World War II was the last Real war and the draft should be brought back

[ginscpy]

Imo

 

[Colin]

ALL wars are real, dummy! Just ask those who fought in them!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The draft is not needed and in fact would be counter productive.

The all volunteer force is meeting their recruitment and retention goals. An enlistment now is 8 years. 6 active and 2 reserve as needs allow. It takes a full year to train someone in even the most basic of MOS's in the military. A draftee would spend a year being trained as a grunt and then not even have enough time left to be deployed anywhere. Draftees generally do NOT want to be in the military, bringing unit morale DOWN. Volunteers do not want to serve with draftees that are just marking days till they can unass the area.

Further the Government pays a hell of a lot more to even the newest recruit then they did even in the 70's after the draft ended. You want the budget for the military to sky rocket? After all to start the draft we would need to increase the size of the military to accommodate what ever idiotic number of draftees you think should serve in a useless position. All for no reason.

Or are you suggesting the Government should draftee people against their will for 4 years?

 

[editec]

If you happened to be a young man during the Viet Nam Era, and you were one of those who were facing the draft, you'd realize just how unfairly that draft was implemented.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of a UNIVERSL DRAFT expect for the fact that I know god-damned well, that it would NOT be universal.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If you happened to be a young man during the Viet Nam Era, and you were one of those who were facing the draft, you'd realize just how unfairly that draft was implemented.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of a UNIVERSL DRAFT expect for the fact that I know god-damned well, that it would NOT be universal.

It is NOT needed. The military is better off with an all volunteer force. I do believe that States should return to the militia though. Every able bodied man and woman 18 to 40 should be required to serve 2 days a month in the State Militia. ANd subject to call up by the laws of the State in regards how the militia is used.

These militias would NOT be Federal. The Federal Government has the National Guard which is that part of a State militia that is federalized.

 

[editec]

If you happened to be a young man during the Viet Nam Era, and you were one of those who were facing the draft, you'd realize just how unfairly that draft was implemented.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of a UNIVERSL DRAFT expect for the fact that I know god-damned well, that it would NOT be universal.

It is NOT needed. The military is better off with an all volunteer force. I do believe that States should return to the militia though. Every able bodied man and woman 18 to 40 should be required to serve 2 days a month in the State Militia. ANd subject to call up by the laws of the State in regards how the militia is used.

These militias would NOT be Federal. The Federal Government has the National Guard which is that part of a State militia that is federalized.

I agree that at this time the draft is not needed.

For that matter 50% of the current military is not needed.

Our military might ought to have something to do with our economic might.

Right now those two things are wildly out of kilter.

 

[High_Gravity]

Listen motherfucker, you keep posting the same thing over and over, that WW2 was the last real war and that the draft needs to be brought back. You are a motherfucking coward because you skipped out in Vietnam and you are calling for a draft now because you know you are too old to be called on for it, people who call on a draft when they know they are not eligible are pieces of shit who need to open their mouth so I can take a hot steaming piss in it.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The draft is not needed and in fact would be counter productive.

The all volunteer force is meeting their recruitment and retention goals. An enlistment now is 8 years. 6 active and 2 reserve as needs allow. It takes a full year to train someone in even the most basic of MOS's in the military. A draftee would spend a year being trained as a grunt and then not even have enough time left to be deployed anywhere. Draftees generally do NOT want to be in the military, bringing unit morale DOWN. Volunteers do not want to serve with draftees that are just marking days till they can unass the area.

Further the Government pays a hell of a lot more to even the newest recruit then they did even in the 70's after the draft ended. You want the budget for the military to sky rocket? After all to start the draft we would need to increase the size of the military to accommodate what ever idiotic number of draftees you think should serve in a useless position. All for no reason.

Or are you suggesting the Government should draftee people against their will for 4 years?

You know RGS, I kinda think that Israel has it right. Everyone who is 18, after they graduate high school, go straight to the military for 2 years. That would be enough time to train 'em up, and get ready for deployment. If they decide they like it? THEN they can re-enlist and deploy.

A side benefit is that it gives them 2 years of discipline and teamwork, so even if they do decide to get out, they're better citizens because of it.

 

[High_Gravity]

The draft is not needed and in fact would be counter productive.

