Worst fireseason in recorded history

[editec]

I'm sorry, I've never heard a scientist say they proved something doesn't exist. How did they do it? I'd be fascinated to know.

Contrary to the popular opinion, there is a way, you know.

All you have to do is carefully list everything that DOES exist, first

Spelling counts.

Have that list on my desk by Monday or it you lose one reputation point per day until you do.

 

[Wow]

These California fires are creating global warming.
California is killing the earth. We all are going to drown to death.

 

[BrianH]

So Brian - what's the place of "hypothesis" and "theory" in science. I'm not a scientist so I may not completely understand the concepts.

A hypothesis is an educated guess that has not been proven yet, while a theory is something that has also yet to be proven.

 

[BrianH]

Exactly Diuretic, there's not proof. So we should all assume that global warming is caused by humans, even if there's no proof? If was AGW alarmist that brought this about in the first place with absolutely no proof to back up their theory. They have bits of information that are still disputed by many...

The earth has heated and cooled many times before, without human help or interference. That is science and is fact...Due to this fact that the earth has heated and cooled many times before (at different rates), PROVES that this current heating trend may not be caused by humans. Until science can prove what caused heated and how fast things heated prior to human history and recorded science, then they have a hard battle in front of them.

 

[Chris]

Exactly Diuretic, there's not proof. So we should all assume that global warming is caused by humans, even if there's no proof? If was AGW alarmist that brought this about in the first place with absolutely no proof to back up their theory. They have bits of information that are still disputed by many...

The earth has heated and cooled many times before, without human help or interference. That is science and is fact...Due to this fact that the earth has heated and cooled many times before (at different rates), PROVES that this current heating trend may not be caused by humans. Until science can prove what caused heated and how fast things heated prior to human history and recorded science, then they have a hard battle in front of them.

CO2 causes the earth to warm. That is not a theory, that is a fact. The question is, How much does increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere by one third cause the earth to warm? Soon the question will be, How much does doubling the CO2 in the atmosphere cause the earth to warm?

 

[jreeves]

CO2 causes the earth to warm. That is not a theory, that is a fact. The question is, How much does increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere by one third cause the earth to warm? Soon the question will be, How much does doubling the CO2 in the atmosphere cause the earth to warm?

Yet with the concentrations of CO2 growing by 30% since 1880 scientist still proclaimed 'global cooling' as late as the 1970's...go figure...

 

[Diuretic]

Contrary to the popular opinion, there is a way, you know.

All you have to do is carefully list everything that DOES exist, first

Spelling counts.

Have that list on my desk by Monday or it you lose one reputation point per day until you do.

1. Aardvark...

Bugger it, the list is too long.

 

[Diuretic]

A hypothesis is an educated guess that has not been proven yet, while a theory is something that has also yet to be proven.

Right. My understanding of a hypothesis is that it's "if x then y". And the scientist tries to prove the hypothesis using the experimental method. But theory I thought was a bit different, I'm under the impression that a theory explains a phenomenon but that a theory can be overturned by showing that it fails to explain the phenomenon or there's another explanation for it. But, as I said, I'm not a scientist.

 

[Diuretic]

Exactly Diuretic, there's not proof. So we should all assume that global warming is caused by humans, even if there's no proof? If was AGW alarmist that brought this about in the first place with absolutely no proof to back up their theory. They have bits of information that are still disputed by many...

The earth has heated and cooled many times before, without human help or interference. That is science and is fact...Due to this fact that the earth has heated and cooled many times before (at different rates), PROVES that this current heating trend may not be caused by humans. Until science can prove what caused heated and how fast things heated prior to human history and recorded science, then they have a hard battle in front of them.

How long have humans been on the Earth? And how long has human industrialisation existed? For me those are two questions that are important for me as a non-scientist. Humans for many thousands of years had very minimal impact on the Earth. Then came the Industrial Revolution, I think about the early 18th Century. A couple of hundred years of industrialism must have had an effect on our environment.

But the consensus is there - aside from sceptics and denialists - the scientific community says that it has had an effect and that we need to start reducing that effect to keep the plant habitable for our descendants.

 

[BrianH]

How long have humans been on the Earth? And how long has human industrialisation existed? For me those are two questions that are important for me as a non-scientist. Humans for many thousands of years had very minimal impact on the Earth. Then came the Industrial Revolution, I think about the early 18th Century. A couple of hundred years of industrialism must have had an effect on our environment.

But the consensus is there - aside from sceptics and denialists - the scientific community says that it has had an effect and that we need to start reducing that effect to keep the plant habitable for our descendants.

Exactly, there was this period called the Ice Age the eventually MELTED without human help. There was also a period called the little ice age that peaked in the 1700s and then it too melted. The earth goes through phases of interglacial periods. Some worse than others. THis is my point...water vapor is a bigger greenhouse gas than CO2, so in the same breath, you could say that it is fact that an increase in water vapor heats the earth---more so than CO2. So in a reality, all you need is a couple of good hot years (brought on by the sun) to evaporate abnormal amounts of water and put it up into the atmosphere, then you have global warming.

Like I've said before, I think humans are contributing, but they are not causing it and CO2 does not have the exaggerated effect...

 

[BrianH]

Right. My understanding of a hypothesis is that it's "if x then y". And the scientist tries to prove the hypothesis using the experimental method. But theory I thought was a bit different, I'm under the impression that a theory explains a phenomenon but that a theory can be overturned by showing that it fails to explain the phenomenon or there's another explanation for it. But, as I said, I'm not a scientist.

