World War One Through Arab Eyes

[Challenger]

Interesting, but wrong war and nothing to do with an Arab perspective on WW1. Anyway back to the OP.

What I found interesting from the first episode was the fact that the 19th Division commanded by Mustafa Kemal was apparently 2/3 composed of Arab conscripts; ironic that the Ottoman Turkish victory owed so much to the heroic sacrifice of Arab troops while elsewhere other Arabs were preparing to rebel against the same Empire. Another interesting snippet that came out of the documentary was the generally poor treatment the French gave to their Colonial troops with many units experiencing the punishment of decimation for "cowardice" including a Tunisian Jewish Battalion. When you contrast this with the conduct of Jewish troops fighting for the British (Zion Mule Corps) of whom it was said, "Many of the Zionists whom I thought somewhat lacking in courage showed themselves fearless to a degree when under heavy fire, while Captain Trumpeldor actually revelled in it, and the hotter it became the more he liked it..." it's perhaps no wonder that the French were more unpopular than the British in the Levant and North Africa.

 

[georgephillip]

From Wiki:
"The Middle Eastern theatre of World War I saw action between 29 October 1914 and 30 October 1918. The combatants were on the one hand, the Ottoman Empire (including Kurds, Persians and some Arab tribes), with some assistance from the other Central Powers, and on the other hand, the British (with the help of the Jews and the majority of the Arabs), the Russians (with the aid of the Armenians and some Assyrian tribes) and the French from the Allies of World War I. There were five main campaigns..."
Middle Eastern theatre of World War I - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Militarism and colonialism helped launch the War to End All Wars, and both Zionist and Arab nationalists in Palestine saw the potential of breaking free from the Ottoman grasp. Although Jews comprised only 12% of Palestine's population, they understood the future of Palestine would be less determined by the inhabitants of the Middle East than by Great Power rivalries. British control of the Suez Canal, for example, factored heavily into the creation of a Jewish Homeland between the River and the sea.
Palestine During World War I Jewish Virtual Library

 

[Challenger]

Interesting snippets from the second episode include the fact that although we see the slaughter on the Western Front as a terrible waste of life, it paled into insignificance compared to the fact that around 25% of the population of the Ottoman Empire died in WW1 from war related issues, starvation because the Ottoman Army sequestrated people for labour, crops and animals wherever they went, preventing the locals from farming and diseases such as Typhus,brought from India by the British Indian Army, that swept through Mesopotamia and the Levant. Tragic times indeed.

 

[Challenger]

From Wiki:
"The Middle Eastern theatre of World War I saw action between 29 October 1914 and 30 October 1918. The combatants were on the one hand, the Ottoman Empire (including Kurds, Persians and some Arab tribes), with some assistance from the other Central Powers, and on the other hand, the British (with the help of the Jews and the majority of the Arabs), the Russians (with the aid of the Armenians and some Assyrian tribes) and the French from the Allies of World War I. There were five main campaigns..."
Middle Eastern theatre of World War I - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Militarism and colonialism helped launch the War to End All Wars, and both Zionist and Arab nationalists in Palestine saw the potential of breaking free from the Ottoman grasp. Although Jews comprised only 12% of Palestine's population, they understood the future of Palestine would be less determined by the inhabitants of the Middle East than by Great Power rivalries. British control of the Suez Canal, for example, factored heavily into the creation of a Jewish Homeland between the River and the sea.
Palestine During World War I Jewish Virtual Library

I also discovered in episode 2 that David ben-Gurion was fanatically pro-Ottoman, raising Jewish volunteers to fight for the Empire against the allies. He even went on a fund raising/propaganda tour of America to promote the Ottoman Empire. then when he saw the way the wind was blowig, he rapidly and suddenly changed sides, joining the British Army; a man of principle, if ever there was one.