The all volunteer force is meeting their recruitment and retention goals. An enlistment now is 8 years. 6 active and 2 reserve as needs allow. It takes a full year to train someone in even the most basic of MOS's in the military. A draftee would spend a year being trained as a grunt and then not even have enough time left to be deployed anywhere. Draftees generally do NOT want to be in the military, bringing unit morale DOWN. Volunteers do not want to serve with draftees that are just marking days till they can unass the area.

Further the Government pays a hell of a lot more to even the newest recruit then they did even in the 70's after the draft ended. You want the budget for the military to sky rocket? After all to start the draft we would need to increase the size of the military to accommodate what ever idiotic number of draftees you think should serve in a useless position. All for no reason.

Or are you suggesting the Government should draftee people against their will for 4 years?

You know RGS, I kinda think that Israel has it right. Everyone who is 18, after they graduate high school, go straight to the military for 2 years. That would be enough time to train 'em up, and get ready for deployment. If they decide they like it? THEN they can re-enlist and deploy.

A side benefit is that it gives them 2 years of discipline and teamwork, so even if they do decide to get out, they're better citizens because of it.

Israel has to do that because it is a small country and they are surrounded by hostile forces, they have to have all men Military trained for their survival. While I do think it is good that everyone serves their country I don't think it should be mandatory, not everyone is cut out for Military service.

 

[Warrior102]

If you happened to be a young man during the Viet Nam Era, and you were one of those who were facing the draft, you'd realize just how unfairly that draft was implemented.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of a UNIVERSL DRAFT expect for the fact that I know god-damned well, that it would NOT be universal.

Most who served in Vietnam were NOT drafted.
Another Liberal lie.
2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers.
2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. (Westmoreland papers)
Approximately 70% of those killed were volunteers.(McCaffrey Papers)

 

[ABikerSailor]

If you happened to be a young man during the Viet Nam Era, and you were one of those who were facing the draft, you'd realize just how unfairly that draft was implemented.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of a UNIVERSL DRAFT expect for the fact that I know god-damned well, that it would NOT be universal.

Most who served in Vietnam were NOT drafted.
Another Liberal lie.
2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers.
2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. (Westmoreland papers)
Approximately 70% of those killed were volunteers.(McCaffrey Papers)

And...........don't forget...........the US Navy has been an all volunteer force since it's inception.

 

[daveman]

Imo

You opinion is wrong, on both counts.

 

[rightwinger]

Why would anyone want to glamorize WWII?

30 million people were killed, thankfully, we have learned not to fight wars like that again

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Why would anyone want to glamorize WWII?

30 million people were killed, thankfully, we have learned not to fight wars like that again

closer to 50 million. Hell the Soviets lost 20 to 30 million alone. And starting in 31 the Chinese lost a hell of a lot too.

And it is not that we have figured out how to avoid all out war on a global scale. It is that we kept a standing army together and with mutually assured destruction neither of the major Powers or their allies wanted the consequences of Nuclear war.

The US finally learned its lesson in Korea. Draw down to much and some pissant Country with a big backer can really hurt you. That is more true today then even Korea.

 

[rightwinger]

If you happened to be a young man during the Viet Nam Era, and you were one of those who were facing the draft, you'd realize just how unfairly that draft was implemented.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of a UNIVERSL DRAFT expect for the fact that I know god-damned well, that it would NOT be universal.

Most who served in Vietnam were NOT drafted.
Another Liberal lie.
2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers.
2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. (Westmoreland papers)
Approximately 70% of those killed were volunteers.(McCaffrey Papers)

Many of the "volunteers" in Viet Nam did so because they were facing the draft and wanted to choose their service or MOS

 

[The Gadfly]

Imo

I tell you what; after you have been in just ONE firefight, I might care what just what you think a "real" war is. As it is, you are talking out of the same orifice you pass gas through, with about as much intelligent effect.

