"Working Class Hero"

[georgephillip]

"...is something to be
Keep you doped on religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking (slaves) as far as I can see."

'Apologies to John Lennon since he used the word "peasants" instead of "slaves". I suspect Lennon was a millionaire many times over when he wrote these lyrics.

Why is it America's corporate rich reward themselves "in direct proportion to the amount of suffering they have caused" and taxpayers who bailed out Wall Street continue to deny the existence of class war?

Are you disputing gravity also?

"Instead of taxing the super rich on the bonuses dispensed by top corporations such as Exxon, Bank of America, General Electric, Chevron and Boeing, all of which managed to avoid paying any federal corporate taxes last year, the politicians of both parties in Congress are about to accede to the Republican demand that programs that help ordinary folks be cut to pay for the programs that bailed out the banks."

Cut the programs like Headstart that help the children of ordinary taxpayers to pay for the programs that are bailing out Wall Street?

Only slaves born to serve the corporation (or the cross) could vote for that.

The Peasants Need Pitchforks | Truthout

 

[Oddball]

Hard to take someone seriously, when they lie so blatantly:

"Instead of taxing the super rich on the bonuses dispensed by top corporations such as Exxon, Bank of America, General Electric, Chevron and Boeing....

Those bonuses were subject to the same income taxes every other "rich fat cat" pays.

 

[georgephillip]

Income taxes paid at a 15% rate instead of the 35% paid by productive citizens who didn't crash the housing market.

Scheer's point is that instead of taxing the richest 1% of Americans at the same rates their servants pay, Republicans AND Democrats are choosing to cut Headstart.

 

[washamericom]

you're like clockwork trotsky, in regularly bringing this around. i'm curious, what's your spin on g.e. jeff immelt and barrak obama ??

 

[georgephillip]

Wash...

Robert Scheer summed up the Obama/Immelt cartel about as well as anyone I know of:

"If it had been revealed that Jeffrey Immelt once hired an undocumented nanny, or defaulted on his mortgage, he would be forced to resign as head of President Barack Obama’s 'Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.'

"But the fact that General Electric, where Immelt is CEO, didn’t pay taxes on its $14.5 billion profit last year—and indeed is asking for a $3.2 billion tax rebate—has not produced a word of criticism from the president, who in January praised Immelt as a business leader who 'understands what it takes for America to compete in the global economy.'

"What it takes, evidently, is shifting profit and jobs abroad: Only one out of three GE workers is now based in the U.S., and almost two-thirds of the company’s profit is sheltered in its foreign operations.

"Thanks to changes in the tax law engineered when another avowedly pro-business Democrat, Bill Clinton, was president, U.S. multinational financial companies can avoid taxes on their international scams.

"And financial scams are what GE excelled in for decades, when GE Capital, its financial unit, which specialized in credit card, consumer loan and housing mortgage debt, accounted for most of GE’s profits."

I'm not sure if you've been working long enough to remember the US economy of thirty years ago, when a single minimum-wage job paid enough to cover the rent on a brand new one-bedroom apartment with enough left over to maintain a six year-old car.

The economy has doubled in those three decades yet the bottom 90% of earners in the US earn an average of $280/year more than they did 30 years ago, adjusted for inflation.

I don't believe things will improve in the next three decades for at least 9 out of 10 American families, and that's why I raise this issue regularly.

Obama's Fatal Corporate Addiction | Common Dreams

 

[washamericom]

you are always cogent and well spoken trotsky (from seinfeld)... and determined. i wish we could win you over from the dark side. and i've seen you take a lot of crap on this board (from including myself), and you cheerfully proceed with quiet confidence. i think it's great. if you ever want to write something on any subject, i'd find a place for it at washamericom. i'm always looking for bright and smart people who argue well, from any position.
i don't agree with your politics, but i think you're one of the best presenters on this board, i admire your style.
who would you choose/like to be president ?

 

[spectrumc01]

All you can do is show them the facts, its up to them to see it.

