Working with new linux distribution

[Steerpike]

Well, new to me anyway.

It is called DreamLinux, and so far it works pretty well. I'll post more feedback about it after I have more time to play with it. The one thing I can say so far that is really nice about it is this: it is the only Linux distro I've ever tried that has enabled my laptop's Broadcom wireless adapter straight out of the box. I didn't have to do anything. I've tried probably a dozen distros (including SUSE, Fedore, Ubuntu, Mandrake, Gentoo, BeatriX, gOS, etc.) and none of them have ever managed to get my wireless working right out of the 'box,' so I am taking this as a good sign.

 

[Diuretic]

Excellent news - it's a lovely looking distro and it has that single click install on it which should make it attractive to a migrating Wndows or Mac user. It looks like it's based on Debian Lenny which means lots of packages, but it already has a lot of very useful packages installed. I'll be interested to read further on your experiences with it.

 

[KittenKoder]

See ... Linux is evolving more, and faster now. WOOT!

 

[Diuretic]

Very interesting article in the latest issue (78) of the UK magazine Linux User and Developer (the "developer" tag is redundant for me) in which one of the writers who is reviewing DreamLinux (Jay Kruizenga from Grand Rapids, Mich.) makes some really good points.

The first is that those of us who came to Linux late are more demanding now and require more out of the desktop. He writes that we want streaming audio, video and best of Web 2.0 and for me at least he's exactly right. He also discusses the differences between pragmatic Torvalds and purist Stallman and says Linux is going to see more of a mix between proprietary drivers and codecs and open source software. Again for a mere user like me that's a rarified argument but I think I understand what's driving it. But all I want is a better desktop and I don't want to pay licence fees and get caught with all kinds of sodding about the MS gets up to these days.

Oh just installed the alpha of Opera 10. Very fast.

 

[Steerpike]

See ... Linux is evolving more, and faster now. WOOT!

Yeah, the wireless works better than any other distro. Still a lot of problems, though. Firefox crashes randomly. Opera is stable. I've spent quite a bit of time in the terminal trying to get features working for the browsers.

Overall, I like the distro, and once I get Firefox stable I'll like it better. But I wouldn't give it to a novice.

 

[Steerpike]

The first is that those of us who came to Linux late are more demanding now and require more out of the desktop. He writes that we want streaming audio, video and best of Web 2.0 and for me at least he's exactly right. He also discusses the differences between pragmatic Torvalds and purist Stallman and says Linux is going to see more of a mix between proprietary drivers and codecs and open source software. Again for a mere user like me that's a rarified argument but I think I understand what's driving it. But all I want is a better desktop and I don't want to pay licence fees and get caught with all kinds of sodding about the MS gets up to these days.

Makes sense. If Linux is going to compete with MacOS and Windows, it is going to have to offer all of the capabilities of those operating system out of the box, with no necessity to tweak on the part of the user. I haven't seen a distro yet that can do it, but I'm still looking. I'm partial to SUSE over Ubuntu, though they're both good.

 

[Diuretic]

I like Suse, I tried a few variations and it was very good but it didn't like my hardware or I couldn't get it to like my hardware but that's my problem, it's an excellent distro and the green makes a change from blue and brown

 

[Steerpike]

SUSE is a pain for my wireless hardware. But then, most distros are terrible pains in the ass with Broadcom wireless. That's one big reason I'm really liking DreamLinux - wireless is nice, and the Emerald Themes make it look very cool too.

 

[KittenKoder]

I am still clueless as to what wireless problems you are talking about, yes I read all of it on all the threads, but I am more of a 'hands on' techie, I like to see the problem otherwise my imagination doesn't stretch far enough to figure it out remotely or from a third person perspective. However, it's the fact that there are choices out there that I like. With Windoze you just have MS Windoze and they won't release the new source code (they released up to 2K). It's a trend though, hopefully one that will keep rolling instead of die off like the last time, seeing all the new distros and kernels. While Linux has been around for a long time it never entered the desktop market because of a lack of interest (at least not very strongly). But with the increasing frustration many Windoze users are feeling (especially for developers and web designers) Linux is increasing in popularity enough to spark new versions, but the one biggest benefit to this trend is that the software is almost always compatible with all versions (almost, Mac being one example of a *nix kernel that wasn't but will soon be). But again, people need to move out of their cozy, laxed, comfort zone enough to try it more.

