---------------------------------- I'll just wait to see what happens if the Trump is elected . If he says after election , lets waterboard , well , I'll deliver the water RWinger .
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Would The Military Obey Commander In Chief Trump? Probably.
- Thread starter Lakhota
- Start date
- Sep 19, 2011
- 28,389
- 9,969
- 900
---------------------------------- I'll just wait to see what happens if the Trump is elected . If he says after election , lets waterboard , well , I'll deliver the water RWinger .--------------------------------- sure , course i ain't a terrorist and terrorists deserve water boarding if it is deemed to be needed Jillian .----------------------------------------- water boarding ain't torture RWinger !!Americans do not torture
I'm going to guess you'd feel differently if it were done to you.
Most people who engage in torture justify it by saying they deserve it
I just read this article and it changed my mind about my support of waterboarding.
The most practical reason for my not supporting it is that waterboarding may get the truth but most times it doesn't and it does kill.
No Doubt about It: Waterboarding Is Torture. Period.
---------------------------------- I'll just wait to see what happens if the Trump is elected . If he says after election , lets waterboard , well , I'll deliver the water RWinger .--------------------------------- sure , course i ain't a terrorist and terrorists deserve water boarding if it is deemed to be needed Jillian .----------------------------------------- water boarding ain't torture RWinger !!Americans do not torture
I'm going to guess you'd feel differently if it were done to you.
Most people who engage in torture justify it by saying they deserve it
It doesn't look much like the electoral map is going that way. And honestly when so many security professionals and experts in international relations say he's dangerous, voters should believe them They have no horse in the race.
------------------------------------- hey Jillian , thing that i'll rely on is my own thinking rather than the socalled experts and security professionals . In other words , feck those people . -------------- I'm going TRUMP as he is the last chance for the USA imo but others can go 'hilary' . The way I have things figured I win either way . The real gnashing of teeth will come from the moderate republicans who won't vote TRUMP but they have some money stashed away or good incomes to be taxed but who also hate the TRUMP Jillian .---------------------------------- I'll just wait to see what happens if the Trump is elected . If he says after election , lets waterboard , well , I'll deliver the water RWinger .--------------------------------- sure , course i ain't a terrorist and terrorists deserve water boarding if it is deemed to be needed Jillian .----------------------------------------- water boarding ain't torture RWinger !!
I'm going to guess you'd feel differently if it were done to you.
Most people who engage in torture justify it by saying they deserve it
It doesn't look much like the electoral map is going that way. And honestly when so many security professionals and experts in international relations say he's dangerous, voters should believe them They have no horse in the race.
------------------------------------- hey Jillian , thing that i'll rely on is my own thinking rather than the socalled experts and security professionals . In other words , feck those people . -------------- I'm going TRUMP as he is the last chance for the USA imo but others can go 'hilary' . The way I have things figured I win either way . The real gnashing of teeth will come from the moderate republicans who won't vote TRUMP but they have some money stashed away or good incomes to be taxed but who also hate the TRUMP Jillian .---------------------------------- I'll just wait to see what happens if the Trump is elected . If he says after election , lets waterboard , well , I'll deliver the water RWinger .--------------------------------- sure , course i ain't a terrorist and terrorists deserve water boarding if it is deemed to be needed Jillian .I'm going to guess you'd feel differently if it were done to you.
Most people who engage in torture justify it by saying they deserve it
It doesn't look much like the electoral map is going that way. And honestly when so many security professionals and experts in international relations say he's dangerous, voters should believe them They have no horse in the race.
Sometimes ones own thinking should be tempered by what people with first hand knowledge say. It's like when Donald says he "talks to [himself]" about foreign policy because he know more than the generals. Now don't you think that sounds silly?
---------------------------------------- you and other moderates can do as you like , I gave my thoughts and answer Jillian .------------------------------------- hey Jillian , thing that i'll rely on is my own thinking rather than the socalled experts and security professionals . In other words , feck those people . -------------- I'm going TRUMP as he is the last chance for the USA imo but others can go 'hilary' . The way I have things figured I win either way . The real gnashing of teeth will come from the moderate republicans who won't vote TRUMP but they have some money stashed away or good incomes to be taxed but who also hate the TRUMP Jillian .---------------------------------- I'll just wait to see what happens if the Trump is elected . If he says after election , lets waterboard , well , I'll deliver the water RWinger .--------------------------------- sure , course i ain't a terrorist and terrorists deserve water boarding if it is deemed to be needed Jillian .
Most people who engage in torture justify it by saying they deserve it
It doesn't look much like the electoral map is going that way. And honestly when so many security professionals and experts in international relations say he's dangerous, voters should believe them They have no horse in the race.
Sometimes ones own thinking should be tempered by what people with first hand knowledge say. It's like when Donald says he "talks to [himself]" about foreign policy because he know more than the generals. Now don't you think that sounds silly?
and if you look at mrobama and his boy generals and their war these last 14 / mrobamas8 years and they don't seem to be doing so well fighting 'isamist' sheep herders . As contrast , my parents generation fought 2 world wars in 2 separate theatres of war and kicked their enemies azzez pretty handily and in record time . Anyway , Trump seems to be Old Style and I like that Jillian .
Even if some officers thought his orders were illegal or unethical.
Donald J. Trump is causing some high anxiety inside the military.
