Would you cure gay?

[Quantum Windbag]

What causes heterosexuality we should wonder? Is there a cure? Consider all the bad marriages, divorces, cruelty and violence both mental and physical involved, think of the children, some scarred for life, some dead. Could children be raised in a better environment, say an environment out of a futuristic sci-fi story. Would that solve it or are solutions beyond the question?

When we talk of 'cure' we need to assume we are fixing something, I personally don't think heterosexuality can be cured. We are just going to have live with it, flaws and all.

"If skin-colour were a choice, would racism be justified? Would it then be completely reasonable to say that only if you are a particular colour are you allowed to marry or join organisations or visit a loved-one in hospital? If skin-colour were a choice, would it be reasonable to say that some skin-colours were sinful or evil or immoral, and others not?" See here: http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/50615-know-what-really-causes-homosexuality.html


"Despite how straightforward and commonplace it may appear today, the heterosexual/homosexual juxtaposition was actually less to the fore in pre-modern times and, in effect, was not universally observed. Equally, heterosexual love - however natural it may appear today - was seen in those earlier societies not so much as a rejection of homosexuality but rather as an alternative to nonsexual male-to-male relationships and, for that matter, the love of God advocated respectively by chivalric and religious practices and codes of conduct. There is today a clear need to rethink our attitude to heterosexuality...." 'The Invention of Heterosexual Culture' Louis-Georges Tin
The Invention of Heterosexual Culture: Louis-Georges Tin: 9780262017701: Amazon.com: Books


"Abraham had two wives, Sarah and her handmaiden Hagar. King Solomon had 700 wives, plus 300 concubines and slaves. Jacob, the patriarch who gives Israel its name, had two wives and two concubines. In a humanist vein, Exodus 21:10 warns that when men take additional wives, they must still provide for their previous one. (Exodus 21:16 adds that if a man seduces a virgin and has sex with her, he has to marry her, too.)" Traditional Marriage: One Man, Many Women, Some Girls, Some Slaves | Sexuality/Gender | Religion Dispatches

Why am I not surprised that you wouldn't actually address the premise of the OP? Did it ever occur to you that by arguing the way you are you are actually exasperating the problem?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes, and unprotected, hetero sex has caused millions of deaths.

Gay people need to stop saying they were born this way and its not a choice if they do not want people to look for a cure...
They have that freedom to choose and it is in their rights they should just stand on that ground...

that is not a genetic error. that is a mental error. look at fact not emotion

I'll believe science and the scientists who say YOU do not have a choice about being heterosexual an more than homosexuals have a choice -- but thank you both for your opinions anyway.

Sad but this is turning into another gay bashing thread.

Scientist say homosexuality is not a choice ?...what Scientist ?

The pretend scientists that Luddites listen too when they are confronted by progress.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Thankfully, we do have "cures", or at least treatment for genetic errors. They're not perfect but they're getting better and better.

And, of course, we all want equal treatment, marriage equality for all US citizens as guaranteed by our Constitution.

So you support Incestuous marriages? How about multiple partners marrying? AFTER ALL YOU DID SAY WE WANT EQUAL TREATMENT FOR all CITIZENS RIGHT?

This ‘argument’ is a fallacy, you’re comparing two dissimilar issues.

Acknowledging the equal protection rights of same-sex couples has nothing to do with incestuous or plural marriages.

Moreover, marriage can accommodate same-sex couples as the laws exist now, no changes needed – which is not the case with other types of marriage configurations.

For example:

A suburban Philadelphia woman who tied the knot with her longtime partner Sunday with a county marriage license despite the commonwealth's ban on same-sex marriage said it was the day "that every committed couple waits for."

The licenses issued Wednesday in Montgomery County are believed to be the first to same-sex couples in Pennsylvania, the only northeastern state without same-sex marriages or civil unions. State law also says same-sex marriages, even ones entered legally elsewhere, are void in Pennsylvania.

Montgomery County District Attorney Risa Ferman, a Republican, said Wednesday evening that a same-sex marriage license isn't legally valid in Pennsylvania, but she said it's not her place to intervene. Democratic Attorney General Kathleen Kane, though, has said that she will not defend the ban, leaving any defense to Republican Gov. Tom Corbett's office. A spokesman for Corbett said county office-holders are required to uphold the law but did not say if the governor would challenge the marriages.

Same-sex couple marries outside Philly despite ban

Pennsylvania marriage law can currently accommodate same-sex couples, the issue is whether or not the state will recognize those marriages.

FYI, fallacy does not mean false. It generally means that the argument is poorly reasoned out, but unthinking people resort to calling something a fallacy in order to not have to defend their own positions. There is actually a term for this, it is called argument from fallacy, but I prefer the term fallacy fallacy.

