Women protest Bush on the abortion Bill...

[Bern80]

Originally posted by Lizzy
Can we just leave it at we all have our own opinions!

It's not right to try and force your opinion onto someone else, just make your points known.

I don't how many more ways i can explain this. If some of you are content to maintain the notion that an opinion is just an opinion, why do you bother trying to change anything at all? Again, to me it sounds like you are saying

"this is what I think is right and the way things should be, but hey it's just my opinion, so no matter how shitty the world gets cause the other guy is doing something about his opinion, I'm just gonna sit with my thumb up my butt, cause hey, it's just my opinion and who am i to say?"

In your world everyone would voice their opinion, but absolutely nothing would ever get done because hey, it's just all opinions and we wouldn't want to force that on anybody would we? Quit being so damn afriad to offend people. Especially if you know in your heart that your opinion is right and their's is wrong. What is the point in coming to a message board like this if you are not willing to have opinions challenged? In your world everyone would state opinions to each other and we'd all just go "okay" and all thinking and reasoning would stop.

This is what the debate is about, voicing your opinions.

No, debate is about persuasion. There is even such a thing as competitive debate where the team with the most wll supported opinion is awarded. I don't come to this board to state an opinion and hope i am not challenged on it. I am here quite frankly to persuade people and convinve them that i am right

Being adult and grown up is being able to listen to someone else's viewpoints and then commenting.

That is exactley what i am doing.

When you start name calling you are placing yourself into a realm where no one wants to hear what you have to say anyway!
Not worth the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree, you will not persuade anybody of anything if you start name calling

 

[janeeng]

Originally posted by fuzzykitten99


"As far as the rape goes, as well as incest, etc., cases like that are special."

This means that there would be a possibility of making a case for abortion in rape/incest. This is a touchy subject, because the victim is already traumatized (my best friend was raped by her boyfriend, and has been in counseling for 3 years now) and most are likely in no mental state to care for another human being that needs 24 hour care. Although I would want to urge to have the child, but give the child to a couple who want to adopt. This certainly is something that would warrant more thought. I would understand though, if the victim would want to abort. [/B]

Don't you find this to be like a hypocrite? Your against Abortion, but not if it's by RAPE! If your against it, it should be against it all together, you yourself stated, adoption is another option.

I understand completely what Lizzy is saying - first of all - you make abortion illegal, think about this now - Not only do you have babies dying, but you have the mother's possibly dying as well, and why, because of desperation and going elsewhere to have it done.

Also - let's look at a Woman who finds out she is pregnant, and is excited about it, to learn that the child after being born, will have no life at all, due to some crazy illness, and it's out there - should this Mother then bring into this world a baby that really isn't living anyway? or a Mom who is at risk of dying herself?

The day I gave birth to my Daughter, in the next room was a Woman who also was giving birth to her Daughter, only problem, the Mom died on the table - yes, the baby lived, why, because the Mother chose her life over the babies, the doctors told the Mother that having this baby could cause the life of her own - yes I applaud her for doing what she thought was right, but in the end, here is a child, with no Mother and a Father with no wife - could there have been another way, maybe! Oh by the way, the child was born retarded too, so you tell me, was it really worth it? Had the woman have made a different choice, and unfortanately, that did mean giving up this baby, she would have gotten the treatment she needed, instead of passing along the problems and could have tried later on, all could have lived then!

To also call someone stupid, or not old enough to understand is a bit ridiculous as well - we do all have our opinions, and rather than bash someone's opions, or feel we are more superior than someone else, take their opion as just that, an opinion! there is no need for childish comments either!!! it shows you yourself must not be old enough either to appreciate another persons opinion, even if it means you don't agree!

 

[Lizzy]

Originally posted by Bern80

No, debate is about persuasion. There is even such a thing as competitive debate where the team with the most wll supported opinion is awarded. I don't come to this board to state an opinion and hope i am not challenged on it. I am here quite frankly to persuade people and convinve them that i am right

Read the definiton of OPINION:


Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
- opin·ioned /-y&nd/ adjective
synonyms OPINION, VIEW, BELIEF, CONVICTION, PERSUASION, SENTIMENT mean a judgment one holds as true. OPINION implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute <each expert seemed to have a different opinion>. VIEW suggests a subjective opinion <very assertive in stating his views>. BELIEF implies often deliberate acceptance and intellectual assent <a firm belief in her party's platform>. CONVICTION applies to a firmly and seriously held belief <the conviction that animal life is as sacred as human>. PERSUASION suggests a belief grounded on assurance (as by evidence) of its truth <was of the persuasion that everything changes>. SENTIMENT suggests a settled opinion reflective of one's feelings <her feminist sentiments are well-known>.

So according to the definition of opinion, it is also a persuasion, view, belief and so on.
So therefore, a debate is also based on opinions.

I'm not here to force people to believe what I feel is right. I do know what is right in my belief and quite honestly there aren't too many on here that I would care if they changed their mind or not.

