Working to cope with climate change

[Old Rocks]

Ocean acidification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ocean acidification is the name given to the ongoing decrease in the pH of the Earth's oceans, caused by the uptake of anthropogenic carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere.[1] About a quarter of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere goes into the oceans, where it forms carbonic acid.

As the amount of carbon has risen in the atmosphere there has been a corresponding rise of carbon going into the ocean. Between 1751 and 1994 surface ocean pH is estimated to have decreased from approximately 8.25 to 8.14,[2] representing an increase of almost 30% in "acidity" (H+ ion concentration) in the world's oceans.[3][4][5]

This ongoing acidification of the oceans poses a threat to the food chains connected with the oceans.[6]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Local News | Acidity in ocean killed NW oysters, new study says | Seattle Times Newspaper

Researchers said Wednesday they can definitively show that ocean acidification is at least partly responsible for massive oyster die-offs at the hatchery in Netarts Bay, Ore.

It's the first concrete finding in North America that carbon dioxide being taken up by the oceans already is helping kill marine species.

"This is the smoking gun for oyster larvae," said Richard Feely, an oceanographer and leading marine-chemistry researcher with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Seattle and one of the paper's authors.

Said Alan Barton, another of the paper's authors: "It's now an incontrovertible fact that ocean chemistry is affecting our larvae."

Hmmmmmmm. Why don't they mention this deadly acid, the same one that makes soda fuzz, in the article? What concentrations were observed? What was the ocean pH?

Why didn't they add some trace amount of this mystery acid to the harbor water to see the result? They could have poured a can of Sprite in the water.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

New research from last week 18/2012 « AGW Observer

Expected ocean acidification from human actions seems to be unprecedented in the geologic past

History of Seawater Carbonate Chemistry, Atmospheric CO2, and Ocean Acidification – Zeebe (2012) [FULL TEXT]

Abstract: “Humans are continuing to add vast amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) to the atmosphere through fossil fuel burning and other activities. A large fraction of the CO2 is taken up by the oceans in a process that lowers ocean pH and carbonate mineral saturation state. This effect has potentially serious consequences for marine life, which are, however, difficult to predict. One approach to address the issue is to study the geologic record, which may provide clues about what the future holds for ocean chemistry and marine organisms. This article reviews basic controls on ocean carbonate chemistry on different timescales and examines past ocean chemistry changes and ocean acidification events during various geologic eras. The results allow evaluation of the current anthropogenic perturbation in the context of Earth’s history. It appears that the ocean acidification event that humans are expected to cause is unprecedented in the geologic past, for which sufficiently well-preserved records are available.”

Citation: Richard E. Zeebe, Annual Review of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Vol. 40: 141-165 (Volume publication date May 2012), DOI: 10.1146/annurev-earth-042711-105521.

"Humans are continuing to add vast (lolz) amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) to the atmosphere through fossil fuel burning and other activities. A large (lolz) fraction of the CO2 is taken up by the oceans

(These are "Scientific papers"? Seriously?)

So there's no "feedback loop" anymore? The oceans are absorbing a "Large fraction" of it....very vague, no? 10% 60%?

Humans are adding vague amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere and the ocean is absorbing (not dispelling in a feedback loop) even vaguer but large amounts of CO2

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Local News | Acidity in ocean killed NW oysters, new study says | Seattle Times Newspaper

Researchers said Wednesday they can definitively show that ocean acidification is at least partly responsible for massive oyster die-offs at the hatchery in Netarts Bay, Ore.

It's the first concrete finding in North America that carbon dioxide being taken up by the oceans already is helping kill marine species.

"This is the smoking gun for oyster larvae," said Richard Feely, an oceanographer and leading marine-chemistry researcher with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Seattle and one of the paper's authors.

Said Alan Barton, another of the paper's authors: "It's now an incontrovertible fact that ocean chemistry is affecting our larvae."

But if you wanted to control for soda pop fizz acid, isn't the proper way to conduct the experiment with harbor water and then harbor water with soda fizz acid?

 

[flacaltenn]

Ole Rocks.. You just got to let the Wiki fascination go.. When the oceans start SELECTIVELY taking up JUST the anthropogenic CO2 -- I'll retire and more to higher ground.....
You sure he wasn't talking about Lysergic Acid DiEthylamide??

Ocean acidification is the name given to the ongoing decrease in the pH of the Earth's oceans, caused by the uptake of anthropogenic carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere.[1] About a quarter of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere goes into the oceans, where it forms carbonic acid.

I hear that trees simply spit out the MAN-MADE stuff....

