Wouldn't it be fun...

[Kalam]

Spain is a "large scale"?

I get it....You're trying to make rdean look rational, aren't you?

8-10 million people? I'd say so, yes.

You're a fucking fool.

Give it up.

Perhaps, but I prefer simply being a fool to being a fool with no understanding of population size.

 

[Kalam]

Between the populations of Ohio and California?

Slightly less, closer to the population of my own state. Why you're unable to appreciate the significance of those numbers is beyond me. Do you scoff when people bring up the Holocaust's oft-cited death toll of 6 million?

 

[Oddball]

Between the populations of Ohio and California?

Slightly less, closer to the population of my own state. Why you're unable to appreciate the significance of those numbers is beyond me. Do you scoff when people bring up the Holocaust's oft-cited death toll of 6 million?

Whatever.

You're off way your rocker, dude.

 

[Kalam]

Apparently.

 

[xotoxi]

Wouldn't it be fun to take all the Libertarians and Libertarian wannabees and drop them off on an island somewhere with NO social services and watch them claw each other to death?

Would sammiches be provided?

If so, then yes, it would be fun.

But no sammiches...no fun.

(Unless there was beer.)

 

[JW Frogen]

I call bullshit.

Name it.

Here's the account of one notable author:

"This was in late December 1936, less than seven months ago as I write, and yet it is a period that has already receded into enormous distance. Later events have obliterated it much more completely than they have obliterated 1935, or 1905, for that matter. I had come to Spain with some notion of writing newspaper articles, but I had joined the militia almost immediately, because at that time and in that atmosphere it seemed the only conceivable thing to do. The Anarchists were still in virtual control of Catalonia and the revolution was still in full swing. To anyone who had been there since the beginning it probably seemed even in December or January that the revolutionary period was ending; but when one came straight from England the aspect of Barcelona was something startling and overwhelming. It was the first time that I had ever been in a town where the working class was in the saddle. Practically every building of any size had been seized by the workers and was draped with red flags and with the red and black flag of the Anarchists; every wall was scrawled with the hammer and sickle and with the initials of the revolutionary parties; almost every church had been gutted and its images burnt. Churches here and there were being systematically demolished by gangs of workmen. Every shop and cafe had an inscription saying that it had been collectivized; even the bootblacks had been collectivized and their boxes painted red and black. Waiters and shop-walkers looked you in the face and treated you as an equal. Servile and even ceremonial forms of speech had temporarily disappeared. Nobody said 'Senor' or 'Don' or even 'Ústed'; everyone called everyone else 'Comrade' or 'Thou', and said 'Salud!' instead of 'Buenos días'. Tipping had been forbidden by law since the time of Primo de Rivera; almost my first experience was receiving a lecture from a hotel manager for trying to tip a lift-boy. There were no private motor-cars, they had all been commandeered, and the trams and taxis and much of the other transport were painted red and black. The revolutionary posters were everywhere, flaming from the walls in clean reds and blues that made the few remaining advertisements look like daubs of mud. Down the Ramblas, the wide central artery of the town where crowds of people streamed constantly to and fro, the loud-speakers were bellowing revolutionary songs all day and far into the night. And it was the aspect of the crowds that was the queerest thing of all. In outward appearance it was a town in which the wealthy classes had practically ceased to exist. Except for a small number of women and foreigners there were no 'well-dressed' people at all. Practically everyone wore rough working-class clothes, or blue overalls or some variant of militia uniform. All this was queer and moving. There was much in this that I did not understand, in some ways I did not even like it, but I recognized it immediately as a state of affairs worth fighting for... so far as one could judge the people were contented and hopeful. There was no unemployment, and the price of living was still extremely low; you saw very few conspicuously destitute people, and no beggars except the gypsies. Above all, there was a belief in the revolution and the future, a feeling of having suddenly emerged into an era of equality and freedom. Human beings were trying to behave as human beings and not as cogs in the capitalist machine."​

- Homage to Catalonia, Ch. 1​

And here's some information that's a bit less anecdotal:

"In Spain, during almost three years, despite a civil war that took a million lives, despite the opposition of the political parties . . . this idea of libertarian communism was put into effect. Very quickly more than 60% of the land was collectively cultivated by the peasants themselves, without landlords, without bosses, and without instituting capitalist competition to spur production. In almost all the industries, factories, mills, workshops, transportation services, public services, and utilities, the rank and file workers, their revolutionary committees, and their syndicates reorganised and administered production, distribution, and public services without capitalists, high-salaried managers, or the authority of the state. . .