I've stated my view and quite honestly, I'm done with this thread - I have found it interesting but quite obnoxious in the fact that everyone seems to pick out parts of others post and attacks them on one statement vs. listening to the whole. Not saying you , since you do address every point which is well noted.
No one wants to listen and discuss - they just want to dictate. I'm not wasting my time anymore!

 

[Bern80]

Originally posted by Lizzy
Read the definiton of OPINION:


Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
- opin·ioned /-y&nd/ adjective
synonyms OPINION, VIEW, BELIEF, CONVICTION, PERSUASION, SENTIMENT mean a judgment one holds as true. OPINION implies a conclusion thought out yet open to dispute <each expert seemed to have a different opinion>. VIEW suggests a subjective opinion <very assertive in stating his views>. BELIEF implies often deliberate acceptance and intellectual assent <a firm belief in her party's platform>. CONVICTION applies to a firmly and seriously held belief <the conviction that animal life is as sacred as human>. PERSUASION suggests a belief grounded on assurance (as by evidence) of its truth <was of the persuasion that everything changes>. SENTIMENT suggests a settled opinion reflective of one's feelings <her feminist sentiments are well-known>.

So according to the definition of opinion, it is also a persuasion, view, belief and so on.
So therefore, a debate is also based on opinions.

I'm not here to force people to believe what I feel is right. I do know what is right in my belief and quite honestly there aren't too many on here that I would care if they changed their mind or not.

I've stated my view and quite honestly, I'm done with this thread - I have found it interesting but quite obnoxious in the fact that everyone seems to pick out parts of others post and attacks them on one statement vs. listening to the whole. Not saying you , since you do address every point which is well noted.
No one wants to listen and discuss - they just want to dictate. I'm not wasting my time anymore!

Quite honestly i didn't think the thread would last this long. Especially on an issue where it is very hard to change someone's mind.

If there is one thing I wanted people to get out of my last few posts is that you shouldn't feel that it is wrong of you to fight for what you believe in/opinion. Especially, if you believe it is right and will make the world a better place to be.

 

[fuzzykitten99]

Originally posted by janeeng
Don't you find this to be like a hypocrite? Your against Abortion, but not if it's by RAPE! If your against it, it should be against it all together, you yourself stated, adoption is another option.

I understand completely what Lizzy is saying - first of all - you make abortion illegal, think about this now - Not only do you have babies dying, but you have the mother's possibly dying as well, and why, because of desperation and going elsewhere to have it done.

Also - let's look at a Woman who finds out she is pregnant, and is excited about it, to learn that the child after being born, will have no life at all, due to some crazy illness, and it's out there - should this Mother then bring into this world a baby that really isn't living anyway? or a Mom who is at risk of dying herself?

The day I gave birth to my Daughter, in the next room was a Woman who also was giving birth to her Daughter, only problem, the Mom died on the table - yes, the baby lived, why, because the Mother chose her life over the babies, the doctors told the Mother that having this baby could cause the life of her own - yes I applaud her for doing what she thought was right, but in the end, here is a child, with no Mother and a Father with no wife - could there have been another way, maybe! Oh by the way, the child was born retarded too, so you tell me, was it really worth it? Had the woman have made a different choice, and unfortanately, that did mean giving up this baby, she would have gotten the treatment she needed, instead of passing along the problems and could have tried later on, all could have lived then!

To also call someone stupid, or not old enough to understand is a bit ridiculous as well - we do all have our opinions, and rather than bash someone's opions, or feel we are more superior than someone else, take their opion as just that, an opinion! there is no need for childish comments either!!! it shows you yourself must not be old enough either to appreciate another persons opinion, even if it means you don't agree!

OMG...here we go again. Obviously you haven't read anything I have posted. Are you that dense? I have typed this already, and this will be the last time.

In EXTREME cases such as rape, mother's health danger (ectopic pregnancy etc.) as well as deformity that is detected, then that is one thing. It is TOTALLY different if the couple had CONSENSUAL sex, and they got pregnant because they were careless.

The difference in the woman dying while giving birth and an abortion is that the baby was full or near full term. Even if the child was premature, they would have not risked the life of the mother by inducing.

My best friend's sister found she was pregnant at the same time she found she had a benign cyst that would have endangered the baby's life, and she would have miscarried. She chose to abort because the child would have been still-born had she continued. She was in her 2nd trimester. That is an extreme case.

If you had a 13 yr old get raped and get pregnant, would you force her to have the child...I don't think so. I would try to see maybe if she would carry full term, then give the baby up for adoption.

There are other alternatives. Abortion in consensual cases is just avoiding responsibility for actions, where it could have been prevented in the first place.

Will you get over yourself, and pay attention to the post content. I feel like a broken record. I will not post anymore on this because no one on the 'other side' can seem to pay attention to what IS posted. It gets old fast.