Women say some rape victims should take blame - survey (UK)

[Kalam]

I think the verse you were looking for is this one

33:50. O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allâh has given to you, and the daughters of your 'Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your 'Ammah (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khâl (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khâlah (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her; a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (captives or slaves) whom their right hands possess, - in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Of course, we find here nothing that contradicts the requirement in Surah an-Nisa that bondage through nikah is a prerequisite for any type of sexual relations.

 

[Kalam]

What is the punishment for taking a non muslim woman under the rubric of Jihad and having her as a sex slave?

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Bring it up somewhere appropriate.

Well I beg to differ.

Nobody cares.

 

[goldcatt]

I think it's indicative of a mindset that still exists among some women that the burden of being the responsible party still lies primarily on their shoulders, especially in regards to issues involving sex. Plus, a prevailing attitude among those same women that men have a more difficult challenge containing their sexual urges.

I'd say there's something to the first part of your post. Women, after all, are the ones who hold both the risks and the rights when it comes to sex and its consequences. There's a certain level of responsibility that comes with it - or should.

But that responsibility ends the moment her freedom of choice does.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I think the verse you were looking for is this one

33:50. O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allâh has given to you, and the daughters of your 'Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your 'Ammah (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khâl (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khâlah (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her; a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (captives or slaves) whom their right hands possess, - in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Of course, we find here nothing that contradicts the requirement in Surah an-Nisa that bondage through nikah is a prerequisite for any type of sexual relations.

No , that is called willful blindness.
Any muslim boy can declare jihad and snatch a girl of the street as a plaything under Islam.
Nothing precludeds that.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

In France, the phenomenon of Muslim gang rape as punishment for non-veiling even has a word to describe it: "tournante" (take your turn). In areas where Muslims form the majority (i.e. the Muslim suburb of Courneuve, France), even non-Muslim women feel pressured to veil themselves in fear of Muslim sexual and physical punishment.

In the context of this epidemic of Muslim violence against women, and the open legitimization of it pronounced by Islamic clerics, one would think that the Western feminists of our time would be up in arms, sympathetically coming to the side of their raped sisters and standing up for women’s rights in general.

FrontPage Magazine - Muslim Rape, Feminist Silence
A quick google of rape jihad , will open the eyes of anyone who is interested.

 

[Kalam]

No , that is called willful blindness.

"Willful blindness" is what we call the attitude you've adopted toward your own abomination of a religion, whose inter-gender relations we may look into shortly if I feel up to giving you a lesson today.

Any muslim boy can declare jihad and snatch a girl of the street as a plaything under Islam.
Nothing precludeds that.

Forcing free people into slavery is forbidden.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: 1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. 2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, 3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' " - Sahih Bukhari, Sales and Trade, no. 430​

Sex with a person to whom you are not lawfully bound through nikah is forbidden in 4:25. You are an idiot.

 

[Kalam]

frontpagemag.com

 

[Modbert]

Well so much for that.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e5q6ubDlZE]YouTube - Chip N Dale Rescue Rangers Intro[/ame]

 

[WillowTree]

No , that is called willful blindness.

"Willful blindness" is what we call the attitude you've adopted toward your own abomination of a religion, whose inter-gender relations we may look into shortly if I feel up to giving you a lesson today.

Any muslim boy can declare jihad and snatch a girl of the street as a plaything under Islam.
Nothing precludeds that.

Forcing free people into slavery is forbidden.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: 1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. 2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, 3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' " - Sahih Bukhari, Sales and Trade, no. 430​

Sex with a person to whom you are not lawfully bound through nikah is forbidden in 4:25. You are an idiot.

No you are the idiot. You keep quoting what should be as opposed to what happens in reality. You don't fool anybody. Fool.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

No , that is called willful blindness.

"Willful blindness" is what we call the attitude you've adopted toward your own abomination of a religion, whose inter-gender relations we may look into shortly if I feel up to giving you a lesson today.

Any muslim boy can declare jihad and snatch a girl of the street as a plaything under Islam.
Nothing precludeds that.

Forcing free people into slavery is forbidden.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: 1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. 2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, 3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' " - Sahih Bukhari, Sales and Trade, no. 430​

Sex with a person to whom you are not lawfully bound through nikah is forbidden in 4:25. You are an idiot.

Really the Quran suggests taking slaves is part and parcel of Islam.

 

[Kalam]

Not only is rape most prevalent in Christian countries:
South Africa's Rape Crisis: 1 in 4 Men Say They've Done It - TIME

It is a favorite pastime of Christian clergymen:
BBC NEWS | Americas | Timeline: US Church sex scandal

Unlike Islam, there is absolutely nothing in Christian scripture that forbids the rape of a woman... unless a person takes Paul's advice and keeps celibate. But, hey, we all know that the Christian concept of "celibacy" allows room for the molestation of little altar boys. Is that what happened to you?

 

[Kalam]

No , that is called willful blindness.

"Willful blindness" is what we call the attitude you've adopted toward your own abomination of a religion, whose inter-gender relations we may look into shortly if I feel up to giving you a lesson today.

