Would You Lock Your Doors

[Ravi]

Why would you lock your doors because of a rebel flag and a pick up? That's just paranoid.

Not really. I live in the "south" and I find most rebel flag wavers to be creepy.

 

[Ravi]

Basically what you are doing is trying put lipstick on a pig. Your choice of language even reflects the attitude the slave owners probably had. "were trained"? I trained my pit bull to guard my home when I was not there. When I was home he knew he was off duty and he was a dog. For every feel good story there are probably hundreds if not thousands of examples of depraved indifference to the human condition of being enslaved and relegated to the value of mule. Those feel good stories dont wash away the destruction done to the family unit of Blacks from seeing their daughters and wives raped, sold off to the highest bidder as retaliation for some real or imagined slight or disobedience, or men folk basically removed from their primary role of family protector under pain of mutilation or death. Consequently that destruction is still evident today in the lives of Black people that have not recovered as of yet from what basically amounts to PTSD. Food for thought.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/n...from-911still-haunts.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

9/11 was a one time event that affected thousaunds. Blacks went through it for decades over and over and over again. The survivors did not receive any counseling and passed on a bunch of bad stuff to their descendants. What could possibly be good about romanticizing the era of slavery?

I guess someone that wanted the story to be ALL about victims and menial labor -- it IS lipstick on a pig.. I'll buy that. But something strange is goin on here that I did not expect. And that is both Ravi and now YOU have made "dog" and "pet" references in regards to some actual plantation history. My mind can't go there. Particularly when the stories were about training in blacksmithing, horse husbandry, carpentry, milling, etc.. And having a couple slaves win more Kentucky derbies than modern era jockeys is more than worthy at a look as to how that happened. These were premiere skills for the time. Not the stuff your dog can do.

Pretty tone deaf for even the politically correct leftists that equate a job at WalMart to slavery all the freaking time..

I think LOTS of healing went on in the South BECAUSE of the acceptance of the contributions made by black slaves and the way they survived. And the integral relationships between ancestors. They are a key part of the story of development here and it serves race relations better to celebrate their contributions than to ignore them..

That doesnt make sense. No one wants the story to be ALL about victims and labor. The danger is in glorifying that era as something honorable or even beneficial. The pet reference came in due to the use of the word training. Instructed would be the word you apply to humans. BTW did you know Africans already were blacksmith long before they came to the US?

Craft In America African American Ironwork

I think what you are missing in this is that this was allowed only to make the slave owner money. It was not done out of respect for the skills of slaves. There was a reason whites didn't want the vast majority of slaves having skills, the ability to read or write, nor speak eloquently. It would disrupt the status quo and bring on that cognitive dissonance. Everything was safe as long as the trained monkey was an anomaly and not just an example of what Black people were really capable of.

I'll be sure to pass that on to the Departments of Labor and Education to be careful not to refer to Training or Retraining programs. And of course the object was to make money for the owner. But you are wrong that these skills were not respected. They were not properly renumerated and deprived of basic personal choices. Every business has foremen who are given trust and responsibities. And a working plantation had many black foremen. If there was no trust and respect, the Massa would have to hire a bunch of white employees to manage and direct daily work. Largely, what ive seen is an extended white family surrounded by a whole bunch of black folks improving the grounds and conducting a business. So far I cant remember a single instance of white staff members or employees even being mentioned. Except maybe a tutor for the children.

The development of reliiance on key slaves probably did a lot to change hearts and minds...

Why would they hire white people when they could force black people to do it for free. You seem to be overlooking the entire reason for having slaves.

I understand why the sslaves were there. You're under faulty impressions about the relationship between the owners and the workers. Very few if any WHITE employees, not because of cost only, but because the slaves could be trained and advanced into EVERY type of labor needed to survive and do business. Largely, just the white family with maybe twice as many slaves. If the dominant view of slave owners was that blacks were simply untrustworthy cotton picking machines, you would see a totally different staff make up at these plantations with more white employees and moe security.

Mr. A is correct that farther down south where the massive cotton operations were, there was less diversity in the biz skills and more chances for abuse by white staff.

The white overseers represented authority, beatings, and death.

 

[Ravi]

Asc, if a bunch of black gang bangers are approaching your car and don't look particularly happy, are you cars doors locked? Or do you roll down your window and say "Wassup homeys?".

I'd also lock my doors then. That's the point, numnuts.

 

[emilynghiem]

I am not clear on why you are trying to portray slavery in a flattering light.