Such is the level of debate I have come to expect from most people who graduated from school since 1960.

 

[FA_Q2]

In other words you will ignore the premise of his suggestion and react to the idea it is an attack of some kind.

I would cure it if it were learned, not if it were genetic. In other words since we are pretty damn sure it is not learned I would not opt for a cure for a genetic mutation that causes no actual harm to the body.

I would "cure" transsexuals or those with both genitalia.

Don't get me wrong I am opposed to the State recognizing Gay unions as marriages and would oppose civil unions as well if the times were not what they are. Civil Unions though are what we should be accepting for gays.

I'm amazed that so many people don't understand the premise of the OP.

I object to the premise of the OP because it isn't a comprehensive question. Either we have free will, or we don't, there is no way to argue we have free will only part of the time. If we don't have free will we are not capable of choosing to cure anything, if we do we do not need to cure sexual preferences even if science suddenly overturns years of research and proves that there is something we can do to change sexual preference.

As to the research – it has been addressed before. I gave you the research and you choose to ignore it. There is also zero research that shows gay is a choice as there cannot be. You cannot prove a negative (aka, that gay is NOT genetically based). Previous research in the subject was meant with barriers because gay is not based purely on genetics but has more to it than that. New research shows that it is likely gay is not a choice whether or not you want to acknowledge that. That is, however, your problem. No one really cares that you wish to disregard research that disagrees with you, that is your option. It is silly though to disregard it and then make continual claims that there is evidence in the contrary. No one is going to buy that.

As far as free will, there are things that you can choose and things that you cannot. You do not choose when your body goes through puberty. That is a fact. You do not choose the chemicals that are released as you are growing up. The idea here is that sexual attraction is a chemical process, not a choice. There is plenty to back that up as well. The simple fact is that you never decided to like women, that occurs naturally on natures timescale. There is a time when women have cooties and then a transitional period to hiding magazines where your father won’t find them. That transition is ruled entirely on your body taking its natural course. You do not choose when, how, what is going to change or anything else in that process. For some reason though, you seem to think that the outcome is a choice. Why? Based on what? Nothing other than science has not identified the exact cause and genetically identical twins are not always both gay. That is completely insufficient because that leaves out the host of other possibilities. I find it rather silly that you demand an individual has options over that course. That is completely illogical and simply based on biased view of those that are straight.

Lastly, I already addressed your concerns over this as the question is moot if it is a choice so the argument over that is over for the purposes of this specific thread.

 

[FA_Q2]

Also of note, this thread is not about gay marriage. If you cannot refrain from trying to derail this thread with a subject being abused in a thousand others, leave.

 

[Wake]

Though I support Gay Marriage because America is not governed by the Church/Mosque, I personally find GM and homosexuality to be revolting. I find beauty in the notion of one man and one woman falling in love, getting married, and raising a family. I neither hate nor mistreat homosexuals, but if it were possible to "cure" them, I would. Though, I don't see how that would be possible, even though there's no scientifically discernable "gay gene." I view it as some sort of confusion, but I can't stop or cure them, and have no desire to treat them negatively in spite of my personal beliefs. So long as homosexuals and certain individuals don't try to brand/punish anyone who has a different viewpoint from them, we're good. I have no problem talking with homosexuals, but I'm not afraid to share with them my opinion should it come up.

 

[editec]

NOTE: we are in the CDZ

My question is simple. Let’s say that (because this question is meaningless if not true) being a homosexual is not a choice and is either a circumstance of either genes and/or environment. If that is true then it should be completely possible (even if not with today’s technology) to essentially ‘cure’ gay by adjusting the underlying genetic codes. I am not here to be inflammatory (hence this being in the CDZ) or derogatory to gays but I am interested, particularly if you are gay, in peoples opinion here if they would take such a cure for themselves or for their children. Would you, if you had went through the process to become pregnant and have a child, agree to a simple procedure pre-birth to test your child’s sexuality and change it? Post birth?

I expect mostly no from gays and yes from many others but am interested in people’s perspective in this. I think that had I that type of pre warning/procedure, I would likely take it.

What an excellent question.


Yes, I think if I could change their sexual orientation to hetero without violating their basic personality I probably would do it.

I think I would do it telling myself that I was doing for the kid, but I have the nagging suspicion that my motives would be less noble than that, too

Of course it is perfectly clear that changing something so fundamental as sexual orientation is likely to change the rest of a person's personality, too, isn't it?

What a great question!

