Work towards a Better Future

[ForeverYoung436]

I know that it's fun to debate issues. That's why there are debating teams in college. But I can't get over you guys, from both sides really, debating the same old treaties from 1947-48, over and over again, ad nauseum. It would really make more sense, IMHO, to debate ways of creating a peaceful resolution of this conflict--and not the unrealistic ones of dismantling the entire State of Israel, or expelling the entire Palestinian population of the West Bank.
As regards Jerusalem, most people don't know that a bunch of decrepit Arab villages were annexed to Jerusalem in 1967. No Jew steps foot in these areas. That's why having a knowledge of the facts on the ground would help in a resolution of this conflict. West Jerusalem with its government buildings, and the Old City, should always remain a part of Israel.

 

[aris2chat]

Sadly some don't want new ideas, they just come to trash one side or the other. I had that problem for years in the middle east. Those that mos needed help were un-shifting for a compromise to bring it about. We have seen some of the same problem with trying to form a unity government and in negotiation for a peace agreement. They want what they and not what they can get. Too many agreements have been turned down after months and years of struggling to reach that offer.

 

[montelatici]

There will never be a peaceful resolution because the Jews believe the Zionist myth which says that somehow it was manifest destiny that allowed the Europeans to colonize Palestine. Much like the colonizing Europeans up to the late 20th century, they believe that the indigenous people have no right to the land they once owned and inhabited. Unfortunately, this results in the Jews negotiating from a false premise, which makes it impossible to arrive at a just compromise acceptable to the non-Jews.

 

[Phoenall]

There will never be a peaceful resolution because the Jews believe the Zionist myth which says that somehow it was manifest destiny that allowed the Europeans to colonize Palestine. Much like the colonizing Europeans up to the late 20th century, they believe that the indigenous people have no right to the land they once owned and inhabited. Unfortunately, this results in the Jews negotiating from a false premise, which makes it impossible to arrive at a just compromise acceptable to the non-Jews.

What Zionist myth is this freddy boy, or are you going to spout islamocatholic Nazi propaganda again

 

[Daniyel]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There will never be a peaceful resolution because the Jews believe the Zionist myth which says that somehow it was manifest destiny that allowed the Europeans to colonize Palestine. Much like the colonizing Europeans up to the late 20th century, they believe that the indigenous people have no right to the land they once owned and inhabited. Unfortunately, this results in the Jews negotiating from a false premise, which makes it impossible to arrive at a just compromise acceptable to the non-Jews.

Interesting perspective. Start @ 33:15

 

[Phoenall]

There will never be a peaceful resolution because the Jews believe the Zionist myth which says that somehow it was manifest destiny that allowed the Europeans to colonize Palestine. Much like the colonizing Europeans up to the late 20th century, they believe that the indigenous people have no right to the land they once owned and inhabited. Unfortunately, this results in the Jews negotiating from a false premise, which makes it impossible to arrive at a just compromise acceptable to the non-Jews.

Interesting perspective. Start @ 33:15

Just islamonazi propaganda again, not taking into account the sovereign owners grant of 22% of the land of Palestine for the Jewish national home. Nor taking into account International laws of 1923 that you and team Palestine discount because they are in Israel's favour

 

[P F Tinmore]

There will never be a peaceful resolution because the Jews believe the Zionist myth which says that somehow it was manifest destiny that allowed the Europeans to colonize Palestine. Much like the colonizing Europeans up to the late 20th century, they believe that the indigenous people have no right to the land they once owned and inhabited. Unfortunately, this results in the Jews negotiating from a false premise, which makes it impossible to arrive at a just compromise acceptable to the non-Jews.

Interesting perspective. Start @ 33:15

Just islamonazi propaganda again, not taking into account the sovereign owners grant of 22% of the land of Palestine for the Jewish national home. Nor taking into account International laws of 1923 that you and team Palestine discount because they are in Israel's favour

You are basing your conclusions on false premise.