 

[georgephillip]

you are always cogent and well spoken trotsky (from seinfeld)... and determined. i wish we could win you over from the dark side. and i've seen you take a lot of crap on this board (from including myself), and you cheerfully proceed with quiet confidence. i think it's great. if you ever want to write something on any subject, i'd find a place for it at washamericom. i'm always looking for bright and smart people who argue well, from any position.
i don't agree with your politics, but i think you're one of the best presenters on this board, i admire your style.
who would you choose/like to be president ?

I would feel honored to post on washamericom.

My choice of president would be determined by a contest between Ralph Nader (in spite of his age) and Ron Paul (Libertarian) with the loser being offered the vice presidency.

I think it's true that for many of us the economy of 2008 hasn't disappeared down the corporate memory hole, yet. If the economy of 2012 is even worse for 90+% of Americans, I'm hopeful that many (especially those who don't usually vote) will decide to FLUSH hundreds of Democrats, and a few Republicans, from the US Congress is a single news cycle.

Thanks for you kind remarks. Only on the Internet is it possible to communicate consistently with as wide a range of opinion as you see on USMB.

 

[georgephillip]

All you can do is show them the facts, its up to them to see it.

"In politics when reason and emotion collide, emotion invariably wins."

Drew Westin makes this point in his book The Political Brain to demonstrate why Democrats consistently lose to Republicans on questions like why so many working class Americans regularly cast ballots in opposition to their economic interests.

Democrats place most of their confidence in the Marketplace of Ideas while Republicans own the Marketplace of Emotions. Think back to the 2004 Presidential election and imagine the emotional gain Democrats could have achieved if Kerry had pulled out some of Bush's campaign footage from 2000 showing Dubya with his arm around his biggest campaign contributor, Enron's Ken Lay, and promising to "run this country like a CEO runs a company."

It's a little scary to believe most of our political decisions are actually based on emotion instead of reason.

The Political Brain copyright 2008 p.36

 

[washamericom]

you are always cogent and well spoken trotsky (from seinfeld)... and determined. i wish we could win you over from the dark side. and i've seen you take a lot of crap on this board (from including myself), and you cheerfully proceed with quiet confidence. i think it's great. if you ever want to write something on any subject, i'd find a place for it at washamericom. i'm always looking for bright and smart people who argue well, from any position.
i don't agree with your politics, but i think you're one of the best presenters on this board, i admire your style.
who would you choose/like to be president ?

I would feel honored to post on washamericom.

My choice of president would be determined by a contest between Ralph Nader (in spite of his age) and Ron Paul (Libertarian) with the loser being offered the vice presidency.

I think it's true that for many of us the economy of 2008 hasn't disappeared down the corporate memory hole, yet. If the economy of 2012 is even worse for 90+% of Americans, I'm hopeful that many (especially those who don't usually vote) will decide to FLUSH hundreds of Democrats, and a few Republicans, from the US Congress is a single news cycle.

Thanks for you kind remarks. Only on the Internet is it possible to communicate consistently with as wide a range of opinion as you see on USMB.

i agree. could give me a thousand words on what ever you want.? the only rule is no "c" word, other than that, pretty much anything goes. thanks man ! if it goes well you can have your own page, it's the "america''s website" now, so i'll need help filling it out... know any democrats ??
cheers trotsky ! i'll pm you the details.

 

[Skull Pilot]

If all you aspire to be is a working class slob, I pity you.

 

[washamericom]

If all you aspire to be is a working class slob, I pity you.

hey... it's worked okay for me.

 

[Ernie S.]

"...is something to be
Keep you doped on religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking (slaves) as far as I can see."

'Apologies to John Lennon since he used the word "peasants" instead of "slaves". I suspect Lennon was a millionaire many times over when he wrote these lyrics.

Why is it America's corporate rich reward themselves "in direct proportion to the amount of suffering they have caused" and taxpayers who bailed out Wall Street continue to deny the existence of class war?

