Would blacks have been happy if Lincoln shipped them back?

Words are words. I care about actions. It’s like how after gay marriage was legalized with Obama’s support and more protections for gay people were enacted than by any other President, conservatives tried to say he was actually anti-gay because of something he said years and years ago. And how under Trump, conservatives say he supports gay people despite siding 100% of the time against them.
I don't disagree.

Lincoln's actions were to preserve the Union only...until the people grew weary of war and wanted to let the South go.

Nobody can say the war started because one side wanted to stop slavery and the other side wanted to continue it. The end of slavery was not even up for debate.

The WAR started because one side wanted to leave the Union, and the other side demanded that they remain. Slavery was the underlying issue, but not the ACTUAL reason for war.

So, Lincoln did not go to war to end slavery, and Lee did not go to war to defend it.

.
 
REALLY? It was his JOB to preserve the union. Do you think it would have been better for everyone if the South had won?
No. I am glad the South did not win.

Still, the question about whether a state's membership in the Union was voluntary was still up for debate. Lincoln, like all politicians, was motivated by power.
 
Words are words. I care about actions. It’s like how after gay marriage was legalized with Obama’s support and more protections for gay people were enacted than by any other President, conservatives tried to say he was actually anti-gay because of something he said years and years ago. And how under Trump, conservatives say he supports gay people despite siding 100% of the time against them.
I don't disagree.

Lincoln's actions were to preserve the Union only...until the people grew weary of war and wanted to let the South go.

Nobody can say the war started because one side wanted to stop slavery and the other side wanted to continue it. The end of slavery was not even up for debate.

The WAR started because one side wanted to leave the Union, and the other side demanded that they remain. Slavery was the underlying issue, but not the ACTUAL reason for war.

So, Lincoln did not go to war to end slavery, and Lee did not go to war to defend it.

.

Lee did go to war to defend slavery as that was part of confederate society. Lincoln didn't care either way just as long as he could preserve the union.
 
Words are words. I care about actions. It’s like how after gay marriage was legalized with Obama’s support and more protections for gay people were enacted than by any other President, conservatives tried to say he was actually anti-gay because of something he said years and years ago. And how under Trump, conservatives say he supports gay people despite siding 100% of the time against them.
I don't disagree.

Lincoln's actions were to preserve the Union only...until the people grew weary of war and wanted to let the South go.

Nobody can say the war started because one side wanted to stop slavery and the other side wanted to continue it. The end of slavery was not even up for debate.

The WAR started because one side wanted to leave the Union, and the other side demanded that they remain. Slavery was the underlying issue, but not the ACTUAL reason for war.

So, Lincoln did not go to war to end slavery, and Lee did not go to war to defend it.

.

Lee did go to war to defend slavery as that was part of confederate society. Lincoln didn't care either way just as long as he could preserve the union.
How could Lee have gone to war to preserve an institution that both sides agreed to continue?

I am not saying that slavery was not the underlying reason for secession. It clearly was. But, had the South not seceded, slavery would have continued and there would have been no war.

No secession = No war

That's all I am saying.

They were all a bunch of racist motherfuckers. Racism was institutional. White people considered themselves the superior race from the northern most tip of Maine, to the Florida Keys.

It is unfair to view Lee by today's standards and Lincoln by the standard of the time.

.
 
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Words are words. I care about actions. It’s like how after gay marriage was legalized with Obama’s support and more protections for gay people were enacted than by any other President, conservatives tried to say he was actually anti-gay because of something he said years and years ago. And how under Trump, conservatives say he supports gay people despite siding 100% of the time against them.
I don't disagree.

Lincoln's actions were to preserve the Union only...until the people grew weary of war and wanted to let the South go.

Nobody can say the war started because one side wanted to stop slavery and the other side wanted to continue it. The end of slavery was not even up for debate.

The WAR started because one side wanted to leave the Union, and the other side demanded that they remain. Slavery was the underlying issue, but not the ACTUAL reason for war.

So, Lincoln did not go to war to end slavery, and Lee did not go to war to defend it.

.

Lee did go to war to defend slavery as that was part of confederate society. Lincoln didn't care either way just as long as he could preserve the union.
How could Lee have gone to war to preserve an institution that both sides agreed to continue?

I am not saying that slavery was not the underlying reason for secession. It clearly was. But, had the South not seceded, slavery would have continued and there would have been no war.

No secession = No war

That's all I am saying.

They were all a bunch of racist motherfuckers. Racism was institutional. White people considered themselves the superior race from the northern most tip of Maine, to the Florida Keys.

It is unfair to view Lee by today's standards and Lincoln by the standard of the time.

.

I am viewing both by standards that always existed. Lincoln didn't give a damn whether we were slave or free. So one could reasonably conclude that Lincoln was fighting just as much for the preservation of slavery as Lee. But if you read the constitution of the constitution of the confederacy you understand why I say such things. We must remember the confederacy was a separate nation with it's own set of laws.

Article I Section 9(1)
The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country, other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.[14]

Article I Section 9(2)
Congress shall also have power to prohibit the introduction of slaves from any State not a member of, or Territory not belonging to, this Confederacy.

Article I Section 9(4)
No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed

Article IV Section 2(1)
The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

Article IV Section 3(3)
The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states.

Confederate States Constitution - Wikipedia
 
I am viewing both by standards that always existed. Lincoln didn't give a damn whether we were slave or free. So one could reasonably conclude that Lincoln was fighting just as much for the preservation of slavery as Lee.
That's fair.

I will leave it at that.

:beer:

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Words are words. I care about actions. It’s like how after gay marriage was legalized with Obama’s support and more protections for gay people were enacted than by any other President, conservatives tried to say he was actually anti-gay because of something he said years and years ago. And how under Trump, conservatives say he supports gay people despite siding 100% of the time against them.
I don't disagree.

Lincoln's actions were to preserve the Union only...until the people grew weary of war and wanted to let the South go.

Nobody can say the war started because one side wanted to stop slavery and the other side wanted to continue it. The end of slavery was not even up for debate.

The WAR started because one side wanted to leave the Union, and the other side demanded that they remain. Slavery was the underlying issue, but not the ACTUAL reason for war.

So, Lincoln did not go to war to end slavery, and Lee did not go to war to defend it.

.
Lee's intention was to just muddle through to victory with as few pell mell rushes as possible, and to free the slaves to die for their cause..??.
 

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