He has suggested carpet-bombing Syrian cities, assassinating the families of Islamic State fighters and torturing detainees, all illegal under international or U.S. law. He has proposed withdrawing troops from South Korea (a similar troop withdrawal helped ignite the 1950 Korean War), advocated disengaging from NATO, and declared that Japan would be “better off” with its own nuclear weapons. And he has famously bragged, “I know more about ISIS than the generals!”
The U.S. military prides itself on scrupulous adherence to strict moral and ethical values. While some in the ranks may be passionate Trump supporters, for others, the idea of actually carrying out his more bizarre ideas is unthinkable.
“I cannot imagine active-duty troops doing what Trump is stating,” said Paul Eaton, an Army two-star general who resigned in 2006 in protest against Bush administration military policies. “I believe we would have outright defiance,” Eaton told The Huffington Post. Michael Hayden, a retired Air Force four-star general and former director of the National Security Agency, is even more blunt. Given an order to kill families of suspected terrorists, “the American armed forces would refuse to act,” he said.
Trump has fired back. “They won’t refuse. They’re not going to refuse me,” he boasted at a March 3 GOP presidential debate. “Believe me ― If I say do it, they’re gonna do it.”
Trump may be right. Despite its occasional disagreements with presidents and civilian officials, the military doesn’t have an especially proud record of refusing orders. Military officers swear an oath of allegiance to the Constitution, not to the commander in chief. Nevertheless, the top brass, despite deep misgivings about the conduct of the wars in Vietnam and Iraq, quietly went along with what the White House wanted. In 11 years of war in Vietnam, 58,220 Americans were killed; 4,520 Americans have died in the still-raging Iraq War so far.
“Do what’s right, legally and morally,” the Army instructs its soldiers.
--U.S. Army Doctrine, Army Values
The record suggests that the United States military, which takes pride in its strong professional ethics, nevertheless is no bulwark against military fiascos.
“It’s hard for military officers to disobey orders,” said Peter Mansoor, a historian and retired Army colonel who was the top aide to Gen. David Petraeus during the Iraq War troop surge in 2007-2008. “It’s a career-ending move that likely will get you court-martialed. One has to be willing to put one’s future on the line.”
The legal lines are clear. Waterboarding, used on detainees during the Bush administration as an “enhanced interrogation technique,” or torture, is illegal under international and now U.S. law. The deliberate targeting of war-zone civilians, whether or not they are related to ISIS fighters or other terrorists, is a war crime under international law.
Nevertheless, Trump has asserted that both are necessary and, if he’s president, would be part of his war on ISIS.
“You have to take out their families,” Trump said three times during a phone interviewwith Fox News last December, brushing aside the issue of civilian casualties as “political correctness.”
These and other Trump pronouncements may be impulsive bluster, but they clash hard against the military’s values of personal courage, honor, integrity and loyalty, among others. At its core, the military’s value system is its commitment to use lethal violence only when legally and morally justified.
“Do what’s right, legally and morally,” the Army instructs its soldiers. “Facing moral fear or adversity may be a long, slow process of continuing forward on the right path, especially if taking those actions is not popular with others.”
More: Would The Military Obey Commander In Chief Trump? Probably.
This is yet another reason why I find the thought of a President Trump very dangerous and repugnant - because I agree with the OP that most soldiers would likely obey illegal, immoral and/or unethical orders from the president.
The military obey the Chi Town Clown, of course they would obey Trump
You know what waterboarding is most useful for? Getting people to make false confessions because they want it to stop and will agree to anything.
Was used most effectively by many dictators over the years.
BTW................zero good intel came from the waterboarding that we did.
Was used most effectively by many dictators over the years.
BTW................zero good intel came from the waterboarding that we did.
----------------------------------------- so what , the guys that were waterboarded where criminal terrorists BSailor . Point is , sometimes it works , sometimes it doesn't so like I asked , so what ??You know what waterboarding is most useful for? Getting people to make false confessions because they want it to stop and will agree to anything.
Was used most effectively by many dictators over the years.
BTW................zero good intel came from the waterboarding that we did.
You know what waterboarding is most useful for? Getting people to make false confessions because they want it to stop and will agree to anything.
Was used most effectively by many dictators over the years.
BTW................zero good intel came from the waterboarding that we did.
Wow, so you know more than military experts, how ... do you get your head through doorways?
LOL. What's actually happening is Democrats tell you what to think ... and you think it, Nancy
You know what waterboarding is most useful for? Getting people to make false confessions because they want it to stop and will agree to anything.
Was used most effectively by many dictators over the years.
BTW................zero good intel came from the waterboarding that we did.
Wow, so you know more than military experts, how ... do you get your head through doorways?
LOL. What's actually happening is Democrats tell you what to think ... and you think it, Nancy
The best intel that we got during the Iraq war didn't come from waterboarding, but rather from sugar free cookies that were given to a terrorist who was diabetic.
Time Says Cookies Make Terrorists Talk | Sweetness & Light
Didn't y'all see how Obama treated the potential hostage situation where a gaggle of crying U.S. Sailors were kidnapped under the noses of the greatest Military in the world? He sent 400 million in cold hard cash to the kidnappers. If self respecting Generals can obey the orders of a president who's autobiography is titled "dreams of my father" and his father was an alcoholic African left wing nationalist who hated America, they will think it's a breath of freaking fresh air when Trump gets elected.
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