No way that's my aim.. My goal is to humanize these folks who had to survive that ugly chapter of history. And to get a more realistic view of HOW they lived. And obviously, slaves were trained at tasks and responsibilities that elevated many of them to positions that endeared them to the owners and created a lot of trust. Showing that it was possible for a few to achieve very lofty positions in the family and business. And that is the story at every Southern heritage site that I've visited. I guess the difference is you would prefer to think of them as menial laborers and victims. I think somewhere in between is where they would WANT to be remembered..

Hi Ravi and flacaltenn: I also ran into problems trying to compliment the endurance of the slaves for making the most of their situation, where I was criticized for making them sound like they were subservient and going along with it for their own good.

Flacaltenn I think I understand what you are trying to say.
Jefferson educated his slaves, and many owners did not abuse them as the worst stories we hear about.
Not all corporations abuse their workers, many workers are happy to have jobs even if it isn't at 15 an hour,
it isn't necessarily abusing people. We hear about the nightmare stories, and shouldn't say all corporations
are that way; nor should we elevate and excuse all corporations as being good for the economy with unchecked free reign.

Of course there are abuses going on, and of course there are those who are not abusive.

With the Freedmen's Town district where I live that was built by freed slaves,
these were the educated urban slaves who did have the responsibilities and knowledge of managing affairs.
with the help of other church groups they were able to build churches homes and businesses on their own
even though they were not considered equal citizens and were shunned and segregated to live in an exiled area.

the separation between Field slaves and House slaves did cause the constant division
and jealousy with the poor field slaves without the same privileges and is still used as an insult today.

we see the rich blame the poor in general, not just poor blacks but the entire conservative Republican party
segregated from the liberal Democrats as catering to the poor as victims of the rich.
and vice versa. the poor blame the rich the same way field negroes blamed the house negroes
for pandering to the masters to get special favors.

this is a destructive mentality but the class division is still exploited today to keep the oppression going
both the poor and rich taxpayers, the field workers or the house servants are still slaves.

I agree we need to quit demonizing these groups but don't need to glorify the other either.
this isn't about justifying or rationalizing away abuses.

we do need to stop the victim mentality.
thanks for sharing so we can see all sides and not feel the other people or groups are necessarily the enemy

 

[Asclepias]

Asc, if a bunch of black gang bangers are approaching your car and don't look particularly happy, are you cars doors locked? Or do you roll down your window and say "Wassup homeys?".

We all know you would piss your pants regardless of if the doors were locked or not.

 

[Asclepias]

Asc, if a bunch of black gang bangers are approaching your car and don't look particularly happy, are you cars doors locked? Or do you roll down your window and say "Wassup homeys?".

I'd also lock my doors then. That's the point, numnuts.

I grew up in the hood. Gang bangers don't waste much time messing with people that are not encroaching on their money making. Besides locking the doors is sure to get you noticed as an easy victim if you show fear and especially if you are a man that shows fear.

 

[ninja007]

lots of meth heads in my city in the downtown; most are white.

 

[ninja007]

true story- when I had money, I got lost in downtown Detroit with me in my new dodge viper and my retired dad in his car... we are white. We got lost before crossing the border. We had to pull into the gas station in the worst area and ask for directions. I got out of my car and approached several black guys who looked like they were in a gang just chillin in the lot. They were totally polite and gave us the correct directions.

 

[PredFan]

Why would you lock your doors because of a rebel flag and a pick up? That's just paranoid.

Not really. I live in the "south" and I find most rebel flag wavers to be creepy.

I live in Florida, and you're just paranoid.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why would you lock your doors because of a rebel flag and a pick up? That's just paranoid.

Not really. I live in the "south" and I find most rebel flag wavers to be creepy.

I live in Florida, and you're just paranoid.

I think if you probed the issue with Ravi (and who wouldn't want to ) --
you'd find that she thinks flag-waving in general is "creepy"..

 

[Ravi]

Why would you lock your doors because of a rebel flag and a pick up? That's just paranoid.

Not really. I live in the "south" and I find most rebel flag wavers to be creepy.

I live in Florida, and you're just paranoid.

I think if you probed the issue with Ravi (and who wouldn't want to ) --
you'd find that she thinks flag-waving in general is "creepy"..

I think you make things up.

 

[PredFan]

Seriously, what do think is going to happen to you? They might make you listen to country music? Force you to eat collard greens?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not really. I live in the "south" and I find most rebel flag wavers to be creepy.