 

[georgephillip]

I also discovered in episode 2 that David ben-Gurion was fanatically pro-Ottoman, raising Jewish volunteers to fight for the Empire against the allies. He even went on a fund raising/propaganda tour of America to promote the Ottoman Empire. then when he saw the way the wind was blowig, he rapidly and suddenly changed sides, joining the British Army; a man of principle, if ever there was one

Maybe a Founding Father can't afford principles?
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
The Middle East Conflict Zionist Quotes

 

[Challenger]

I also discovered in episode 2 that David ben-Gurion was fanatically pro-Ottoman, raising Jewish volunteers to fight for the Empire against the allies. He even went on a fund raising/propaganda tour of America to promote the Ottoman Empire. then when he saw the way the wind was blowig, he rapidly and suddenly changed sides, joining the British Army; a man of principle, if ever there was one

Maybe a Founding Father can't afford principles?
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
The Middle East Conflict Zionist Quotes

Interesting site, thanks for the link.

 

[Sally]

From Wiki:
"The Middle Eastern theatre of World War I saw action between 29 October 1914 and 30 October 1918. The combatants were on the one hand, the Ottoman Empire (including Kurds, Persians and some Arab tribes), with some assistance from the other Central Powers, and on the other hand, the British (with the help of the Jews and the majority of the Arabs), the Russians (with the aid of the Armenians and some Assyrian tribes) and the French from the Allies of World War I. There were five main campaigns..."
Middle Eastern theatre of World War I - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Militarism and colonialism helped launch the War to End All Wars, and both Zionist and Arab nationalists in Palestine saw the potential of breaking free from the Ottoman grasp. Although Jews comprised only 12% of Palestine's population, they understood the future of Palestine would be less determined by the inhabitants of the Middle East than by Great Power rivalries. British control of the Suez Canal, for example, factored heavily into the creation of a Jewish Homeland between the River and the sea.
Palestine During World War I Jewish Virtual Library

I also discovered in episode 2 that David ben-Gurion was fanatically pro-Ottoman, raising Jewish volunteers to fight for the Empire against the allies. He even went on a fund raising/propaganda tour of America to promote the Ottoman Empire. then when he saw the way the wind was blowig, he rapidly and suddenly changed sides, joining the British Army; a man of principle, if ever there was one.

From Wiki:
"The Middle Eastern theatre of World War I saw action between 29 October 1914 and 30 October 1918. The combatants were on the one hand, the Ottoman Empire (including Kurds, Persians and some Arab tribes), with some assistance from the other Central Powers, and on the other hand, the British (with the help of the Jews and the majority of the Arabs), the Russians (with the aid of the Armenians and some Assyrian tribes) and the French from the Allies of World War I. There were five main campaigns..."
Middle Eastern theatre of World War I - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Militarism and colonialism helped launch the War to End All Wars, and both Zionist and Arab nationalists in Palestine saw the potential of breaking free from the Ottoman grasp. Although Jews comprised only 12% of Palestine's population, they understood the future of Palestine would be less determined by the inhabitants of the Middle East than by Great Power rivalries. British control of the Suez Canal, for example, factored heavily into the creation of a Jewish Homeland between the River and the sea.
Palestine During World War I Jewish Virtual Library

I also discovered in episode 2 that David ben-Gurion was fanatically pro-Ottoman, raising Jewish volunteers to fight for the Empire against the allies. He even went on a fund raising/propaganda tour of America to promote the Ottoman Empire. then when he saw the way the wind was blowig, he rapidly and suddenly changed sides, joining the British Army; a man of principle, if ever there was one.

You can be interested in World War I from the Arab perspective as shown by a Qatar-based government- owned media. However, we all know that in both World War I and II, there were plenty of people on both sides of the conflict who came from different groups. In fact, many of your English people happened to be pro Nazi which is not surprising. Meanwhile, how about you contact Al Jazeera to see if they would like to make a documentary about the Mufti's SS troops in Europe. I think many of us would be interested in that aspect since World War II happened later on, and it would be interesting to learn about the Arab view of Muslim troops fighting with Hitler in World War II. However, if Al Jazeera doesn't find that feasible, could you convince them to do a documentary about why Muslim converts in England (and elsewhere) are sneaking off to join ISIS?

Siddhartha Dhar claims he can t love my mum because she s not Muslim Daily Mail Online

 

[georgephillip]

"The negotiations for a Jewish entity were carried out by Weizmann, who greatly impressed Balfour and maintained important links with the British media.

