Would the death penalty be okay here?

[chanel]

I respect your opinion radioman, but the majority of the people in NJ disagree.

Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) -- A majority of New Jersey voters oppose a proposal to eliminate the state's death penalty, which narrowly passed the Senate yesterday and will be considered by the Assembly later this week.

A repeal measure is opposed by a 53 percent to 39 percent margin, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. Seventy-eight percent of New Jersey voters would keep the death penalty for the most violent cases, the poll found.

New Jersey Voters Oppose Eliminating Death Penalty (Update2) - Bloomberg

Corzine, not unlike our uber liberal Congress, doesn't give a rat's ass what the public wants.

 

[RadiomanATL]

I respect your opinion radioman, but the majority of the people in NJ disagree.

Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) -- A majority of New Jersey voters oppose a proposal to eliminate the state's death penalty, which narrowly passed the Senate yesterday and will be considered by the Assembly later this week.

A repeal measure is opposed by a 53 percent to 39 percent margin, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. Seventy-eight percent of New Jersey voters would keep the death penalty for the most violent cases, the poll found.

New Jersey Voters Oppose Eliminating Death Penalty (Update2) - Bloomberg

Corzine, not unlike our uber liberal Congress, doesn't give a rat's ass what the public wants.

IMO, subjects like the death penalty is exactly why we do not have a direct democracy. The will of the people rules in California, and look at the shit they've backed themselves into.

 

[chanel]

Ha ha. Well NJ is almost as far down the shitter as CA, but it didn't have anything to with the people. lol

 

[syrenn]

NEWARK — Authorities in Essex County arrested a Newark man Thursday night accused of sexually assaulting and murdering a 7-month-old baby girl.

Blake is accused of assaulting and killing Dalaysia Rhymer, the 7-month-old daughter of a woman he had dated.

Blake was alone with the baby after her grandmother left to go to the hospital unexpectedly with back pain. The baby’s 21-year-old mother, who was planning to attend an event in Manhattan for Gay Pride Week, instead spent the day at a female friend’s home in Newark, authorities said.

...the infant was taken to University Hospital in Newark with a fractured skull, ruptured spleen, broken ribs, bruising to the spine and a lacerated liver.

Blake’s criminal record includes a dozen arrests for drug and weapons charges, authorities said. He was recently released from jail, the prosecutor’s office said.

Newark man is accused of fatal beating, sex assault of 7-month-old girl | NJ.com

What is wrong here? Let me count the ways...

Even though i am two thumbs up for the death penality, that is far to good for him.

I would rather see him in jail, in GENERAL population, and the general population informed that he is a baby raper. Now that would be a fair life sentence.

 

[Bfgrn]

Shut up. We are not on the jury. We are commenting on the story as written, which points to the guy's guilt. If you don't like people opining on crime stories, I suggest you stay off the fucking internet.

From the NJ Dept. of Corrections:

How many "lifers" are incarcerated in New Jersey Department of Corrections facilities?

A: As of January 2010, 1,231 offenders are serving life sentences; of these, 60 are serving life without parole.

Frequently Asked Questions

60? A life sentence is not really a life sentence. Especially when the money runs out.

Hey moron, YOU are the one that chose the Title of YOUR thread. NOW, you want everyone to shut up and cower to your authoritarian beliefs???...screw you!

There always has been and there always will be cases where everyone could agree on capital punishment. BUT the FACTS are, it is not a deterrent, it drains funds that could best be spent preventing crime, it costs 8 times more than putting every capital punishment criminal behind bars for life: it is fiscal INSANITY.

SO, WHAT it really boils down to is you right wing morons are NOT fiscal conservatives, you are authoritarian barbarians. You devout 'Statists' justify murder by the state and even if a few innocent human being are sacrificed, so what.

You right wingers are not tough on crime, you are tough on freedom and liberty.

California
Report of the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice

“The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California’s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.”

Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.

The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.

The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.

The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.

Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice, June 30, 2008).