 

[IanC]

Local News | Acidity in ocean killed NW oysters, new study says | Seattle Times Newspaper

Researchers said Wednesday they can definitively show that ocean acidification is at least partly responsible for massive oyster die-offs at the hatchery in Netarts Bay, Ore.

It's the first concrete finding in North America that carbon dioxide being taken up by the oceans already is helping kill marine species.

"This is the smoking gun for oyster larvae," said Richard Feely, an oceanographer and leading marine-chemistry researcher with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Seattle and one of the paper's authors.

Said Alan Barton, another of the paper's authors: "It's now an incontrovertible fact that ocean chemistry is affecting our larvae."

hahahaha. the pacific northwest is full of wackos spewing crazy theories.

oysters live on the beach where pH swings of several tenths are the norm. yet they claim occasional wind storms churn up cooler water that is few hundredths lower than the surface and is killing the larvae.

there's a sucker born every minute, I suppose.

 

[Trakar]

There has always been climate change on planet earth since it was formed, and there always will be until the sun goes nova.

(it is doubtful that the Earth will be around during the solar "burping" period of our star's evolution, but, other than that,...) Indeed there has, what makes you believe this information (re:"There has always been climate change on planet earth since it was formed,..." is new, or relevent information to this discussion?

 

[Trakar]

Remember when Bush CAUSED Hurricane Katrina.

Can you cite or reference anyone other than pre-teatard conservidiots who have ever stated that Bush caused Hurricane Katrina, or more importantly, why you feel this comment is relevent to this thread's topic of discussion?

 

[Trakar]

Remember when Bush CAUSED Hurricane Katrina.

And that was just the first of the annual Cat V Hurricanes that struck LA and FL because of ManMadeGlobalWamerCooleringClimateChangeDisruption

Never heard of any "annual Cat V Hurricanes" that were supposed to strike LA and FL, as any proposal of AGW, can you reference or otherwise support which climate agencies or researchers made this assertion?

 

[Trakar]

IPCC is an EnviroMarxist organization that has a policy of redistributing wealth through Climate change.

That is a fringe political conspiracy theory, nothing I have ever seen any compelling evidence in support of.

 

[flacaltenn]

Remember when Bush CAUSED Hurricane Katrina.

And that was just the first of the annual Cat V Hurricanes that struck LA and FL because of ManMadeGlobalWamerCooleringClimateChangeDisruption

Never heard of any "annual Cat V Hurricanes" that were supposed to strike LA and FL, as any proposal of AGW, can you reference or otherwise support which climate agencies or researchers made this assertion?

You missed Al Gores' award-winning documentary? The endless repetition of the "more numerous, more powerful storms" crappola?

 

[Old Rocks]

Now Flat, why don't you just continue to demonstrate your incredible stupidity!

Munich Re - Effects during the winter half-year

Winter storms
The number of intense low-pressure systems forming over the Atlantic and the proportion of westerly weather patterns rose steeply in the period from the 1970s until around 1990.
Many climate models indicate an increase in severe storms by the end of the 21st century, despite a fall in winter low-pressure systems over the North Atlantic. As a result, Europe’s overall exposure to winter storms will rise.
Models show greater exposure to wind, affecting in particular a corridor extending from the UK to central Europe, together with northern France, the Benelux states, Denmark and northern Germany.
Studies based on a number of climate models project that Germany’s annual loss ratios for winter storm will increase by more than 100% between the reference period 1960–1990 and the scenario period 2070–2100.
Torrential rain, floods
Increased westerly air flows during the winter half-year have also resulted in a 20–30% rise in precipitation over western and southern Germany in recent decades, often bringing torrential rain and floods.
A climate model analysis by the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology in Hamburg projects an increase in winter precipitation of some 10–20% between the 1961–1990 and 2071–2100 averages for Germany as a whole, and as much as 30% on the North Sea coast, in Schleswig-Holstein and in the Central German Uplands.
Switzerland has experienced a far higher number of intense precipitation days (minimum 70 mm over a minimum 500 km2 surface area) on the northern edge and in the interior region of the Alps.
Winter precipitation is projected to increase by some 10–20% in the Swiss plateau region, southern Switzerland, many parts of Upper and Lower Austria, Burgenland, Styria and Carinthia, most of the Czech Republic, parts of the Slovak Republic and in the Alpine regions of northern Italy.

 

[flacaltenn]

That's WEATHER Roxy -- not climate. Jet stream stuff. I was responding to Trakar request for an example of the AGW alarmist message on TRENDS in Cat 5 storms. How we are all gonna die must definately from killer hurricanes who can SENSE that 1 degree in surface temperature....

Not rinky-dink bad weather in northern Russia or Europe..