 

[aris2chat]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

Perhaps a vote.
Do you want a peace with the Israeli state?
Would you give up incitement and hate against Israel and accept it's right to exist?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in a Palestinians state?
Would you accept the the PA/Hamas disarming and leave only police as the law enforcement authorities?
Would you attempt to prevent or turn in potential terrorists to maintain a peace rather than force Israeli to retaliate for attacks?
To speed up rebuilding, modernization and repairs of infrastructure, would you be willing to allow Israelis to safely work with palestinians in G and the WB?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being jewish to live within a palestinian state?
Would you allow other jews to live in a palestinian state if they became palestinians?
Would you allow jewish companies to operate within a palestinian state that would create jobs for palestinians?
Could you live in peace with the jewish state of Israel?

 

[Daniyel]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

Perhaps a vote.
Do you want a peace with the Israeli state?
Would you give up incitement and hate against Israel and accept it's right to exist?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in a Palestinians state?
Would you accept the the PA/Hamas disarming and leave only police as the law enforcement authorities?
Would you attempt to prevent or turn in potential terrorists to maintain a peace rather than force Israeli to retaliate for attacks?
To speed up rebuilding, modernization and repairs of infrastructure, would you be willing to allow Israelis to safely work with palestinians in G and the WB?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being jewish to live within a palestinian state?
Would you allow other jews to live in a palestinian state if they became palestinians?
Would you allow jewish companies to operate within a palestinian state that would create jobs for palestinians?
Could you live in peace with the jewish state of Israel?

The momentum is crucial, this is why I believe Israel could be the only one to neutralize the PA and Hamas - entirely, in order to "colonize" a Palestinian democratic vote.

 

[P F Tinmore]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

Perhaps a vote.
Do you want a peace with the Israeli state?
Would you give up incitement and hate against Israel and accept it's right to exist?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in a Palestinians state?
Would you accept the the PA/Hamas disarming and leave only police as the law enforcement authorities?
Would you attempt to prevent or turn in potential terrorists to maintain a peace rather than force Israeli to retaliate for attacks?
To speed up rebuilding, modernization and repairs of infrastructure, would you be willing to allow Israelis to safely work with palestinians in G and the WB?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being jewish to live within a palestinian state?
Would you allow other jews to live in a palestinian state if they became palestinians?
Would you allow jewish companies to operate within a palestinian state that would create jobs for palestinians?
Could you live in peace with the jewish state of Israel?

Why don't you just to condense it to:

Should the Palestinians surrender to Israel's colonialism?

 

[Daniyel]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

Perhaps a vote.
Do you want a peace with the Israeli state?
Would you give up incitement and hate against Israel and accept it's right to exist?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in a Palestinians state?
Would you accept the the PA/Hamas disarming and leave only police as the law enforcement authorities?
Would you attempt to prevent or turn in potential terrorists to maintain a peace rather than force Israeli to retaliate for attacks?
To speed up rebuilding, modernization and repairs of infrastructure, would you be willing to allow Israelis to safely work with palestinians in G and the WB?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being jewish to live within a palestinian state?
Would you allow other jews to live in a palestinian state if they became palestinians?
Would you allow jewish companies to operate within a palestinian state that would create jobs for palestinians?
Could you live in peace with the jewish state of Israel?

Why don't you just to condense it to:

Should the Palestinians surrender to Israel's colonialism?

"1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines."

"Surrender"?
It could only be a victory for once in the Palestinian campaign of achieving their state, something they lost time and again - The problem begins when you (and your kind, no offense) claiming to be Pro-Palestinians while in fact you are simply Anti-Israel, its not that you care about Palestinians in particular, you just hate Israel - So every time there is a chance of some progress between Palestinians and Israelis, you (and your kind, no offense) incite them into hatred instead of addressing the real issues, for instance - a government that kidnap three teens and murders them in order to spark out a war.
You are one of the main problems, shame on you.

 

[montelatici]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

Perhaps a vote.
Do you want a peace with the Israeli state?
Would you give up incitement and hate against Israel and accept it's right to exist?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in a Palestinians state?
Would you accept the the PA/Hamas disarming and leave only police as the law enforcement authorities?
Would you attempt to prevent or turn in potential terrorists to maintain a peace rather than force Israeli to retaliate for attacks?
To speed up rebuilding, modernization and repairs of infrastructure, would you be willing to allow Israelis to safely work with palestinians in G and the WB?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being jewish to live within a palestinian state?
Would you allow other jews to live in a palestinian state if they became palestinians?
Would you allow jewish companies to operate within a palestinian state that would create jobs for palestinians?
Could you live in peace with the jewish state of Israel?