Any muslim boy can declare jihad and snatch a girl of the street as a plaything under Islam.
Nothing precludeds that.

Forcing free people into slavery is forbidden.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: 1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. 2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, 3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' " - Sahih Bukhari, Sales and Trade, no. 430​

Sex with a person to whom you are not lawfully bound through nikah is forbidden in 4:25. You are an idiot.

Really the Quran suggests taking slaves is part and parcel of Islam.

Thank you for demonstrating that you know nothing of the Qur'an. Captives may only be taken as prisoners of war, and that can only occur during times of war.

It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteous is the one who believes in Allah, and the Last Day, and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and gives away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask and to set slaves free and keeps up prayer and pays the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in the time of conflict. These are they who are truthful; and these are they who keep their duty. - 2:177​

Produce an equivalent verse from Christian scripture.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Man Jailed For Raping Teens In Back Of Car
5:50pm UK, Friday August 28, 2009
Michelle May, North of England correspondent
A 22-year-old man who raped two 13-year-old girls in his car after supplying them with alcohol has been jailed for 14 years.


Munshur Ali, from Hyde in Greater Manchester, asked his victims for directions and began chatting with them before offering the young girls a lift.
Ali drove the girls to an off licence in Stockport and bought them a bottle of vodka to drink.
He then took them to a church and raped the pair twice in the back of his car.

Munshur Ali Jailed For 14 Years For Rape Of Manchester Teenagers: Assaulted Girls In Back Of Car | UK News | Sky News

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

"Willful blindness" is what we call the attitude you've adopted toward your own abomination of a religion, whose inter-gender relations we may look into shortly if I feel up to giving you a lesson today.





Forcing free people into slavery is forbidden.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: 1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. 2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, 3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' " - Sahih Bukhari, Sales and Trade, no. 430​

Sex with a person to whom you are not lawfully bound through nikah is forbidden in 4:25. You are an idiot.

Really the Quran suggests taking slaves is part and parcel of Islam.

Thank you for demonstrating that you know nothing of the Qur'an. Captives may only be taken as prisoners of war, and that can only occur during times of war.

It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteous is the one who believes in Allah, and the Last Day, and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and gives away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask and to set slaves free and keeps up prayer and pays the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in the time of conflict. These are they who are truthful; and these are they who keep their duty. - 2:177​

Produce an equivalent verse from Christian scripture.

Any muslim can undertake Jihad.
Its an obligation.

 

[Kalam]

No you are the idiot. You keep quoting what should be as opposed to what happens in reality. You don't fool anybody. Fool.

I've demonstrated that Islam forbids rape and that "Muslims" who are guilty of the crime should be executed per Islamic law. I cannot possibly imagine what more you want of me, nor do I particularly care. I'd call you stupid, but I get the impression that you weren't dealt a full deck to begin with.

 

[Kalam]

Any muslim can undertake Jihad.
Its an obligation.

Jihad bil-sayf involves a concerted struggle by Muslims against an oppressive force. Please, show me an example of any authoritative Muslim scholar who believes that grabbing a random woman on the street and flagrantly violating Islamic law by raping her constitutes "jihad." Otherwise, fuck off and don't come back until you can show me an example of Christian scripture that forbids the taking of slaves.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

No you are the idiot. You keep quoting what should be as opposed to what happens in reality. You don't fool anybody. Fool.

I've demonstrated that Islam forbids rape and that "Muslims" who are guilty of the crime should be executed per Islamic law. I cannot possibly imagine what more you want of me, nor do I particularly care. I'd call you stupid, but I get the impression that you weren't dealt a full deck to begin with.

Well , thanks for helping reveal some of the finer points of Islam.

 

[Kalam]

bottle of vodka

Surely, you aren't stupid enough to believe that this incident can be used to draw conclusions about Islam.

 

[Kalam]

No you are the idiot. You keep quoting what should be as opposed to what happens in reality. You don't fool anybody. Fool.

I've demonstrated that Islam forbids rape and that "Muslims" who are guilty of the crime should be executed per Islamic law. I cannot possibly imagine what more you want of me, nor do I particularly care. I'd call you stupid, but I get the impression that you weren't dealt a full deck to begin with.

Well , thanks for helping reveal some of the finer points of Islam.

You've been given your instructions; you were shown to be wrong and told not to return until you can find me any single example of slavery being forbidden in Christian scripture. Why have you not done this? Have your efforts been as fruitless as your attempts to criticize Islam?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Any muslim can undertake Jihad.
Its an obligation.

Jihad bil-sayf involves a concerted struggle by Muslims against an oppressive force. Please, show me an example of any authoritative Muslim scholar who believes that grabbing a random woman on the street and flagrantly violating Islamic law by raping her constitutes "jihad." Otherwise, fuck off and don't come back until you can show me an example of Christian scripture that forbids the taking of slaves.

Its implied in the texture of Islam, It is part of the campaign of terror Islam thrives on.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

33:21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad ) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.


'Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
Allah's Messenger said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, perform the Prayer, and pay Zakah. If they do that, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
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Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I have been commanded to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but Allah, and he who professes it is guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for a right warrant, and his affairs rest with Allah.
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