Maryland
New Study Reveals Maryland Pays $37 Million for One Execution


Federal Costs

The average cost of defending a trial in a federal death case is $620,932, about 8 times that of a federal murder case in which the death penalty is not sought. A study found that those defendants whose representation was the least expensive, and thus who received the least amount of attorney and expert time, had an increased probability of receiving a death sentence. Defendants with less than $320,000 in terms of representation costs (the bottom 1/3 of federal capital trials) had a 44% chance of receiving a death sentence at trial. On the other hand, those defendants whose representation costs were higher than $320,000 (the remaining 2/3 of federal capital trials) had only a 19% chance of being sentenced to death. Thus, the study concluded that defendants with low representation costs were more than twice as likely to receive a death sentence. The complete report can be found here.

(Office of Defender Services of the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts, "Update on Cost, Quality, and Availability of Defense Representation in Federal Death Penalty Cases," June 2008; prepared by Jon Gould and Lisa Greenman).

Washington
Report to Washington State Bar Association regarding cost

At the trial level, death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 in additional costs to the prosecution and defense over the cost of trying the same case as an aggravated murder without the death penalty and costs of $47,000 to $70,000 for court personnel. On direct appeal, the cost of appellate defense averages $100,000 more in death penalty cases, than in non-death penalty murder cases. Personal restraint petitions filed in death penalty cases on average cost an additional $137,000 in public defense costs.
(FINAL REPORT OF THE DEATH PENALTY SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC DEFENSE, Washington State Bar Association, December 2006).


New Jersey
Death Penalty has Cost New Jersey Taxpayers $253 Million

A New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that the state's death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. The study examined the costs of death penalty cases to prosecutor offices, public defender offices, courts, and correctional facilities. The report's authors said that the cost estimate is "very conservative" because other significant costs uniquely associated with the death penalty were not available. "From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the last 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one," the report concluded. Since 1982, there have been 197 capital trials in New Jersey and 60 death sentences, of which 50 were reversed. There have been no executions, and 10 men are housed on the state's death row. Michael Murphy, former Morris County prosecutor, remarked: "If you were to ask me how $11 million a year could best protect the people of New Jersey, I would tell you by giving the law enforcement community more resources. I'm not interested in hypotheticals or abstractions, I want the tools for law enforcement to do their job, and $11 million can buy a lot of tools." (See Newsday, Nov. 21, 2005; also Press Release, New Jerseyans for Alternatives to the Death Penalty, Nov. 21, 2005). Read the Executive Summary. Read the full report. Read the NJADP Press Release.

Tennessee
Study Finds Death penalty Costly, Ineffective

Death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
Tennessee District Attorneys General are not consistent in their pursuit of the death penalty.

Surveys and interviews of district attorneys indicate that some prosecutors "use the death penalty as a 'bargaining chip' to secure plea bargains for lesser sentences."

Previous research provides no clear indication whether the death penalty acts as a method of crime prevention.

The Tennessee Court of Criminal Appeals reversed 29 percent of capital cases on direct appeal.

Although any traumatic trial may cause stress and pain for jurors, the victims' family, and the defendant's family, the pressure may be at its peak during death penalty trials. (July 2004)

Read the The Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research's Report, "Tennessee's Death Penalty: Costs and Consequences."

Kansas
Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy

In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases.

The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.

The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).

The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.

The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.

Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.

(Performance Audit Report: Costs Incurred for Death Penalty Cases: A K-GOAL Audit of the Department of Corrections) Read DPIC's Summary of the Kansas Cost Report.


USA
Death Penalty Trials Very Costly Relative to County Budgets

Capital cases burden county budgets with large unexpected costs, according to a report released by the National Bureau of Economic Research, "The Budgetary Repercussions of Capital Convictions," by Katherine Baicker. Counties manage these high costs by decreasing funding for highways and police and by increasing taxes. The report estimates that between 1982-1997 the extra cost of capital trials was $1.6 billion. (NBER Working Paper No. w8382, Issued in July 2001) Read the abstract.