"In support of the Zionist cause, his protracted and skillful negotiations with the Foreign Office were climaxed on November 2, 1917, by the letter from the foreign secretary to Lord Rothschild, which became known as the Balfour Declaration.

"This document declared the British government's 'sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations,' viewed with favor 'the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish People,' and announced an intent to facilitate the achievement of this objective.

"The letter added the provision of 'it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.'"

Palestine During World War I Jewish Virtual Library

 

[Sally]

I also discovered in episode 2 that David ben-Gurion was fanatically pro-Ottoman, raising Jewish volunteers to fight for the Empire against the allies. He even went on a fund raising/propaganda tour of America to promote the Ottoman Empire. then when he saw the way the wind was blowig, he rapidly and suddenly changed sides, joining the British Army; a man of principle, if ever there was one

Maybe a Founding Father can't afford principles?
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
The Middle East Conflict Zionist Quotes

These "Zionist Quotes" remind me of the fake Talmud quotes you find on the hate sites and which many Jew haters have brought up over the years (even from some Muslim woman who came from a state in southern India. She must have learned the Talmud in her madrassa). I have no idea which of these quotes might be true, but one time a poster who was visiting Israel went to the offices of Haaretz and asked them if they actually published something about the quote reportedly said by Dayan. They searched and searched in their Archives, and found that they never had published anything like that.

 

[georgephillip]

I also discovered in episode 2 that David ben-Gurion was fanatically pro-Ottoman, raising Jewish volunteers to fight for the Empire against the allies. He even went on a fund raising/propaganda tour of America to promote the Ottoman Empire. then when he saw the way the wind was blowig, he rapidly and suddenly changed sides, joining the British Army; a man of principle, if ever there was one

Maybe a Founding Father can't afford principles?
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
The Middle East Conflict Zionist Quotes

These "Zionist Quotes" remind me of the fake Talmud quotes you find on the hate sites and which many Jew haters have brought up over the years (even from some Muslim woman who came from a state in southern India. She must have learned the Talmud in her madrassa). I have no idea which of these quotes might be true, but one time a poster who was visiting Israel went to the offices of Haaretz and asked them if they actually published something about the quote reportedly said by Dayan. They searched and searched in their Archives, and found that they never had published anything like that.

Did they find one of these?

 

[Sally]

I also discovered in episode 2 that David ben-Gurion was fanatically pro-Ottoman, raising Jewish volunteers to fight for the Empire against the allies. He even went on a fund raising/propaganda tour of America to promote the Ottoman Empire. then when he saw the way the wind was blowig, he rapidly and suddenly changed sides, joining the British Army; a man of principle, if ever there was one

Maybe a Founding Father can't afford principles?
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
The Middle East Conflict Zionist Quotes

These "Zionist Quotes" remind me of the fake Talmud quotes you find on the hate sites and which many Jew haters have brought up over the years (even from some Muslim woman who came from a state in southern India. She must have learned the Talmud in her madrassa). I have no idea which of these quotes might be true, but one time a poster who was visiting Israel went to the offices of Haaretz and asked them if they actually published something about the quote reportedly said by Dayan. They searched and searched in their Archives, and found that they never had published anything like that.

Did they find one of these?

No, but they did find out that you are disappointed that you were born too date to hook up with the Nazis and work as a guard in a concentration camp.

 

[Challenger]

Having watched the third episode, which brings the story up to the end of WW1 and includes the Feisal MacMahon correspondence, the Sykes-Picot arrangement and the infamous Balfour declaration, it has been fascinating seeing the Arab take on this topic. There are one or two points I have to take issue with where the presenter/commentator makes inaccurate statements such as Chaim Weitzmann drafting the declaration for Balfour to rubber stamp.