Why don't you just to condense it to:

Should the Palestinians surrender to Israel's colonialism?

"1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines."

"Surrender"?
It could only be a victory for once in the Palestinian campaign of achieving their state, something they lost time and again - The problem begins when you (and your kind, no offense) claiming to be Pro-Palestinians while in fact you are simply Anti-Israel, its not that you care about Palestinians in particular, you just hate Israel - So every time there is a chance of some progress between Palestinians and Israelis, you (and your kind, no offense) incite them into hatred instead of addressing the real issues, for instance - a government that kidnap three teens and murders them in order to spark out a war.
You are one of the main problems, shame on you.

The question was. Should the Palestinians just give up and submit to Israeli colonization?

 

[Phoenall]

There will never be a peaceful resolution because the Jews believe the Zionist myth which says that somehow it was manifest destiny that allowed the Europeans to colonize Palestine. Much like the colonizing Europeans up to the late 20th century, they believe that the indigenous people have no right to the land they once owned and inhabited. Unfortunately, this results in the Jews negotiating from a false premise, which makes it impossible to arrive at a just compromise acceptable to the non-Jews.

Interesting perspective. Start @ 33:15

Just islamonazi propaganda again, not taking into account the sovereign owners grant of 22% of the land of Palestine for the Jewish national home. Nor taking into account International laws of 1923 that you and team Palestine discount because they are in Israel's favour

You are basing your conclusions on false premise.

No on historical facts that are preserved in the UN archives, unless you have a different set of International laws and treaties ?

 

[Phoenall]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

Perhaps a vote.
Do you want a peace with the Israeli state?
Would you give up incitement and hate against Israel and accept it's right to exist?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in a Palestinians state?
Would you accept the the PA/Hamas disarming and leave only police as the law enforcement authorities?
Would you attempt to prevent or turn in potential terrorists to maintain a peace rather than force Israeli to retaliate for attacks?
To speed up rebuilding, modernization and repairs of infrastructure, would you be willing to allow Israelis to safely work with palestinians in G and the WB?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being jewish to live within a palestinian state?
Would you allow other jews to live in a palestinian state if they became palestinians?
Would you allow jewish companies to operate within a palestinian state that would create jobs for palestinians?
Could you live in peace with the jewish state of Israel?

Why don't you just to condense it to:

Should the Palestinians surrender to Israel's colonialism?

"1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines."

"Surrender"?
It could only be a victory for once in the Palestinian campaign of achieving their state, something they lost time and again - The problem begins when you (and your kind, no offense) claiming to be Pro-Palestinians while in fact you are simply Anti-Israel, its not that you care about Palestinians in particular, you just hate Israel - So every time there is a chance of some progress between Palestinians and Israelis, you (and your kind, no offense) incite them into hatred instead of addressing the real issues, for instance - a government that kidnap three teens and murders them in order to spark out a war.
You are one of the main problems, shame on you.

The question was. Should the Palestinians just give up and submit to Israeli colonization?

NOPE WRONG AGAIN

 

[Phoenall]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

Perhaps a vote.
Do you want a peace with the Israeli state?
Would you give up incitement and hate against Israel and accept it's right to exist?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in a Palestinians state?
Would you accept the the PA/Hamas disarming and leave only police as the law enforcement authorities?
Would you attempt to prevent or turn in potential terrorists to maintain a peace rather than force Israeli to retaliate for attacks?
To speed up rebuilding, modernization and repairs of infrastructure, would you be willing to allow Israelis to safely work with palestinians in G and the WB?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being jewish to live within a palestinian state?
Would you allow other jews to live in a palestinian state if they became palestinians?
Would you allow jewish companies to operate within a palestinian state that would create jobs for palestinians?
Could you live in peace with the jewish state of Israel?

Why don't you just to condense it to:

Should the Palestinians surrender to Israel's colonialism?

because that is just islamonazi propaganda and shows you don't want a peaceful solution to the problem

 

[Lipush]

There will never be a peaceful resolution because the Jews believe the Zionist myth which says that somehow it was manifest destiny that allowed the Europeans to colonize Palestine. Much like the colonizing Europeans up to the late 20th century, they believe that the indigenous people have no right to the land they once owned and inhabited. Unfortunately, this results in the Jews negotiating from a false premise, which makes it impossible to arrive at a just compromise acceptable to the non-Jews.

