Would this be considered racial profiling?

[Vanquish]

Agreed. Totally agree.

I think the problem becomes whether skin-color, broken English, or some other racial identifier is enough PC by itself without a pre-textual stop in the mix.

The problem is that every person of color will complain that they are being discriminated against because of race even if the cop had a laundry list of credible reasons to ask for I.D.

Not true at all, Skull.

You're making a sweeping generalization that has no basis in fact.

I don't know if you know this...but comments like that make you sound like an "angry white guy". I dont know who you are at all, but all people of color don't play the race card. And saying they do is insulting. As a white lawyer doing some civil rights work, I deal with LOTS of people of color who endure LOTS of mistreatment just for their skin color...often they put up with it for a long time before they even think of complaining...and many never ever do.

So stop saying minorities are going to abuse the system. That's just racial tension speaking.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Agreed. Totally agree.

I think the problem becomes whether skin-color, broken English, or some other racial identifier is enough PC by itself without a pre-textual stop in the mix.

The problem is that every person of color will complain that they are being discriminated against because of race even if the cop had a laundry list of credible reasons to ask for I.D.

Not true at all, Skull.

You're making a sweeping generalization that has no basis in fact.

I don't know if you know this...but comments like that make you sound like an "angry white guy". I dont know who you are at all, but all people of color don't play the race card. And saying they do is insulting. As a white lawyer doing some civil rights work, I deal with LOTS of people of color who endure LOTS of mistreatment just for their skin color...often they put up with it for a long time before they even think of complaining...and many never ever do.

So stop saying minorities are going to abuse the system. That's just racial tension speaking.

And assuming cops will misuse the law is what exactly?

 

[amrchaos]

By the way

If a driver does not have a drivers license, request for Identification is mandatory! In some states, impounding the car is mandatory!

In other words, if the officer does his job according to the books, the truth of the drivers situation will come out.

So what is the purpose of this law again?​

You want to stem the tide of illegal immigration into Arizona by arresting people that break the law? Don't get me wrong, but don't the officers of Arizona already do this?

The whole passing of this law is starting to smell fishy. Either Arizona passed a law that was already enforced, or Arizona is attempting to use racial profiling in an attempt to curtail illegal immigration in the state, OR this law is propaganda bullshit designed, in its most simplest case , to bring attention to Arizona's immigration problem.

Come to think about it, there is alot of cattle out west, isn't there?

 

[Granny]

No racial profiling in this situation. As I understand it, the Arizona law closely follows the federal immigration law that has been on the books for some time. If the feds won't enforce federal law - then the states have to create state laws that they can and should enforce.

Also there's a lot of stuff that is not being taken into account in all this uproar. Yes, there are good cops and bad cops. Good cops are going to do a good job and bad cops are basically going to deliberately beat the snot out people for whatever reason comes to mind.

And, very frankly, I've become sick and damned tired of all this "political correctness." What it boils down to is censorship. Period. I'm sick and tired of all the "civil rights" that people think they are "entitled to." I'm sick and tired of all the whining and moaning and groaning about anything and everything that really only all boils down to somebody's own little personal problem being imposed on everybody else by way of some piss-poor law that has been enacted.

The illegal immigration problem is an out-of-control situation. These illegals have entered this country without going through ANY of the legal requirements/channels that EVERYBODY ELSE has to go through be here legitimately. I wonder why the Libs aren't squalling "Where's the fairness and equality in that?" But, no, they have picked ONE group of people to champion and say, "Hey, you can come into this country no matter what, but we're going to require everybody else to adhere to the law if they want to come in. We, as taxpayers, will feed you, clothe you, house you. You're entitled to it because you're working at such low wages. All is well even though you're sending a large proportion of that money back to the family because they can stretch an American dollar far more than they can a Mexican peso." Fruck that!

Do you think for one minute that you and hundreds of thousands of other people could just casually swim across the English Channel and land on Omaha Beach or Utah Beach and enter France with no paperwork or ID, that the French would greet you with open arms? Hell no! The French would be putting up barbed wire, reinstalling the German bunkers and shooting the shit out of everybody. That's why we have passports to say "I am a citizen of the US, but want to be allowed in your country and here's my passport.

And that's exactly what we should do at our border. Period. And those who already here with no paperwork or ID should be immediately deported.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most conservatives support racial profiling. I don't know why they're giving us such a song and dance.

Why don't you cons just argue from the perspective of your true feelings, i.e., that there's nothing wrong with racial profiling, that it ought to be legal, and that it ought to be done?

Enough with the charade.

Why do you have a problem that if after a cop stops someone for a valid reason that said cop then asks for I.D.?