Even more: the various agrarian and industrial collectives immediately instituted economic equality in accordance with the essential principle of communism, 'From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs.' They co-ordinated their efforts through free association in whole regions, created new wealth, increased production (especially in agriculture), built more schools, and bettered public services. They instituted not bourgeois formal democracy but genuine grass roots functional libertarian democracy, where each individual participated directly in the revolutionary reorganisation of social life. They replaced the war between men, 'survival of the fittest,' by the universal practice of mutual aid, and replaced rivalry by the principle of solidarity . . .

This experience, in which about eight million people directly or indirectly participated, opened a new way of life to those who sought an alternative to anti-social capitalism on the one hand, and totalitarian state bogus socialism on the other."

- Gaston Leval (I.8 Does revolutionary Spain show that libertarian socialism can work in practice?)​

A noble experiment but they were annihilated. My first prerequisite for a successful social-economic model is the ability of it, and by extension me if I am in it, to survive.

 

[Ravi]

it was done already its this little place I like to call.. America

Really? When was that?

september, 2001.

Not getting your point.

 

[EriktheRed]

It's okay guys, Dude just doesn't see the irony of him buying into Rand is like his mocking of people on the left for buying into Gore.

No offense Dude.

Speaking of Rand:

​

 

[WillowTree]

It would be even more fun to watch the generational welfare frauds try to form a society without other people"s money.

 

[Paulie]

to take all the Libertarians and Libertarian wannabees and drop them off on an island somewhere with NO social services and watch them claw each other to death?

Oh, we'd protect them with the military if someone tried to invade.

Do you have more of a problem with libertarians than you do with regular conservatives?

You seem to spend more time railing them than anyone else.

You do realize libertarians are more of an ally to you than regular conservatives, right?

You'll agree with them on social issues MUCH more so than conservatives.

Anyway though, you seem to love having problems with a lot of people, Rav.

That must be a really shitty way to go through life. Between that and finding so many ways to be offended by shit, I'm surprised you manage to even wake up and enter society AT ALL.

 

[Ravi]

to take all the Libertarians and Libertarian wannabees and drop them off on an island somewhere with NO social services and watch them claw each other to death?

Oh, we'd protect them with the military if someone tried to invade.

Do you have more of a problem with libertarians than you do with regular conservatives?

You seem to spend more time railing them than anyone else.

You do realize libertarians are more of an ally to you than regular conservatives, right?

You'll agree with them on social issues MUCH more so than conservatives.

Anyway though, you seem to love having problems with a lot of people, Rav.

That must be a really shitty way to go through life. Between that and finding so many ways to be offended by shit, I'm surprised you manage to even wake up and enter society AT ALL.

Sorry I upset you, Pauline.

 

[Darkwind]

Libertarians who identify themselves as capitalists aren't really champions of liberty. The type of society they call for would devolve into a sort of neo-feudalism in which corporations acted as "lords" and the general population as their serfs. True libertarians are advocates of libertarian socialism.

Man, you need to lay off the Blade Runner re-runs.

 

[Kalam]

Libertarians who identify themselves as capitalists aren't really champions of liberty. The type of society they call for would devolve into a sort of neo-feudalism in which corporations acted as "lords" and the general population as their serfs. True libertarians are advocates of libertarian socialism.

Man, you need to lay off the Blade Runner re-runs.

Not a fan.

 

[Darkwind]

Libertarians who identify themselves as capitalists aren't really champions of liberty. The type of society they call for would devolve into a sort of neo-feudalism in which corporations acted as "lords" and the general population as their serfs. True libertarians are advocates of libertarian socialism.

Man, you need to lay off the Blade Runner re-runs.

Not a fan.

I'm not either. That is why I support capitalism.

 

[Kalam]

Man, you need to lay off the Blade Runner re-runs.

Not a fan.

I'm not either. That is why I support capitalism.

You support capitalism because you didn't like "Blade Runner"?