*Our* ethos is a myth? LOL. Some nerve

 

[montelatici]

There will never be a peaceful resolution because the Jews believe the Zionist myth which says that somehow it was manifest destiny that allowed the Europeans to colonize Palestine. Much like the colonizing Europeans up to the late 20th century, they believe that the indigenous people have no right to the land they once owned and inhabited. Unfortunately, this results in the Jews negotiating from a false premise, which makes it impossible to arrive at a just compromise acceptable to the non-Jews.

*Our* ethos is a myth? LOL. Some nerve

Of course it's a myth. 99% of Palestine was inhabited by Christians and Muslims prior to the arrival of the European colonists. It wasn't empty as the Zionist myth would have others believe. Until the Israelis admit that they took the land from the indigenous people, how can there be a basis for negotiation?

 

[Coyote]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

Perhaps a vote.
Do you want a peace with the Israeli state?
Would you give up incitement and hate against Israel and accept it's right to exist?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in a Palestinians state?
Would you accept the the PA/Hamas disarming and leave only police as the law enforcement authorities?
Would you attempt to prevent or turn in potential terrorists to maintain a peace rather than force Israeli to retaliate for attacks?
To speed up rebuilding, modernization and repairs of infrastructure, would you be willing to allow Israelis to safely work with palestinians in G and the WB?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being jewish to live within a palestinian state?
Would you allow other jews to live in a palestinian state if they became palestinians?
Would you allow jewish companies to operate within a palestinian state that would create jobs for palestinians?
Could you live in peace with the jewish state of Israel?

Good questions - however answers and changes in attitude need to flow from both sides.

Would you give up incitement and hate against Palestinians and accept their right to a state?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in two independent states?
Are you willing to accept a state that controls it's own borders, treaties, airspace, resources, elections and coastline?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being Muslim to live within a Jewish state?
Would you allow other Muslims to live in a Jewish State if they became Israeli's?
Could you live in peace with a Palestinian state?

 

[aris2chat]

That's a very good direction, a constructive one, but the core issue starts with three main factors that condemns any progress.
List by the influence;
1.Incitement - Starting from side-interests, media control over populations, disinformation, and technically all third parties that are not directly involved but determine some sort of ideological hard lines.
2.Will - The Palestinians and Israelis (mostly the Palestinians by their leadership) have no will to conduct any progress while the common people are forced to suffer the tyranny.
3.Changing Atmosphere - Every few hours something new happens, all driven by the others, reaching a progress must be an absolute agreement that can only be signed mutually in a very specific time frame.

Perhaps a vote.
Do you want a peace with the Israeli state?
Would you give up incitement and hate against Israel and accept it's right to exist?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in a Palestinians state?
Would you accept the the PA/Hamas disarming and leave only police as the law enforcement authorities?
Would you attempt to prevent or turn in potential terrorists to maintain a peace rather than force Israeli to retaliate for attacks?
To speed up rebuilding, modernization and repairs of infrastructure, would you be willing to allow Israelis to safely work with palestinians in G and the WB?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being jewish to live within a palestinian state?
Would you allow other jews to live in a palestinian state if they became palestinians?
Would you allow jewish companies to operate within a palestinian state that would create jobs for palestinians?
Could you live in peace with the jewish state of Israel?

Good questions - however answers and changes in attitude need to flow from both sides.

Would you give up incitement and hate against Palestinians and accept their right to a state?
Are you willing to accept compromised agreement through negotiations that would result in two independent states?
Are you willing to accept a state that controls it's own borders, treaties, airspace, resources, elections and coastline?
Would you allow those of mixed marriage, one being Muslim to live within a Jewish state?
Would you allow other Muslims to live in a Jewish State if they became Israeli's?
Could you live in peace with a Palestinian state?

all those used to be true or in the process of being implemented before the intafada, except the actual state part, it was an authority.

Palestinians violence changed that.

Since the beginning, Israel as accepted muslims that were Israeli citizens, a quarter of the Israeli population are muslim.