It happens all the time no matter what race a person is. Why just the other day I had a tail light out and a State Trooper pulled me over and asked for my license, registration and proof of insurance.

Maybe I should scream discrimination.

I didn't say the example was racial profiling I think I said it wasn't. I meant to. My point is that since most conservatives do in fact support racial profiling why don't they argue from their honest opinion? As opposed to constantly trying to prove something isn't racial profiling?

Is that a tacit admission that conservatives know racial profiling is RACIST and/or UNCONSTITUTIONAL, but in their hearts they don't care - by supporting it anyway?

 

[Big Black Dog]

Most conservatives support racial profiling. I don't know why they're giving us such a song and dance.

Why don't you cons just argue from the perspective of your true feelings, i.e., that there's nothing wrong with racial profiling, that it ought to be legal, and that it ought to be done?

Enough with the charade.

Well - I am probably a bit different than most people because I could give a crap less about political correctness. Let's be real here. In Arizona it's a safe bet that more than 99.9% of the illegal aliens there are Mexican. What, you think Arizona is being over run by illegal Swedish aliens or something? The vast majority of illegal aliens in this country are Mexican so why not put a strong eye on the biggest offenders? If you happen to be a black guy in an predominently white neighborhood at 2:30 am, driving your car real slow up and down the same street, not only is your driving suspect but your reason for being there and the fact that you are black signals something wrong with the picture. Are you to believe this person is looking for the nearest pizza joint? Everybody is chickenshit about racial profiling but it does have a useful purpose and I believe it should be a tool available to the police or anybody else in law enforcement. I think we would be best served by being a little bit less ignorant about the value of racial profiling. Another big question I have is why aren't people outraged about the illegal Mexican aliens because they have committed a criminal act by being in this country illegally. I don't supose that really matters to those who think they are being "picked" on because they are Mexican. Get real people.

 

[Skull Pilot]

By the way

If a driver does not have a drivers license, request for Identification is mandatory! In some states, impounding the car is mandatory!

In other words, if the officer does his job according to the books, the truth of the drivers situation will come out.

So what is the purpose of this law again?​

You want to stem the tide of illegal immigration into Arizona by arresting people that break the law? Don't get me wrong, but don't the officers of Arizona already do this?

The whole passing of this law is starting to smell fishy. Either Arizona passed a law that was already enforced, or Arizona is attempting to use racial profiling in an attempt to curtail illegal immigration in the state, OR this law is propaganda bullshit designed, in its most simplest case , to bring attention to Arizona's immigration problem.

Come to think about it, there is alot of cattle out west, isn't there?

The reason the law was passed is that even if an AZ cop arrested an illegal for driving without a license the fucking federal government would not deport the guy.

It is the federal government's abdication of its responsibility to enforce immigration laws that caused this.

 

[Vanquish]

The problem is that every person of color will complain that they are being discriminated against because of race even if the cop had a laundry list of credible reasons to ask for I.D.

Not true at all, Skull.

You're making a sweeping generalization that has no basis in fact.

I don't know if you know this...but comments like that make you sound like an "angry white guy". I dont know who you are at all, but all people of color don't play the race card. And saying they do is insulting. As a white lawyer doing some civil rights work, I deal with LOTS of people of color who endure LOTS of mistreatment just for their skin color...often they put up with it for a long time before they even think of complaining...and many never ever do.

So stop saying minorities are going to abuse the system. That's just racial tension speaking.

And assuming cops will misuse the law is what exactly?

First of all, I never said that the law would be misused. Pretextual stops ARENT illegal per se. Second of all I never said "white" cops. In a lot of places the non-white cops out number the white ones 60/40. (See what it's like when you stay honest and keep to facts not trying to skew things?)

The "angry white man" syndrome from the Michael Douglas movie "Falling Down" isn't just some common-sense take on life....a lot of times it's racial frustration peaking out. (Notice I didnt say or imply racism)

Dont make sweeping generalizations about how minorities abuse the race card. Yes, it happens, but you can't just do away with constitutional protections for race because of some bad apples.

 

[Murf76]

I'm constantly amazed at the hypocrisy of liberals. They're near hysteria at the prospect that some poor brown-skinned immigrant might be asked to show ID by a police officer in the performance of his/her duties... but couldn't work up a squeak when the federal government SEIZED the medical records of every man, woman, and child in this country bearing legal citizenship.

Some bureaucrat in Washington will have access to the most minute and intimate functions of your very bodies... but your outrage on the matter of privacy is limited to cops asking for ID.

Seriously. The mind boggles.