Anyone who has studied the background will know that Weitzmann wasn't even in the country when the Zionist committee drafted their document (he was heading off an American fact finding mission led by Henry Morgenthau which threatened the whole Zionist project), which was subsequently rejected by the British government. Eventually the Zionist Harry Sacher wrote a 2 sentence note which was accepted and subsequently rewritten in almost its entirety by the British Cabinet, while the Anti-Zionist members of the Jewish Conjoint Committee did everything they could to scupper the whole idea and Anti-Zionists like Lord Curzon and the Jewish peer Lord Montague, raised objection after objection. In fact it wasn't until Louis Brandeis in America mobilized American Zionists to put pressure on President Wilson to come out in support of the Zionist project, that the Anti-Zionists were defeated. Anyone interested in the background intrigues and manouvres regarding the Balfour Declaration should read the book by Jonathan Schneer The Balfour Declaration The Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict Amazon.co.uk Jonathan Schneer 9781408809709 Books

 

[Sally]

Having watched the third episode, which brings the story up to the end of WW1 and includes the Feisal MacMahon correspondence, the Sykes-Picot arrangement and the infamous Balfour declaration, it has been fascinating seeing the Arab take on this topic. There are one or two points I have to take issue with where the presenter/commentator makes inaccurate statements such as Chaim Weitzmann drafting the declaration for Balfour to rubber stamp.

Anyone who has studied the background will know that Weitzmann wasn't even in the country when the Zionist committee drafted their document (he was heading off an American fact finding mission led by Henry Morgenthau which threatened the whole Zionist project), which was subsequently rejected by the British government. Eventually the Zionist Harry Sacher wrote a 2 sentence note which was accepted and subsequently rewritten in almost its entirety by the British Cabinet, while the Anti-Zionist members of the Jewish Conjoint Committee did everything they could to scupper the whole idea and Anti-Zionists like Lord Curzon and the Jewish peer Lord Montague, raised objection after objection. In fact it wasn't until Louis Brandeis in America mobilized American Zionists to put pressure on President Wilson to come out in support of the Zionist project, that the Anti-Zionists were defeated. Anyone interested in the background intrigues and manouvres regarding the Balfour Declaration should read the book by Jonathan Schneer The Balfour Declaration The Origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict Amazon.co.uk Jonathan Schneer 9781408809709 Books

Since World War I is approximately 100 years old, shouldn't this be discussed on the History forum? After all, especially in the West, World War I is taught in history classes, not in some class on current events. Meanwhile, it would be nice if Al Jazeera did a documentary on the genocide of the Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks which happened around the same time period. It would be interesting to see their Muslim slant on this.

Meanwhile, no doubt this episode in the series is the one which interested the anti-Semites the most and what they were hoping would be discussed. So much has gone on in the Middle East in the years between World War I and now, and the anti-Semites are only interested in how they can drag in Israel while at the same time their new friends, the Muslim Arabs, have murdered many in the rest of the Middle East. Has anyone seen Mr. Twitching Whiskers bring up any articles about what is happening in the rest of the Middle East where innocent people's blood is running in the roads? One would think that since he crawled over to the Middle East forum, he could act as if he really cared about what is happening to innocent Arabs, both Muslims and Christians.

 

[irosie91]

good idea sally------for those who do not know-----while islamo Nazi propagandaists deny much of the brutality they inflicted
on greeks and Armenians in the early 20th century----they also
come up with sophist justifications. -----"well....it was really them---they "rebelled". This justification is nothing new----in
fact it is "holy"-----muhummad used it to justify his reign of terror
in Arabia that galvanized the comprehensive genocide of
Zoroastrians Sabeans, Christians and jews -----COMPLTELY
in Arabia In fact the Armenians and Greeks DID "rebel"
in a manner of speaking------they objected to the
imposition of shariah filth----just as had the jews of Yathrib
(later renamed MEDINA) which led to their complete
annihilation in Arabia. Historically----the rebellions against
the vile stench of shariah can be construed as slave revolts----something like SPARTACUS and the several dozen
slave uprisings of the 18th and 19th century USA. Both
Spartacus and the various Islamic genocides of
rebelling dhimmis were actually a lot more bloody than
anything that took place in the USA

 

[Challenger]

Since World War I is approximately 100 years old, shouldn't this be discussed on the History forum?