Indiana
Total cost of Indiana's death penalty is 38% greater than the total cost of life without parole sentences

A study by Indiana's Criminal Law Study Commission found this to be true, assuming that 20% of death sentences are overturned and resentenced to life. (Indiana Criminal Law Study Commission, "Commission Report on Capital Sentencing," January 10, 2002)

North Carolina
Death Penalty Costs North Carolina Nearly $11 Million a Year

A recent study published by a Duke University economist revealed North Carolina could save $11 million annually if it dropped the death penalty. Philip J. Cook, a professor at Duke University's Sanford School of Public Policy, calculated the extra state costs of the death penalty during fiscal years 2005 and 2006. He calculated over $21 million worth of expenses that would have been saved if the death penalty had been repealed. The total included extra defense costs for capital cases in the trial phase, extra payments to jurors, post-conviction costs, resentencing hearings, and the extra costs to the prison system. This conservative estimate did not include resources that would have been freed up in the Office of the Appellate Defender and the North Carolina Supreme Court, the extra time spent by prosecutors in capital cases, and the costs to taxpayers for federal appeals.

The two-year costs were summed up as follows:

Extra defense costs for capital cases in trial phase $13,180,385
Extra payments to jurors $224,640
Capital post-conviction costs $7,473,556
Resentencing hearings $594,216
Prison system $169,617
Total $21,642,414

(P. Cook, "Potential Savings from Abolition of the Death Penalty in North Carolina," American Law and Economics Review, advance access, December 11, 2009)
North Carolina Spends More per Execution than on a Non-death Penalty Murder Case

The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution than the a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (. On a national basis, these figures translate to an extra cost of over $1 billion spent since 1976 on the death penalty. ("The Costs of Processing Murder Cases in North Carolina" Duke University, May 1993)


Florida
Florida Spends Millions Extra per Year on Death Penalty

Florida would save $51 million each year by punishing all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole, according to estimates by the Palm Beach Post. Based on the 44 executions Florida has carried out since 1976, that amounts to an approximate cost of $24 million for each execution. This finding takes into account the relatively few inmates who are actually executed, as well as the time and effort expended on capital defendants who are tried but convicted of a lesser murder charge, and those whose death sentences are overturned on appeal. ("The High Price of Killing Killers," Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000)

Florida Spent Average of $3.2 Million per Execution from 1973 to 1988

During that time period, Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty to achieve 18 executions. ("Bottom Line: Life in Prison One-Sixth as Expensive," Miami Herald, July 10, 1988)


Texas
Texas death penalty cases cost more than non-capital cases

That is about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. ("Executions Cost Texas Millions," Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992)

Information on Costs of the Death Penalty From DPIC

 

[daveman]

WOW Chanel, this case is the mother-load for a right wing moron like you. Look at all the inferior people you get to look down on or bash...gay's, Democrats, drug users, the list goes on...


One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
Edmund Burke

You'd rather attack chanel for her post than condemn a baby rapist and murderer?

Telling.

You are judge, jury and executioner...

TELLING!!!

Yeah, not so much. Why do you have such sympathy for this human-shaped piece of shit?

 

[Bfgrn]

You'd rather attack chanel for her post than condemn a baby rapist and murderer?

Telling.

You are judge, jury and executioner...

TELLING!!!

Yeah, not so much. Why do you have such sympathy for this human-shaped piece of shit?

Yeah, that is EXACTLY what you are. I have NO sympathy for him, if he is guilty. BUT, according to our Constitution, the Bill of Rights and our laws, he is innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the prosecution that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

WHY are you right wing pea brains so fucking stupid and UN American? I have dogs that would put you to shame.

 

[daveman]

You are judge, jury and executioner...

TELLING!!!

Yeah, not so much. Why do you have such sympathy for this human-shaped piece of shit?

Yeah, that is EXACTLY what you are. I have NO sympathy for him, if he is guilty. BUT, according to our Constitution, the Bill of Rights and our laws, he is innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the prosecution that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

WHY are you right wing pea brains so fucking stupid and UN American? I have dogs that would put you to shame.

Odd that you didn't put that caveat in there originally. No, you just jumped on chanel with both feet wearing Size Stupid boots, wanting to make this political.

I'm well aware of due process. It will be done in this case. Given the facts, there's little doubt the POS is guilty.

But chanel was asking if he's guilty, would the DP be appropriate. She wasn't asking if he was guilty or not.

I'd say your dogs are smarter than you.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yeah, not so much. Why do you have such sympathy for this human-shaped piece of shit?