 

[Zoom-boing]

No racial profiling in this situation. As I understand it, the Arizona law closely follows the federal immigration law that has been on the books for some time. If the feds won't enforce federal law - then the states have to create state laws that they can and should enforce.

Also there's a lot of stuff that is not being taken into account in all this uproar. Yes, there are good cops and bad cops. Good cops are going to do a good job and bad cops are basically going to deliberately beat the snot out people for whatever reason comes to mind.

And, very frankly, I've become sick and damned tired of all this "political correctness." What it boils down to is censorship. Period. I'm sick and tired of all the "civil rights" that people think they are "entitled to." I'm sick and tired of all the whining and moaning and groaning about anything and everything that really only all boils down to somebody's own little personal problem being imposed on everybody else by way of some piss-poor law that has been enacted.

The illegal immigration problem is an out-of-control situation. These illegals have entered this country without going through ANY of the legal requirements/channels that EVERYBODY ELSE has to go through be here legitimately. I wonder why the Libs aren't squalling "Where's the fairness and equality in that?" But, no, they have picked ONE group of people to champion and say, "Hey, you can come into this country no matter what, but we're going to require everybody else to adhere to the law if they want to come in. We, as taxpayers, will feed you, clothe you, house you. You're entitled to it because you're working at such low wages. All is well even though you're sending a large proportion of that money back to the family because they can stretch an American dollar far more than they can a Mexican peso." Fruck that!

Do you think for one minute that you and hundreds of thousands of other people could just casually swim across the English Channel and land on Omaha Beach or Utah Beach and enter France with no paperwork or ID, that the French would greet you with open arms? Hell no! The French would be putting up barbed wire, reinstalling the German bunkers and shooting the shit out of everybody. That's why we have passports to say "I am a citizen of the US, but want to be allowed in your country and here's my passport.

And that's exactly what we should do at our border. Period. And those who already here with no paperwork or ID should be immediately deported.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I'm constantly amazed at the hypocrisy of liberals. They're near hysteria at the prospect that some poor brown-skinned immigrant might be asked to show ID by a police officer in the performance of his/her duties... but couldn't work up a squeak when the federal government SEIZED the medical records of every man, woman, and child in this country bearing legal citizenship.

Some bureaucrat in Washington will have access to the most minute and intimate functions of your very bodies... but your outrage on the matter of privacy is limited to cops asking for ID.

Seriously. The mind boggles.

It does make one wonder what goes on in the minds they have left . . . er, in the minds of the left.

 

[Vanquish]

Petty insults...that's what you're coming to the boards with? Wow. Amazing guys.

Sweeping insults about the left OR the right...just makes the person look...well, foolish and untrustworthy.

 

[Murf76]

I'm constantly amazed at the hypocrisy of liberals. They're near hysteria at the prospect that some poor brown-skinned immigrant might be asked to show ID by a police officer in the performance of his/her duties... but couldn't work up a squeak when the federal government SEIZED the medical records of every man, woman, and child in this country bearing legal citizenship.

Some bureaucrat in Washington will have access to the most minute and intimate functions of your very bodies... but your outrage on the matter of privacy is limited to cops asking for ID.

Seriously. The mind boggles.

It does make one wonder what goes on in the minds they have left . . . er, in the minds of the left.

Yeah, it does.

These people have no problem with some federal government flunky knowing the size and consistency of their last recorded BM or whether or not their VD has been cleared up... but they're flipping the fuck out because somewhere in Arizona a U.S. citizen might be asked to show his ID to a cop in the course of a routine police stop.

Behavior this nonsensical can only be politically motivated.

 

[Vanquish]

Hey wait! It's "libruls r evul" post #123123123123!

Great bullshit.

 

[Neser Boha]

Petty insults...that's what you're coming to the boards with? Wow. Amazing guys.

Sweeping insults about the left OR the right...just makes the person look...well, foolish and untrustworthy.

You just described the general practice here on USMB. Nobody comes here to have a serious debate, this is just a place for a bunch of partisan hacks to vent their frustrations at each other. You'll find a few genuine people here, but they're in a tiny minority. Most discussions that start out serious end up being idiotic screaming matches.

If you're looking for a serious political debate, this is the least likely place to find it I think it'd be more realistic to go to a library or a geek hang-out, I know one in ATL and a few in STHLM

 

[Si modo]

Petty insults...that's what you're coming to the boards with? Wow. Amazing guys.

Sweeping insults about the left OR the right...just makes the person look...well, foolish and untrustworthy.

You just described the general practice here on USMB. Nobody comes here to have a serious debate, this is just a place for a bunch of partisan hacks to vent their frustrations at each other. You'll find a few genuine people here, but they're in a tiny minority. Most discussions that start out serious end up being idiotic screaming matches.