Perhaps, but we are commemorating the centennial of the start of the First World War in both Europe and America; President Obama visited WW1 battlefields in Flanders recently so I think it qualifies as a current event. Pointing out that the war was not just restricted to Europe and presenting a different perspective from that found in European and American discourse may be interesting to some on this board. Perhaps more so, than some obscure events in 17th century Bulgaria, which no longer have any bearing in the modern world. WW1 shaped the Middle East, and decisions made during and after this conflict have a direct bearing on the mess we are in now. that's what makes programmes like this relevant; those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

 

[Sally]

Since World War I is approximately 100 years old, shouldn't this be discussed on the History forum?

Perhaps, but we are commemorating the centennial of the start of the First World War in both Europe and America; President Obama visited WW1 battlefields in Flanders recently so I think it qualifies as a current event. Pointing out that the war was not just restricted to Europe and presenting a different perspective from that found in European and American discourse may be interesting to some on this board. Perhaps more so, than some obscure events in 17th century Bulgaria, which no longer have any bearing in the modern world. WW1 shaped the Middle East, and decisions made during and after this conflict have a direct bearing on the mess we are in now. that's what makes programmes like this relevant; those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

I am sure the Armenians are remembering that it is 100 years since the Genocide, but I doubt Al Jazeera will be bothered to do anything about that. Meanwhile, how about you have Al Jazeera make up a documentary about this which happens in your own country??? And for really current events, how about Al Jazeera make a documentary about how the Christians are being persecuted in the Muslim world? Surely, even you must be aware of it.

Poppy-burning Muslims plan new hell for heroes demonstration on November 11 Daily Mail Online

 

[Challenger]

Since World War I is approximately 100 years old, shouldn't this be discussed on the History forum?

Perhaps, but we are commemorating the centennial of the start of the First World War in both Europe and America; President Obama visited WW1 battlefields in Flanders recently so I think it qualifies as a current event. Pointing out that the war was not just restricted to Europe and presenting a different perspective from that found in European and American discourse may be interesting to some on this board. Perhaps more so, than some obscure events in 17th century Bulgaria, which no longer have any bearing in the modern world. WW1 shaped the Middle East, and decisions made during and after this conflict have a direct bearing on the mess we are in now. that's what makes programmes like this relevant; those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

I am sure the Armenians are remembering that it is 100 years since the Genocide, but I doubt Al Jazeera will be bothered to do anything about that...

Well, as the Armenian Massacres started in 1915, maybe Al-Jazeera will run something next year. Why not contact them to suggest the topic? They made a programme on the topic in 2009 The Armenian question - Riz Khan - Al Jazeera English and often publish articles on the subject:

Armenian genocide Turkey has lost the battle of truth - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
The US Senate and the Armenian genocide - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
Healing wounds Seeking closure for the 1915 massacres - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
Turkey calls on France to halt genocide bill - Europe - Al Jazeera English
Obama avoids calling Armenia deaths genocide - Europe - Al Jazeera English

so I don't see your problem.

 

[Challenger]

Meanwhile, how about you have Al Jazeera make up a documentary about this which happens in your own country??? And for really current events, how about Al Jazeera make a documentary about how the Christians are being persecuted in the Muslim world? Surely, even you must be aware of it.

Poppy-burning Muslims plan new hell for heroes demonstration on November 11 Daily Mail Online

Fine, post a thread about it in Europe forum, this thread is about the impact of WW1 on the modern Middle East.

 

[Phoenall]

ROFLMAO------the "arab perspective"-----well---not really---it is the MUSLIM PERSPECTIVE----the end of that "noble" lump of shit-----the OTTOMAN CALIPHATE -----bloody genocidal pigs ----lost control and not the pigs and dogs are killing tens of thousands per week in order to RESTORE THE STENCH

Wow, someone needs to take their medication again. irosie91 seems to be posting in the same style as Phoney, either they're both on the same meds or....

So much for being a humanist then, I know Humanists and you are as far removed as a mini is from a F1 car

 

[Phoenall]

For those interested, episode 1 is now available on you tube

Al Jazeera is not a site a humanist would link too, caught out in another LIE