Are you disputing gravity also?

"Instead of taxing the super rich on the bonuses dispensed by top corporations such as Exxon, Bank of America, General Electric, Chevron and Boeing, all of which managed to avoid paying any federal corporate taxes last year, the politicians of both parties in Congress are about to accede to the Republican demand that programs that help ordinary folks be cut to pay for the programs that bailed out the banks."

Cut the programs like Headstart that help the children of ordinary taxpayers to pay for the programs that are bailing out Wall Street?

Only slaves born to serve the corporation (or the cross) could vote for that.

The Peasants Need Pitchforks | Truthout

How many people do those ordinary folks you speak of, employ?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Income taxes paid at a 15% rate instead of the 35% paid by productive citizens who didn't crash the housing market.

Scheer's point is that instead of taxing the richest 1% of Americans at the same rates their servants pay, Republicans AND Democrats are choosing to cut Headstart.

I bet you're a real hoot to hang out with, you know, with that cheery disposition and all.

 

[kiwiman127]

"...is something to be
Keep you doped on religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking (slaves) as far as I can see."

'Apologies to John Lennon since he used the word "peasants" instead of "slaves". I suspect Lennon was a millionaire many times over when he wrote these lyrics.

Why is it America's corporate rich reward themselves "in direct proportion to the amount of suffering they have caused" and taxpayers who bailed out Wall Street continue to deny the existence of class war?

Are you disputing gravity also?

"Instead of taxing the super rich on the bonuses dispensed by top corporations such as Exxon, Bank of America, General Electric, Chevron and Boeing, all of which managed to avoid paying any federal corporate taxes last year, the politicians of both parties in Congress are about to accede to the Republican demand that programs that help ordinary folks be cut to pay for the programs that bailed out the banks."

Cut the programs like Headstart that help the children of ordinary taxpayers to pay for the programs that are bailing out Wall Street?

Only slaves born to serve the corporation (or the cross) could vote for that.

The Peasants Need Pitchforks | Truthout

How many people do those ordinary folks you speak of, employ?[/QUOTE]

And that means what? Is it that the poor don't employ anyone, so they don't matter?
Over 30 years of flat wages for the working class despite enormous gains in productivity and an economy that about doubled itself during those 30 years.
BUT, let's make light of the working class that makes up the largest economic class in this country.
And who is the subject of the budget cuts,,,the working poor and middle class. Who goes unscathed? Corporate America and the top percentile in wealth.
Class warfare continues.

 

[boedicca]

And even if they did jack up taxes on The Rich, it wouldn't even cover a month of Obama Deficits.

But those of us who've been paying attention know that the real Tax Target is the broad middle class.

For anyone who wants to discuss the revenue side of the budget debate knowledgably, I highly recommend spending some time with the IRS's Statistics on Income. Table 1.1 under Individual Statistical Tables is a good place to start: Index of /pub/irs-soi/...

You can see, for example, that total taxable income in 2008 was $5,488 billion. Taxable income over $100,000 was $1,582 billion, over $200,000 was $1,185 billion, over $500,000 was $820 billion, over $1 million was $616 billion, over $2 million was $460 billion, over $5 million was $302 billion, and over $10 million was $212 billion. Effective tax rates as a percentage of taxable income seem to top out around 27%.

You can estimate the effects of various proposals in the best case, which is that each percentage point increase in the marginal rate translates to an equal increase in the effective rate. Going back to 2000 ("Clinton era") marginal rates on income over $200,000, let's call it a 5 percentage point increase in the marginal rate, would therefore yield $59 billion on a static basis. Going from there to a 45% rate on incomes over $1 million (another 5 percentage point increase) yields an additional $31 billion. Or, instead, on top of 2000 rates over $200,000, 50%/60%/70% on $500,000/$5 million/$10 million? An extra $133 billion, or nearly 1% of GDP. That's not accounting for the further middle class tax cuts that are usually proposed along with these "millionaires' taxes."