 

[Old Rocks]

Rinky-dinky bad weather in Russia, Australia, USA, Thailand, and many other places that caused many billions of dollars of damage in just two years.

32 Extreme Weather Disasters Caused Over $1B Damage Each In 2011

2011 was a record-breaking year for extreme weather events around the world. There were 32 extreme weather events worldwide that each caused over $1 billion damage. Four disasters cost more than $10 billion each.

Tens of thousands of people were killed in various floods, droughts and severe storms. The drought in Somalia, which helped cause a famine, caused the death of over 30,ooo people; many were children.

There were huge floods in Brazil, Colombia, Pakistan, Australia, Thailand, and the Philippines. The worst flood damage of the year, in terms of economic cost, was in Thailand. It amounted to around 18% of the country’s GDP.

In addition, we reported recently that lawmakers in Thailand are even considering building a second capital or moving Bangkok to higher ground. It would become the first megacity in the world to do so.

 

[IanC]

That's WEATHER Roxy -- not climate. Jet stream stuff. I was responding to Trakar request for an example of the AGW alarmist message on TRENDS in Cat 5 storms. How we are all gonna die must definately from killer hurricanes who can SENSE that 1 degree in surface temperature....

Not rinky-dink bad weather in northern Russia or Europe..

dont bother arguing with Old Rocks. with him its always his links are good, your links are bad. his lines of reasoning are perfect, your lines are flawed.

he never answers questions, he just endlessly and mindlessly puts up the same links. there is no possibility of a dialogue with him.

 

[Old Rocks]

Interpreted as, the son-of-a-gun goes to sources.

Again, there was no claim of yearly Cat 5's. However, there is a claim of increased extreme weather events. And that is exactly what we are seeing.

 

[flacaltenn]

Interpreted as, the son-of-a-gun goes to sources.

Again, there was no claim of yearly Cat 5's. However, there is a claim of increased extreme weather events. And that is exactly what we are seeing.

You're as slimy as a lungfish.. Just when I thought you had zigged right out of the original issue -- you come back with this...

How about --- I'm sure you're wrong on this and I will provide the appropriate links when the time suites me?? Why do think your kin are labeled ALARMISTS???

 

[Old Rocks]

Alarmist? It was predicted that we would see an Arctic Ocean nearly clear of ice by 2100. Now it looks like 2030 at the latest, and maybe before 2020. At the end of a double La Nina, the April global temperature stood at 0.30. That is higher than any high prior to 1998.

UAH Global Temperature Update for April 2012: +0.30°C « Roy Spencer, Ph. D.

These 'alarmists' have been proven to be far to conservative in predicting the sensitivity to a rise in temperature, even as mild as the present one. And far too conservative in predicting the response of the cryosphere to that rise.

Arctic Methane Emergency Group - AMEG - Home

 

[flacaltenn]

Ok Ye Old Rocks...

I don't do forum beat-downs anymore because I started to get night sweats imagining that I was busting on a 12 yr old or a confirmed mental case.. So let's just give you just ONE, then you say --- "I was mistaken flacaltenn, NOW I remember several other times the Alarmists went overboard on hurricanes". We be still friends and everybody gets a nightcap...

Category 6 Hurricanes? They've Happened - ABC News

There is no official Category 6 for hurricanes, but scientists say they're pondering whether there should be as evidence mounts that hurricanes around the world have sharply worsened over the past 30 years -- and all but a handful of hurricane experts now agree this worsening bears the fingerprints of man-made global warming.

But because of man-made global warming, most hurricane scientists say now we will probably be getting Category 4 and 5 hurricanes more frequently in the coming decades.

OR -- you could get all cranky and belligerient and start thinking like that Clint Eastwood scene depicts...

"... Now you're thinking do I have ONE link or HUNDREDS. Do you feel lucky punk? Well do ya?"

 

[Trakar]

And that was just the first of the annual Cat V Hurricanes that struck LA and FL because of ManMadeGlobalWamerCooleringClimateChangeDisruption

Never heard of any "annual Cat V Hurricanes" that were supposed to strike LA and FL, as any proposal of AGW, can you reference or otherwise support which climate agencies or researchers made this assertion?

You missed Al Gores' award-winning documentary? The endless repetition of the "more numerous, more powerful storms" crappola?

cite and reference any climate agency or researcher who claimed there would be annual Cat V hurricane landfalls in LA and FL, I'll even take a specific quote from the former Vice President's award winning documentary claiming annual Cat V Hurricanes would be striking LA and FL if that's the best you can do, but I've searched the transcript several times and I see nothing that could even be mistaken for that claim.