If you're looking for a serious political debate, this is the least likely place to find it I think it'd be more realistic to go to a library or a geek hang-out, I know one in ATL and a few in STHLM

What a hypocrite you are. You parrot blogs then when called out on the error of what you parroted, the best you can do is personally attack those who demonstrated it to you. Clearly you have no interest in any 'serious debate'.

 

[skookerasbil]

Im alive almost 50 years now...........have never seen this level of phoney spin from the media before in my life. The mainstream media has now redefined the level of absurd with all the racial bait stuff. Tens of thousands of Hispanics in Arizona said, "Bring it on!!!" with this law. Media never reports that however...........

And fcukk all the k00ks who follow the political correctness march like a bunch of sheep..............they can move to Nezahaulcoyotal and enjoy taking their morning dump in a bathroom without a roof!!!


And speaking of "dump"............all the libs should move to Mexico and start their own fcukking dump to live in..............a gigantic limpwrister community that can have all the immigration it wants!!!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Most conservatives support racial profiling. I don't know why they're giving us such a song and dance.

Why don't you cons just argue from the perspective of your true feelings, i.e., that there's nothing wrong with racial profiling, that it ought to be legal, and that it ought to be done?

Enough with the charade.

Well - I am probably a bit different than most people because I could give a crap less about political correctness. Let's be real here. In Arizona it's a safe bet that more than 99.9% of the illegal aliens there are Mexican. What, you think Arizona is being over run by illegal Swedish aliens or something? The vast majority of illegal aliens in this country are Mexican so why not put a strong eye on the biggest offenders? If you happen to be a black guy in an predominently white neighborhood at 2:30 am, driving your car real slow up and down the same street, not only is your driving suspect but your reason for being there and the fact that you are black signals something wrong with the picture. Are you to believe this person is looking for the nearest pizza joint? Everybody is chickenshit about racial profiling but it does have a useful purpose and I believe it should be a tool available to the police or anybody else in law enforcement. I think we would be best served by being a little bit less ignorant about the value of racial profiling. Another big question I have is why aren't people outraged about the illegal Mexican aliens because they have committed a criminal act by being in this country illegally. I don't supose that really matters to those who think they are being "picked" on because they are Mexican. Get real people.

Then 'fix' the Constitution. Change the innocent until proven guilty, the protections from searches without cause, rights of privacy, in such a way that if you belong to a certain demographic, whether racial, ethnic, or whatever, that has a disproportionately high percentage of criminal activity

you would not be entitled to those protections, without regard to the possibility of your personal innocence.

 

[bodecea]

Most conservatives support racial profiling. I don't know why they're giving us such a song and dance.

Why don't you cons just argue from the perspective of your true feelings, i.e., that there's nothing wrong with racial profiling, that it ought to be legal, and that it ought to be done?

Enough with the charade.

Why do you have a problem that if after a cop stops someone for a valid reason that said cop then asks for I.D.?

It happens all the time no matter what race a person is. Why just the other day I had a tail light out and a State Trooper pulled me over and asked for my license, registration and proof of insurance.

Maybe I should scream discrimination.

You were the driver, correct? Did he ask your passenger for ID?

 

[teapartysamurai]

An Arizona state trooper is patrolling the northern part of the state. He sees a vehicle travelling 75 in a 55 zone and pulls it over. He immediately sees 5 white men with blonde, close crop hair, blue eyes and wearing clothing that is not of normal fashion. Such as out-dated polo shirts, bland jeans that are close fitting, etc. The back windshield has a Soviet Union flag sticker that is faded and worn. The tags are expired Washington tags.

While speaking to the 5 men, the officer advised them of the speeding violation, and none could provide any USA driver's license, social security card or passport. All spoke broken English with a strong Eastern European accent. When asked where they live, they all say they are just visiting friends. A check through his dispatch of their names and birthdates show no US identification could be found. The only ID cards he could locate on the men were national ID cards from Russia.

The Arizona officer then begins to think they are illegally in the country and requests their immigration documents.


Would this be racial profiling? Because substitute the following:

White man with Hispanic man
Blonde hair blue eyes with black hair brown eyes
Washington tags with California tags
Soviet Union sticker with Mexico sticker
Eastern Europe accents with Spanish accents
Russian ID cards with Mexican ID cards

Just sub the above the the latter, and you'll have cries of racial profiling, although it's clear this law can and will be enforced on illegals of any nationality with probable cause.

Better example:

All the FBI et al profilers during the DC sniper case said that they were looking for angry white men.

Thus the real DC snipers were allowed to go on and kill, even getting stopped by cops and let go, because the "experts" said the killers were angry white men.