 

[FA_Q2]

NOTE: we are in the CDZ

My question is simple. Let’s say that (because this question is meaningless if not true) being a homosexual is not a choice and is either a circumstance of either genes and/or environment. If that is true then it should be completely possible (even if not with today’s technology) to essentially ‘cure’ gay by adjusting the underlying genetic codes. I am not here to be inflammatory (hence this being in the CDZ) or derogatory to gays but I am interested, particularly if you are gay, in peoples opinion here if they would take such a cure for themselves or for their children. Would you, if you had went through the process to become pregnant and have a child, agree to a simple procedure pre-birth to test your child’s sexuality and change it? Post birth?

I expect mostly no from gays and yes from many others but am interested in people’s perspective in this. I think that had I that type of pre warning/procedure, I would likely take it.

What an excellent question.


Yes, I think if I could change their sexual orientation to hetero without violating their basic personality I probably would do it.

I think I would do it telling myself that I was doing for the kid, but I have the nagging suspicion that my motives would be less noble than that, too

Of course it is perfectly clear that changing something so fundamental as sexual orientation is likely to change the rest of a person's personality, too, isn't it?

What a great question!

Interesting point about personality. I am not sure that it matters much though. Your entire job as a parent is shaping and molding your child’s ‘personality ‘ to be the best they can and achieve happiness in their lives. In that, whether or not it changes personality, which I think is essentially a given, does not matter. Of Couse, such a statement depends heavily on AGE as well. Really, you might not want to force drastic changes on a 15 year old and, at least for me, that would be past the point that I would perform such a thing myself. However, pre-birth or less than say 3 I would be far more open to making those decisions. The main difference being that they have not achieved any sense of sexual self at that age so I don’t think that real damage would occur from such a fundamental change. If you are 15, it’s too late. You are already gay and that kind of change is something that you must want yourself not a decision that should be ripped out of your hands.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Incestuous relationships occur between consenting adults. Polygamous relationships occur between consenting adults. In Germany there were even consenting adults in a cannibal dinner relationship.
It's really what aberration will be normalized and accepted.

We have gone so far down the road to degredation that it likely won't stop until we have gone to the bottom and some external force comes along and puts a stop to it.

God or the aliens ..who ever gets here first...

Hey, don't laugh. My bet is there are plenty of backward fools people who actually believe this.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Yes, and unprotected, hetero sex has caused millions of deaths.

I'll believe science and the scientists who say YOU do not have a choice about being heterosexual an more than homosexuals have a choice -- but thank you both for your opinions anyway.

Sad but this is turning into another gay bashing thread.

Scientist say homosexuality is not a choice ?...what Scientist ?

The pretend scientists that Luddites listen too when they are confronted by progress.

I'm sure you both have reputable sources ......................................................

 

[Katzndogz]

Incestuous relationships occur between consenting adults. Polygamous relationships occur between consenting adults. In Germany there were even consenting adults in a cannibal dinner relationship.
It's really what aberration will be normalized and accepted.

We have gone so far down the road to degredation that it likely won't stop until we have gone to the bottom and some external force comes along and puts a stop to it.

God or the aliens ..who ever gets here first...

You must be a democrat because democrats don't think.

A republican would have said Islamic fundamentalists or Christian Russians.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Incestuous relationships occur between consenting adults. Polygamous relationships occur between consenting adults. In Germany there were even consenting adults in a cannibal dinner relationship.
It's really what aberration will be normalized and accepted.

We have gone so far down the road to degredation that it likely won't stop until we have gone to the bottom and some external force comes along and puts a stop to it.

God or the aliens ..who ever gets here first...

You must be a democrat because democrats don't think.

A republican would have said Islamic fundamentalists or Christian Russians.

Republicans need to stop ‘thinking.’

 

[Katzndogz]

God or the aliens ..who ever gets here first...

You must be a democrat because democrats don't think.

A republican would have said Islamic fundamentalists or Christian Russians.

Republicans need to stop ‘thinking.’

Republicans need to understand that America is sinking fast and decide whether they will help islam or someone else.

 

[PaulS1950]

Would you cure red hair? How about brown eyes? or maybe girls who are taller than 5'7" and men that are shorter than 5' 7"?

What is the point of curing something that has no harm to the rest of the population? As a matter of fact some actually like red hair, brown eyes, and tall women. -Not sure about short men but I am sure there is someone out there who likes them.
Some people like gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals, and transsexuals. If that bothers you perhaps you should be "cured".

 

[Cookie]

Yes, if we get to the point with genetic science that identifying and altering a "gay gene" were possible, I'd like to see it as a medical option.

