get out in front of things, we have to start somewhere, and start somewhere we have.

Where do the perceptions of threats come from? Where did anyone suggest any particular person was to be kept out it all? And what political correctness are you referring to?

again, thank you

Mem