That's right, therefore, AGW is a theory, there may be other explanations for it. The problem, is that some scientists have their hypothesis, and they experiment with that and have gotten a desired result. AGW does not explain why all of the other planets in our solar system are warming as well

 

[Chris]

That's right, therefore, AGW is a theory, there may be other explanations for it. The problem, is that some scientists have their hypothesis, and they experiment with that and have gotten a desired result. AGW does not explain why all of the other planets in our solar system are warming as well

CO2 warming the earth is not a theory. It is a fact. No one denies that CO2 warms the earth. The question is, How much will increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere by one third warm the earth?

 

[Charles_Main]

That's right, therefore, AGW is a theory, there may be other explanations for it. The problem, is that some scientists have their hypothesis, and they experiment with that and have gotten a desired result. AGW does not explain why all of the other planets in our solar system are warming as well

While I tend to agree with you most of the time, I would say that just because all the planets are warming, does not mean Humans are not speeding warming on Earth.

I personally have never said the earth is warming, or even that Humans are not adding to it, I just dispute the doom and gloom predictions, and question if i would be wise to make drastic and costly changes in an effort to change things we might not actually be able to change.

However reasonable steps to reduce emissions can't hurt. stressing the word Reasonable.

 

[Chris]

While I tend to agree with you most of the time, I would say that just because all the planets are warming, does not mean Humans are not speeding warming on Earth.

I personally have never said the earth is warming, or even that Humans are not adding to it, I just dispute the doom and gloom predictions, and question if i would be wise to make drastic and costly changes in an effort to change things we might not actually be able to change.

However reasonable steps to reduce emissions can't hurt. stressing the word Reasonable.

We can move to renewable energy without any disruption to our economy. Solar power, wind power, and algae based ethanol are available right now. We need to overcome the corporate lobbyists in Washington, and that will be the most difficult task of all.

 

[AllieBaba]

Gosh I wish people would quit talking about this stupid topic.

There's no proof that man causes global warming. You'd think that would be the end of the debate. There's no proof that there are huge reservoirs of CO2, lurking in oceans and other places waiting to decimate us. That's all pie in the sky theory that has been debunked. There's no proof that anything we're doing is going to have any overall negative effect on the world.

And finally, every single year since they started regulating logging there has been the announcement "WORST FIRE SEASON EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MAN!"

Ho hum. Find something real to think about. Like why are the fires getting worse if we're setting aside all this land for future generations to "enjoy"? Yeah, they're really going to enjoy looking at all that scrub that grows every time a huge fire sweeps through and feeds on the slash the idiotic environmentalists won't let anyone touch.

 

[Charles_Main]

We can move to renewable energy without any disruption to our economy. Solar power, wind power, and algae based ethanol are available right now. We need to overcome the corporate lobbyists in Washington, and that will be the most difficult task of all.

And that point I agree. However those 3 things will not alone replace Oil. There is a lot more than Gas that is made from Oil you know.

However on the point that the hardest part is overcoming lobbyists I could not agree more.

 

[Charles_Main]

Gosh I wish people would quit talking about this stupid topic.

There's no proof that man causes global warming.

There is abundant proof we are adding to it however. Reasonable steps to lower our Emissions can't hurt if you ask me. As long as we do not go over board. Balance is what we need.

 

[AllieBaba]

The only way we could quit adding to it would be to eliminate ourselves. And there's no evidence that doing that would in any way affect global warming.

 

[BrianH]

CO2 warming the earth is not a theory. It is a fact. No one denies that CO2 warms the earth. The question is, How much will increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere by one third warm the earth?

Notice how you've conveniently ignored the fact that I said that AGW (Anthropological Global Warming) is a theory---not the fact that CO2 "assists" with warming the earth. You consistently ignore facts that WATER VAPOR is more of a green-house gas than CO2. You're correct, we do pump alot of CO2 into the atmospher---BUT, just because the globe happens to be warming (which it hasn't the last couple of years) at the same time, doesn't means it's the cause. Guess what, the sun was/is shining at the same time the earth was warming...what's up with that? CO2 assists, but it does not cause, and Al Gore's carbon credit masterpiece is a money making scam run on a fear tactic. Continue to Jape on these threads, you're arguing that humans are causing global warming---which hasn't been PROVEN by scientists.

 

[BrianH]

While I tend to agree with you most of the time, I would say that just because all the planets are warming, does not mean Humans are not speeding warming on Earth.

I personally have never said the earth is warming, or even that Humans are not adding to it, I just dispute the doom and gloom predictions, and question if i would be wise to make drastic and costly changes in an effort to change things we might not actually be able to change.

However reasonable steps to reduce emissions can't hurt. stressing the word Reasonable.

I can agree to that. With Kirk it's either all or nothing. You accept his possible truth and we're all destroying the earth....otherwise, he'll continue to argue with you.

LIke I said, I believe humans are contributing. We're putting things into the atmosphere that we have to technology to avoid. And it's common sense that the stuff we put into the atmospher maybe isn't the best thing to be putting there. And it's commons sense that if the earth is warming, the things we put into the atmosphere certainly don't help...however. CO2 is a natural part of the atmosphere. Plants use it to breath, without it, plant-life would die.

What I don't agree with, is this AGW hysteria put forth by kirk and his cronies that we alone are destroying the earth. The earth killed entire species of animals during the ice age, on it's own without human help. If nature is going to take it's course, then it will regardless of human help. My thing, is that humans sit back and pretend like they KNOW every possible thing that could happen in nature...when in reality they don't. What if there is some sort of rapid climatic change that happens on other planets that scientists are unaware of. There could be scientific laws in regards to weather and climate that scientists are still unaware of. IMO, there are still too many unkowns in the scientific field to attribute the climatic change on a planet to humans.

My position, is that CO2 may assist global warming (but is not the "gloom and doom" greenhouse gas that everyone fears)....

And that water-vapor and the Sun have more to do with GW than humans. I can agree with you on your post though. I believe that we are contributing, but I don't think we're causing it, and I don't believe the gloom and doom part of it.