 

[Steerpike]

Linux distros don't work well with Broadcom wireless cards in laptops. It's a well-known issue - you can look in any forums for various distros and see multiple threads on it.

You typically have to use get the windows driver and use fwcutter and ndiswrapper to get it to work. Depending on the distro, you may have to do a lot of it in the terminal.

 

[Steerpike]

I think it is unreasonable to expect most people to move out of their relaxed comfort zones. Why should they? For people like me, it is fun. For Linux to really gain a foothold, linux developers need to ditch the attitude that blames the end users for not 'trying' it and give them a real reason to do so. For right now, for the average computer user who gets his copy of Windows bundled with the computer he just bought at Best Buy, there is absolutely no reason in the world to even give linux a try.

It'll be nice if that changes some day

 

[KittenKoder]

Linux distros don't work well with Broadcom wireless cards in laptops. It's a well-known issue - you can look in any forums for various distros and see multiple threads on it.

You typically have to use get the windows driver and use fwcutter and ndiswrapper to get it to work. Depending on the distro, you may have to do a lot of it in the terminal.

Oh, now I get it. Then it's not the Linux programmers fault, it's a rights problem. As I said somewhere else, since Linux is open source many of the manufacturers are not allowed (because of contracts they stupidly signed with MS) to allow the source code for their drivers to be released. Many open source coders just work around them, but unless someone writes the code from scratch (which they would have to have a reason for it) you have to find another work around.

Thus is why MS has angered a lot of coders, many of us like to rewrite the drivers for our programs so they work better with what we need, and the latest contracts with the hardware developers don't allow them to release their source code to anyone except MS. Made them a lot of money at first ... but now even they are seeing the trend to Linux/Unix and are getting annoyed. Some have rewritten their own driver source code and 'accidentally' leaked it. A few are being stubborn and think that MS is still the only choice so they won't even let the schematics for their hardware to be released. I use to write drivers from the schematics using the interrupt and memory locations directly, but now finding those schematics is almost impossible.

 

[KittenKoder]

I think it is unreasonable to expect most people to move out of their relaxed comfort zones. Why should they? For people like me, it is fun. For Linux to really gain a foothold, linux developers need to ditch the attitude that blames the end users for not 'trying' it and give them a real reason to do so. For right now, for the average computer user who gets his copy of Windows bundled with the computer he just bought at Best Buy, there is absolutely no reason in the world to even give linux a try.

It'll be nice if that changes some day

The having Windoze preinstalled is another of the contracts people have tried to sue over. But that's business not really a tech issue. I don't blame them for not trying it, I just hate the ones that rant about how Windoze is supreme and yet haven't even tried the others, those are the users I really can't stand. Most though just use what's already installed but don't pretend to think they know what's better and what's not, they're okay but they are also the ones who really should consider trying out the other OS's more than the previous types, just so they know that if they have problems they also have choices.

 

[Steerpike]

Oh, now I get it. Then it's not the Linux programmers fault, it's a rights problem.

Well, in part. The programmers can set up ndiswrapper etc. to work out of the box like they've done with DreamLinux.

The point is, however, that the end user isn't going to care whether it is Broadcom's fault or whether it is the fault of the linux programmer. They're only going to know that their wireless doesn't work and they're going to stick to Windows.

 

[Steerpike]

Switched back to SUSE. DreamLinux is cool, but not too stable. The web browsers in particular crashed all the time.

OpenSUSE 11.1 is great, and I recommend it to anyone who is looking for a Linux distro.