As far as a draft is concerned, there are a couple of points to consider. First of all, the modern hi-tech battlespace requires something more than a dumb grunt. it requires a smarter, better-trained, and more technically proficient soldier, (even as a basic infantryman). Second, the days of massed, relatively low-tech forces are over; Desert Storm brought that point home rather forcefully; the technology has matured to the point where large force concentrations are little more than nice, juicy targets. There is no need now, to mass mobilize millions of troops. While that does not mean we can get by with as small a military as some people would like (because too small a force, no matter how high the quality, is easily overstressed by too-frequent deployments, which actually degrades the quality advantage we expect to have), it's less of a numbers game than formerly was the case. That is just as well, because it helps hold down casualties, and because frankly, conscription tends to put too many people in the military who are ill-suited to it. This does not merely impact the quality of conscript troops, it also brings in some enlistees, and even officers, who may be marginal to outright dysfunctional. Case in point, from Vietnam, Lt. Calley, a marginal candidate for OCS who took that option rather than be drafted, turned into a marginal officer, and was given command of an infantry platoon, with disastrous results we are all too familiar with. There were a lot more like him, (I saw more than a couple in Vietnam), and while they fortunately did not do what he did, they did manage to get too many of their own personnel killed unnecessarily. That sort of thing s not impossible in a completely professional force, but it is a lot less common. Another unhappy consequence was the creation of a sort of two-tier force; with some conscripts being both somewhat less trained and less suited to the military, some professional personnel considered any and all of them just about useless; the animosity that gave rise to on both sides created real problems in any command that failed to vigorously address it. This was doubly unfortunate, because in my experience, many conscripts fought as well and bravely as they possibly could, and deserved a lot better leadership than they got from some "lifers". At best, this was bad for overall morale; at worst, it amounted to criminal neglect by personnel who should have known (and done) better.

 

[whitehall]

Actually WW2 was the last war declared by congress. Korea was a "conventional" war with battle lines but the president never received permission from congress much less a declaration of war. We know how screwed up LBJ's war was.

 

[oldsalt]

If you happened to be a young man during the Viet Nam Era, and you were one of those who were facing the draft, you'd realize just how unfairly that draft was implemented.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of a UNIVERSL DRAFT expect for the fact that I know god-damned well, that it would NOT be universal.

It is NOT needed. The military is better off with an all volunteer force. I do believe that States should return to the militia though. Every able bodied man and woman 18 to 40 should be required to serve 2 days a month in the State Militia. ANd subject to call up by the laws of the State in regards how the militia is used.

These militias would NOT be Federal. The Federal Government has the National Guard which is that part of a State militia that is federalized.

Since it's your idea, what would you perceive, or hope to see, these militias be used for?

 

[The Gadfly]

If you happened to be a young man during the Viet Nam Era, and you were one of those who were facing the draft, you'd realize just how unfairly that draft was implemented.

I'm sympathetic to the concept of a UNIVERSL DRAFT expect for the fact that I know god-damned well, that it would NOT be universal.

It is NOT needed. The military is better off with an all volunteer force. I do believe that States should return to the militia though. Every able bodied man and woman 18 to 40 should be required to serve 2 days a month in the State Militia. ANd subject to call up by the laws of the State in regards how the militia is used.

These militias would NOT be Federal. The Federal Government has the National Guard which is that part of a State militia that is federalized.

Since it's your idea, what would you perceive, or hope to see, these militias be used for?

I'll jump in and take that one, OS. With the National Guard stretched increasingly thin by deployments with the regular force units they are assigned to fill out, more and more that leaves the states without personnel to do the non-combat functions the peacetime National Guard used to do when called to state duty; things like disaster relief operations (including maintaining security in disaster areas), evacuations, sandbagging levees, and so on. A militarily organized state guard or militia could fill that role (possibly with coordinated assistance from those National Guard units that might be available). That would take the pressure off the Guard's federal functions, and give its members some public service duties few should find objectionable. Think of it as an alternative form of national service.

 

[oldsalt]

It is NOT needed. The military is better off with an all volunteer force. I do believe that States should return to the militia though. Every able bodied man and woman 18 to 40 should be required to serve 2 days a month in the State Militia. ANd subject to call up by the laws of the State in regards how the militia is used.

These militias would NOT be Federal. The Federal Government has the National Guard which is that part of a State militia that is federalized.

Since it's your idea, what would you perceive, or hope to see, these militias be used for?

I'll jump in and take that one, OS. With the National Guard stretched increasingly thin by deployments with the regular force units they are assigned to fill out, more and more that leaves the states without personnel to do the non-combat functions the peacetime National Guard used to do when called to state duty; things like disaster relief operations (including maintaining security in disaster areas), evacuations, sandbagging levees, and so on. A militarily organized state guard or militia could fill that role (possibly with coordinated assistance from those National Guard units that might be available). That would take the pressure off the Guard's federal functions, and give its members some public service duties few should find objectionable. Think of it as an alternative form of national service.

I'll buy that.