I am close to several people who are homosexual. Along a spectrum, there are a few (one in particular I can think of) who would never take the medical "cure". She likes being homosexual and would never want to change. On the other side of the spectrum, I know at least one person who admits that they are homosexual but refuses to "come out" and would rather live the lie. He very much would take the "cure" if it was offered. Then there are several people who, at some point in their life might have wished for a "cure" and may have taken it or might just seriously consider it.

Keep in mind, if there is an option to change from homosexual to heterosexual, then there would be an option to change from heterosexual to homosexual. I know a few people who would probably take that "cure", too.

I would never force someone to make the change. As a matter of fact, I'd like to see laws that prohibits parents from making the choice for their children. Like an abortion, sterilization, tattoos and elective cosmetic surgery this is a life-altering choice that an adult should make for themselves. So, no if the genetic tests came back that said my fetus carried the "gay gene", I wouldn't do anything about it and just let the child have a normal childhood.

I find that interesting. You would not change your child pre-birth but yourself you would. I would lean in the EXACT opposite direction. Had I made it to twenty gay, I don’t think I would have found a reason to change who and what I was. At that point, I would have already established my wants and goals. If my child was going to be gay though, that is when I would do such a thing, pre-birth, so that my child grew up as all other children do. After you get older, that kind of change can have pretty drastic impacts into your life as you are changing something that is very fundamental to yourself.

Having a gay gene doesn't necessarily mean one will grow up as a homosexual. For instance, we're learning that people can carry a gene for diabetes or to contract cancer but the gene has to be turned on by something in the environment. The theory is that homosexuality is the same in that the tendency exists but there is something environmental that switched on that tendency. This is why people are "on the spectrum" between die-hard hetero to bi to full-fledged homo. This is also why people can go 40 years as "normal" before they become pre-diabetic.

A child is a sexual being but they aren't sexual. Their sexual orientation isn't an issue when they are a child. As they get into the teenaged years the parents can let them know about the "magic medical therapy" that they can obtain when they are an adult ... if they want to.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes, if we get to the point with genetic science that identifying and altering a "gay gene" were possible, I'd like to see it as a medical option.

I am close to several people who are homosexual. Along a spectrum, there are a few (one in particular I can think of) who would never take the medical "cure". She likes being homosexual and would never want to change. On the other side of the spectrum, I know at least one person who admits that they are homosexual but refuses to "come out" and would rather live the lie. He very much would take the "cure" if it was offered. Then there are several people who, at some point in their life might have wished for a "cure" and may have taken it or might just seriously consider it.

Keep in mind, if there is an option to change from homosexual to heterosexual, then there would be an option to change from heterosexual to homosexual. I know a few people who would probably take that "cure", too.

I would never force someone to make the change. As a matter of fact, I'd like to see laws that prohibits parents from making the choice for their children. Like an abortion, sterilization, tattoos and elective cosmetic surgery this is a life-altering choice that an adult should make for themselves. So, no if the genetic tests came back that said my fetus carried the "gay gene", I wouldn't do anything about it and just let the child have a normal childhood.

I find that interesting. You would not change your child pre-birth but yourself you would. I would lean in the EXACT opposite direction. Had I made it to twenty gay, I don’t think I would have found a reason to change who and what I was. At that point, I would have already established my wants and goals. If my child was going to be gay though, that is when I would do such a thing, pre-birth, so that my child grew up as all other children do. After you get older, that kind of change can have pretty drastic impacts into your life as you are changing something that is very fundamental to yourself.

Having a gay gene doesn't necessarily mean one will grow up as a homosexual. For instance, we're learning that people can carry a gene for diabetes or to contract cancer but the gene has to be turned on by something in the environment. The theory is that homosexuality is the same in that the tendency exists but there is something environmental that switched on that tendency. This is why people are "on the spectrum" between die-hard hetero to bi to full-fledged homo. This is also why people can go 40 years as "normal" before they become pre-diabetic.

A child is a sexual being but they aren't sexual. Their sexual orientation isn't an issue when they are a child. As they get into the teenaged years the parents can let them know about the "magic medical therapy" that they can obtain when they are an adult ... if they want to.

There is no gay gene.

 

[FA_Q2]

Would you cure red hair? How about brown eyes? or maybe girls who are taller than 5'7" and men that are shorter than 5' 7"?

What is the point of curing something that has no harm to the rest of the population? As a matter of fact some actually like red hair, brown eyes, and tall women. -Not sure about short men but I am sure there is someone out there who likes them.
Some people like gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals, and transsexuals. If that bothers you perhaps you should be "cured".