Yeah, that is EXACTLY what you are. I have NO sympathy for him, if he is guilty. BUT, according to our Constitution, the Bill of Rights and our laws, he is innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the prosecution that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

WHY are you right wing pea brains so fucking stupid and UN American? I have dogs that would put you to shame.

Odd that you didn't put that caveat in there originally. No, you just jumped on chanel with both feet wearing Size Stupid boots, wanting to make this political.

I'm well aware of due process. It will be done in this case. Given the facts, there's little doubt the POS is guilty.

But chanel was asking if he's guilty, would the DP be appropriate. She wasn't asking if he was guilty or not.

I'd say your dogs are smarter than you.

Hey daveman, I didn't just fall off the back of a turnip truck, so don't try to tell or sell me on what Chanel was or wasn't saying. Her posts are laced with self righteousness and looking down on or bash...gay's, Democrats, drug users, the list goes on...

She even want the mother charged, even though the mother left her child with her own mother, not this guy. BUT, she was planning to go to a 'gay pride" event, so she is guilty of being fucking gay.

You right wingers are the fucking scum of the earth.

There is a moratorium on the death penalty here in NJ thanks to our corrupt former governor. I wouldn't be surprised if this monster gets 25 years and is out in 15. There will be an outpouring of sympathy for the young mother who planned to attend a "gay pride" event and left her baby with a dangerous felon who was just released from prison. No mention of the victims father.

This guy is not a human being and should not be treated as such. I hope they charge the mother with neglect as well.

 

[chanel]

Thanks daveman. And I will continue to post stories on pieces of shit that deserve to die.

I read the NJ Commission Report. The outraheous expense is due to the appeals made by the same people who believe that evil is relative. IF guilty, it doesn't get any more evil than this.

Eight people were on death row. Eight bullets to the head would cost less than a six pack.

 

[daveman]

Hey daveman, I didn't just fall off the back of a turnip truck, so don't try to tell or sell me on what Chanel was or wasn't saying. Her posts are laced with self righteousness and looking down on or bash...gay's, Democrats, drug users, the list goes on...

Yeah, whoopee. You had a chance to be better than that...and you chose to ignore it. Don't pretend you hold the moral high ground here.

She even want the mother charged, even though the mother left her child with her own mother, not this guy. BUT, she was planning to go to a 'gay pride" event, so she is guilty of being fucking gay.

But the guy was in her house. Why would anyone let a guy with a dozen arrests for drug and weapons charges in her house when she has a baby? Poor judgement...and now her baby's dead for it.

You right wingers are the fucking scum of the earth.

Wow. Coming from you, that's meaningless.

 

[daveman]

Thanks daveman. And I will continue to post stories on pieces of shit that deserve to die.

I read the NJ Commission Report. The outraheous expense is due to the appeals made by the same people who believe that evil is relative. IF guilty, it doesn't get any more evil than this.

Eight people were on death row. Eight bullets to the head would cost less than a six pack.

...after a trial by jury. Despite Bfgrn's ignorant characterization of conservatives, we do believe in due process.

 

[editec]

Is there a good word for people who LOVE to be OUTRAGED?

There surely ought to be one.

We see this behavior constantly on the net.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Is there a good word for people who LOVE to be OUTRAGED?

There surely ought to be one.

We see this behavior constantly on the net.

 

[daveman]

Is there a good word for people who LOVE to be OUTRAGED?

There surely ought to be one.

We see this behavior constantly on the net.

I expect Fox News has as many lefty viewers as righties...because they're looking for their daily outrage.

 

[chanel]

Anyone who isn't outraged by a story like this needs to get their fucking head examined.

And yes, I expect the mother to be charged, as she should be.

New Jersey’s law defining child abuse and neglect uses general terms. According to the law, child abuse or neglect means that a parent, guardian, or caretaker has done one of the following things:

* Caused very serious physical or emotional harm to the child or allowed someone else to harm the child;
* Sexually abused the child or allowed someone else to sexually abuse the child;
* Harmed or created a risk of harm to the child by failing to take proper care of him or her;
* Used excessive physical punishment on the child; or
* Abandoned the child.