No doubt they find you creepy as well.

As virtually everyone else does......

Oh, and help yourself to the free cheese behind the refrigerator, Rati.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Your stress and anger is caused by how you've been conditioned to feel about an injustice in the remote past."

This is Enrie's Excuse for feeling marginalized by a society that won't put up with his nonsense.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If the dominant view of slave owners was that blacks were simply untrustworthy cotton picking machines, you would see a totally different staff make up at these plantations with more white employees and more security.

Begin with John Hope Franklin's works. if you wish to become educated on this subject.

• The Free Negro in North Carolina, 1790–1860,Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1943, 1995.
• The Diary of James T. Ayers, Civil War recruiter ed., with introd., by John Franklin. Springfield; State of Illinois, 1947.
• From Slavery to Freedom: A History of African Americans, 1st ed. New York: A.A. Knopf, 1947. Last update with Alfred Moss, 8th ed. McGraw-Hill Education, 2000, ISBN 0-07-112058-0
• The Militant South, 1800-1861. Cambridge: Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 1956; 1st Illinois pbk. Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 2002.
• Reconstruction: after the Civil War. Chicago:University of Chicago Press, 1961.
• The Emancipation Proclamation. 1st ed. Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1963; 2nd ed. Washington, DC: National Archives and Records Administration, 1993.
• Land of the free; a history of the United States, by John W. Caughey, John Hope Franklin and Ernest R. May. Educational advisers: Richard M. Clowes and Alfred T. Clark, Jr. Rev. New York: Benziger Bros., 1966.
• The Negro in Twentieth Century America: A Reader on the Struggle for Civil Rights, by John Hope Franklin & Isidore Starr. New York: Vintage Books, 1967.
• Color and race. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1968.
• The Historian and Public Policy, by John Hope Franklin. Chicago: University of Chicago, Center for Policy Study, c1974.

• Racial Equality in America, by John Hope Franklin. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, c1976.
• A Southern Odyssey: Travelers in the Antebellum North. by John Hope Franklin. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, c1976.
• Black Leaders of the Twentieth Century, edited by John Hope Franklin and August Meier. Urbana:University of Illinois Press, c1982.
• George Washington Williams: a Biography, Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1985; Reprint, Durham, N.C.: Duke University Press, 1998.
• Race and History: Selected Essays 1938-1988,Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, c1989.
• The Facts of Reconstruction: Essays in Honor of John Hope Franklin, edited by Eric Anderson & Alfred A. Moss, Jr. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, c1991.
• The Color Line: Legacy for the Twenty-first Century,John Hope Franklin. Columbia: University of Missouri Press, c1993.
• Racial Equality in America, by John Hope Franklin. Columbia: University of Missouri Press, 1993.
• My Life and an Era: the Autobiography of Buck Colbert Franklin, edited by John Hope Franklin and John Whittington Franklin. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, c1997, 2000.
• Runaway Slaves: Rebels on the Plantation, John Hope Franklin, Loren Schweninger. New York: Oxford University Press, 1999.
• Mirror to America. The Autobiography of John Hope Franklin. Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 2005, ISBN 0-374-29944-7

 

[Ravi]

Seriously, what do think is going to happen to you? They might make you listen to country music? Force you to eat collard greens?

The same thing you think when you see black people, prolly.

 

[Ravi]

Side question...should mods be allowed to berate posters? And this isn't directed at FlaCalTenn, he just reminded me of a mod that called me a nasty name....west wall, who until then I respected.

 

[Valerie]

" I'm kinda over the Holocaust." ? <

 

[flacaltenn]

Side question...should mods be allowed to berate posters? And this isn't directed at FlaCalTenn, he just reminded me of a mod that called me a nasty name....west wall, who until then I respected.

Would you give up the privilege of just being another member to be a mod? We're not protected, have back at them.. Legally of course.
I LOVE the feisty ones.. Quite frankly, we deal with professional haters, true nazis, and the legitimately criminally insane. Think calling us a name is gonna get you noticed?

 

[flacaltenn]

" I'm kinda over the Holocaust." ? <

Yeah -- But I'm NOT OVER the years of slavery in Egypt and Babylonia..
Those guys won't acknowledge that ever happened or pay reparations...

Seriously -- WHY do we allow slavery to exist TODAY ?? Bugs me that nobody is fired up angry enough to fight that issue to the death..