For myself, yes. If it were simple and cheap, there are plenty of things that I would cure and there are things that many people do on a daily basis. Many women cure small boobs for instance. IOW, your monologue is rather pointless to the topic as has been pointed out there are a lot of people here that would utilize an option such as this. Don’t like the word ‘cure’ applied here then argue over that but I would find that rather pointless as the question was directed mostly at changing that trait pre-birth.

 

[Asclepias]

NOTE: we are in the CDZ

My question is simple. Let’s say that (because this question is meaningless if not true) being a homosexual is not a choice and is either a circumstance of either genes and/or environment. If that is true then it should be completely possible (even if not with today’s technology) to essentially ‘cure’ gay by adjusting the underlying genetic codes. I am not here to be inflammatory (hence this being in the CDZ) or derogatory to gays but I am interested, particularly if you are gay, in peoples opinion here if they would take such a cure for themselves or for their children. Would you, if you had went through the process to become pregnant and have a child, agree to a simple procedure pre-birth to test your child’s sexuality and change it? Post birth?

I expect mostly no from gays and yes from many others but am interested in people’s perspective in this. I think that had I that type of pre warning/procedure, I would likely take it.

I'd say no. My personal thought about being gay is that its natures form of population control. My broader view is why try and cure something that is not a sickness nor does it harm the remaining populace? The only bad thing that comes out of being gay is other peoples opinions of something that has absolutely no affect on their lives.

 

[FA_Q2]

NOTE: we are in the CDZ

My question is simple. Let’s say that (because this question is meaningless if not true) being a homosexual is not a choice and is either a circumstance of either genes and/or environment. If that is true then it should be completely possible (even if not with today’s technology) to essentially ‘cure’ gay by adjusting the underlying genetic codes. I am not here to be inflammatory (hence this being in the CDZ) or derogatory to gays but I am interested, particularly if you are gay, in peoples opinion here if they would take such a cure for themselves or for their children. Would you, if you had went through the process to become pregnant and have a child, agree to a simple procedure pre-birth to test your child’s sexuality and change it? Post birth?

I expect mostly no from gays and yes from many others but am interested in people’s perspective in this. I think that had I that type of pre warning/procedure, I would likely take it.

I'd say no. My personal thought about being gay is that its natures form of population control. My broader view is why try and cure something that is not a sickness nor does it harm the remaining populace? The only bad thing that comes out of being gay is other peoples opinions of something that has absolutely no affect on their lives.

You also cannot naturally have children. Would you cure infertility? I would assume so. I know that I felt pretty bad when my doctors told me that my son is never going to have children of his own due to testicular radiation that had to be administered. I think that he is going to miss something very beautiful in his life and that upsets me very much. If I could cure that, I would in a heartbeat.

That is one side effect of being gay. There are others, all of which are manageable but there are still side effects. The strife that a young gay person is going to face in their life simply because they are different is another. For some, this is enough to consider changing them. For others, it’s not enough but there are reasons that some would do it.

 

[Asclepias]

NOTE: we are in the CDZ

My question is simple. Let’s say that (because this question is meaningless if not true) being a homosexual is not a choice and is either a circumstance of either genes and/or environment. If that is true then it should be completely possible (even if not with today’s technology) to essentially ‘cure’ gay by adjusting the underlying genetic codes. I am not here to be inflammatory (hence this being in the CDZ) or derogatory to gays but I am interested, particularly if you are gay, in peoples opinion here if they would take such a cure for themselves or for their children. Would you, if you had went through the process to become pregnant and have a child, agree to a simple procedure pre-birth to test your child’s sexuality and change it? Post birth?

I expect mostly no from gays and yes from many others but am interested in people’s perspective in this. I think that had I that type of pre warning/procedure, I would likely take it.

I'd say no. My personal thought about being gay is that its natures form of population control. My broader view is why try and cure something that is not a sickness nor does it harm the remaining populace? The only bad thing that comes out of being gay is other peoples opinions of something that has absolutely no affect on their lives.

You also cannot naturally have children. Would you cure infertility? I would assume so. I know that I felt pretty bad when my doctors told me that my son is never going to have children of his own due to testicular radiation that had to be administered. I think that he is going to miss something very beautiful in his life and that upsets me very much. If I could cure that, I would in a heartbeat.

That is one side effect of being gay. There are others, all of which are manageable but there are still side effects. The strife that a young gay person is going to face in their life simply because they are different is another. For some, this is enough to consider changing them. For others, it’s not enough but there are reasons that some would do it.

I feel the same about infertility. There really is no reason to cure it other than people wanting to have a child that carries their genes (which may be defective). There are plenty of parentless children needing homes. The strife a gay person feels is a direct result of what pressure their parents, family, and society at large places on them.