Now, compare this to deficits of $1,413 billion in 2009 and $1,293 billion in 2010, and using optimistic White House estimates, $1,645 billion in 2011 $1,101 billion in 2012, $768 billion in 2013, and continuing at over $600 billion after.

Alternatively, you might also notice that while taxable income in 2008 was $5,488 billion, adjusted gross income on all returns was $7,583 billion on taxable returns only (with an additional $680 billion on untaxable returns), which means that $2,095 billion isn't even in the tax base. $592 billion of that difference is exemptions, which are not tax expenditures, and $1,512 billion is deductions, which are mostly tax expenditures.

My point is just that I don't see how deficits this large can be closed with income taxes on the rich, even at marginal rates far higher than anything we've seen in the post-1986 era. Paying for spending at near-term levels, not even considering entitlement and interest payments that will accelerate a decade out, would have to include meaningful base broadening by eliminating tax expenditures like the mortgage interest deduction or the employer health case deduction, or would have to rely on new taxes like a VAT.

Eat the Rich - Megan McArdle - Business - The Atlantic

 

[kiwiman127]

Nice article, I think The Atantic is a top notch news resource. I have a subscription.
But the article you posted means what in relations to the middle class/working class being the target of budget cuts but not the top percentile or Corporate America.

 

[georgephillip]

If all you aspire to be is a working class slob, I pity you.

It isn't dying as a working class slob that keeps me awake some nights, it's dying as a wage slave.

Abraham Lincoln apparently saw little difference between chattel slavery and wage slaves. Certainly working conditions are better in this country today than in Abe's, however you don't have to endorse the Labor Theory of Value to suspect workers in a corporate controlled marketplace are not being paid the full value of their labor.

 

[georgephillip]

"...is something to be
Keep you doped on religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking (slaves) as far as I can see."

'Apologies to John Lennon since he used the word "peasants" instead of "slaves". I suspect Lennon was a millionaire many times over when he wrote these lyrics.

Why is it America's corporate rich reward themselves "in direct proportion to the amount of suffering they have caused" and taxpayers who bailed out Wall Street continue to deny the existence of class war?

Are you disputing gravity also?

"Instead of taxing the super rich on the bonuses dispensed by top corporations such as Exxon, Bank of America, General Electric, Chevron and Boeing, all of which managed to avoid paying any federal corporate taxes last year, the politicians of both parties in Congress are about to accede to the Republican demand that programs that help ordinary folks be cut to pay for the programs that bailed out the banks."

Cut the programs like Headstart that help the children of ordinary taxpayers to pay for the programs that are bailing out Wall Street?

Only slaves born to serve the corporation (or the cross) could vote for that.

The Peasants Need Pitchforks | Truthout

How many people do those ordinary folks you speak of, employ?

Very few in this country and none at all in China and India.

Small businesses and all levels of government also employ a lot of people in this country. Of course, small businesses also fail regularly, adding to the unemployment rolls.

I don't think the fact that Exxon or GE employ thousands of Americans should exempt them from paying corporate income taxes or that their executives should pay income taxes at a 15% rate instead of 35% when the alternatives involve cutting programs like Headstart.

During a time when millions of Americans have lost their jobs, houses and retirement savings how much more money do the richest 1% deserve?

 

[sparky]

Hard to take someone seriously, when they lie so blatantly:

"Instead of taxing the super rich on the bonuses dispensed by top corporations such as Exxon, Bank of America, General Electric, Chevron and Boeing....

Those bonuses were subject to the same income taxes every other "rich fat cat" pays.

perhaps the term should be corporate welfare, corporate entitlements, or tax loopholes then

they do exist, not to mention they were privey to the largest redistribution of wealth this country has ever seen, and still maintain zero allegiance to it


1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.


2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.


3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.


4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.


5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.


6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.


7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.


8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.


9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.


10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.


maybe investing in the terrorist industrial complex is the way to go?