LSNJLAW - Reporting Abuse or Neglect of a Child

By bcfrgn's standards of "innocent until proven guilty" then newspapers shouldn't be able to print the names of monsters until after the trial. I am right? Welcome to the internet hater.

 

[Bfgrn]

Is there a good word for people who LOVE to be OUTRAGED?

There surely ought to be one.

We see this behavior constantly on the net.

Hey editec, shouldn't there be OUTRAGE when the only thing the past 30 + years of 'conservative' dominated government and ideas has led to is America's decline in every meaningful measure of a civil nation? We are no longer number one in education, and the middle class has become a debtor's class. We just witnessed these 'conservatives' actually cheer-leading TORTURE. When the facts came out that most of the initial 742 detainees sent to Guantanamo in 2002 were innocent, but Bush and Cheney believed it was "politically impossible to release them" the right has NO outrage, they get indignant. They are MUSLIMS, so that's all they need to be guilty OF.

The ONLY thing America is number ONE in is leading the world in incarcerating human being. We have executed severely retarded people. One man was so severely retarded, he talked to another inmate about playing basketball AFTER he returned from his execution.

NOW, the group of people they are going after is prosecuting minors and children as adults.

The Republican Party went from the party of Lincoln to the party of authoritarians. They are NOT 'conservatives'

Maybe if you lived as long as I have and witness the drastic changes in America, YOU would be outraged. But you seem have this naive belief that there are as many authoritarians in the liberal camp as the conservatives camp...THAT is an OUTRAGEOUS error.

 

[Bfgrn]

Thanks daveman. And I will continue to post stories on pieces of shit that deserve to die.

I read the NJ Commission Report. The outraheous expense is due to the appeals made by the same people who believe that evil is relative. IF guilty, it doesn't get any more evil than this.

Eight people were on death row. Eight bullets to the head would cost less than a six pack.

 

[chanel]

Oh good one. Sure that's the exact same thing as a trial and conviction.

That's just about as absurd as spending millions of dollars to keep these monsters alive.

Oh and for the record. I do believe in trying minors as adults in heinous crimes. Like this one:

NEWARK (CBS) ― A verdict has been reached in the trial of Rodolfo Godinez, one of the six accused in the Newark school yard slayings of August, 2006.

The first suspect tried for the execution-style shootings of three friends in a Newark schoolyard in 2007 was found guilty Monday on all counts against him. Rodolfo Godinez faced 17 murder, robbery and weapons charges. He was the first of six suspects to go to trial for the vicious slayings in the high-profile case. The trial was emotional as the prosecution displayed gruesome pictures of the victims.

A fourth victim who was sexually assaulted, and survived a machete attack and a gunshot wound to the head, also testified, becoming the star witness in the case.

Suspect Guilty On All Charges In Newark Slayings - wcbstv.com

Monsters. All of them. Even the 15 year old.

 

[Bfgrn]

Oh good one. Sure that's the exact same thing as a trial and conviction.

That's just about as absurd as spending millions of dollars to keep these monsters alive.

Oh and for the record. I do believe in trying minors as adults in heinous crimes. Like this one:

NEWARK (CBS) ― A verdict has been reached in the trial of Rodolfo Godinez, one of the six accused in the Newark school yard slayings of August, 2006.

The first suspect tried for the execution-style shootings of three friends in a Newark schoolyard in 2007 was found guilty Monday on all counts against him. Rodolfo Godinez faced 17 murder, robbery and weapons charges. He was the first of six suspects to go to trial for the vicious slayings in the high-profile case. The trial was emotional as the prosecution displayed gruesome pictures of the victims.

A fourth victim who was sexually assaulted, and survived a machete attack and a gunshot wound to the head, also testified, becoming the star witness in the case.

Suspect Guilty On All Charges In Newark Slayings - wcbstv.com

Monsters. All of them. Even the 15 year old.

A 15 year old is not an adult. If you knew anything about human development, you'd be aware that a human brain is still developing even into the mid to late 20's. We wouldn't give a 15 tear old a drivers license or allow them to buy alcohol for a REASON.

He shouldn't be tried as an adult, and he shouldn't be executed.

The Nazis were never aware of their evil, they were highly self righteous ...just like YOU

You have the right to your opinion, as do I...you should NEVER, EVER be allowed around children.