With current economic situation today...

[Diuretic]

We don't need a communist revolution.

WE need a return to the principles upon which this nation thrived during the first 70 years of the XXth century.

That isn't going to happen. The US isn't in charge of the agenda any longer. The American Century has finished. It's not so much a New World Order so beloved by the tinfoil hat brigade as an understanding that the world has changed and it's not going back to the old model. The winners are going to be those who can adapt.

 

[editec]

That isn't going to happen. The US isn't in charge of the agenda any longer. The American Century has finished. It's not so much a New World Order so beloved by the tinfoil hat brigade as an understanding that the world has changed and it's not going back to the old model.

Sadly, I suspect that you are right.

Why?

Partially because we lack the political will (or sophistication, is probably a better wrod) to change, and partially because the system is bent so in favor of the ruling class as it is now changing, that even if we get the vast majority of people to wake up, I think the ruling class have enough power to prevent that collective will from finding a way to express itself in the real world.

The winners are going to be those who can adapt.

Yes, the quislings will always salute whatever flag is flying, no doubt about that.

 

[Diuretic]

Sadly, I suspect that you are right.

Why?

Partially because we lack the political will (or sophistication, is probably a better wrod) to change, and partially because the system is bent so in favor of the ruling class as it is now changing, that even if we get the vast majority of people to wake up, I think the ruling class have enough power to prevent that collective will from finding a way to express itself in the real world.



Yes, the quislings will always salute whatever flag is flying, no doubt about that.

The wealthy and the powerful (probably the same) will always do okay.

The beauty about the American Century was that the old order was destroyed. In Europe WWI began the dismantling of the old class-ridden order. WWII was the finale.

You only have to look closely at British society and trace its development from the end of WWI to the 1950s to see the huge changes that were made to that society. And if you cast a critical eye you can see that the influence of America's more relaxed democratic society (as opposed to the rigid class-system in pre-WWII Britain) had a huge influence. I would think that without the privations of WWII and without the mind-opening influence of America that the post-WWII Attlee government in Britain couldn't have instituted their necessary socialist programme.

My point is that radical social change is only ever the result of a crisis. Whether it be a World War or an internal revolution, we humans seem to need to undergo massive trauma before we understand we have to change, to do things differently that what we did before.

 

[Charles_Main]

Social security, Medicade, Medicare, Public Schools, Public Police and Fire, Etc Etc. I would say we already have a good mix of socialism and Capitolism.

 

[Toro]

Social security, Medicade, Medicare, Public Schools, Public Police and Fire, Etc Etc. I would say we already have a good mix of socialism and Capitolism.

All economies in the industrialized world are mixed economies. The only question is degree. In America, about a third of spending is by the government, of which ~4% of GDP is defense. In France, its nearly half.

 

[editec]

The wealthy and the powerful (probably the same) will always do okay.

The beauty about the American Century was that the old order was destroyed. In Europe WWI began the dismantling of the old class-ridden order. WWII was the finale.

You only have to look closely at British society and trace its development from the end of WWI to the 1950s to see the huge changes that were made to that society. And if you cast a critical eye you can see that the influence of America's more relaxed democratic society (as opposed to the rigid class-system in pre-WWII Britain) had a huge influence. I would think that without the privations of WWII and without the mind-opening influence of America that the post-WWII Attlee government in Britain couldn't have instituted their necessary socialist programme.

My point is that radical social change is only ever the result of a crisis. Whether it be a World War or an internal revolution, we humans seem to need to undergo massive trauma before we understand we have to change, to do things differently that what we did before.

Hmmmm... very astute observations.

Not so sure why the Brits changed, but its an interesting theory, either way.

 

[editec]

Social security, Medicade, Medicare, Public Schools, Public Police and Fire, Etc Etc. I would say we already have a good mix of socialism and Capitolism.

I agree

Now all we have to do is remember how to finance them.

We seem to have fogotten that formula in our rush to run government like it was a business.

 

[editec]

All economies in the industrialized world are mixed economies. The only question is degree. In America, about a third of spending is by the government, of which ~4% of GDP is defense. In France, its nearly half.

That, of course assumes that the government really has a handle on what is being made and where it is going.

That is, to put it mildly, something of a stretch.

The IRS admits that the underground economy is vast, and they also admit (sotto voce, of course) that the truly stupendously wealthy pretty much report whatever they know they have to and disregard the rest.

I'm not disputing the vality of your figures, of course.

They are the best that we can actually do given the fact that people lie like rugs.

 

[solari]

To sit and p**s and moan about high gas prices does no good..we have people stealing gas out of tankers and private owned cars..that's sad and pathetic..it recently happened to us..we spent our last dime so my Partner would have gas to go to work..she wasn't going to get paid until the following day so that gas had to last her two days..someone decided it was their right to steal our last drop of gas..so my Partner had to go in over 3 1/2 hours late..so our best friend could take her to get gas..which she loaned us the money to keep it from happening again she bought us and herself a locking gas cap..a few days later we found scratches on our car where someone attempted to force the cap off..well, a few nights later we got our revenge I wont say how, but a few days after that we saw a couple of teenagers stomping around and whimpering about their no longer working car..all they kept saying was "we can't afford to get it fixed or buy a new one what are we gonna do" we knew then who stole our gas and they paid more then we did for it!!

There was the great American gas out which few went along with coz the ones who have more money see it as a inconvenience while those of us barely making ends meet see it as a catastrophe so the gas and oil companies felt no pain...my Partner use to pay $25 to fill our tank..now she pays closer to $55..she gets paid every two weeks..so it comes down to fill the gas tank so we can pay bills and feed our little ones..or feed us..we eat less..while the gas and oil companies eat the rest...we drive our little cavalier to the pump and get about $5 worth of gas (barely 1 gallon) while some Guy next to us fills first his boat then his suv then drives off happy as a lark with no thought to those of us who can't afford these prices....sadly that's the way it's always been here in the US big people think nothing of the little people until they start to feel the nibbles on their butts and even then they wont think about the poor or working class just themselves, one of my Partners Friends was belly aching about how his business is suffering he sells Vans, buses, SUVs, and the larger cars he actually had to sell his boat only after he sold his boat did he feel the effects of the gas prices, as long as they allow this to happen it will get worse...there are so many ways we can fight back..stop buying gas, take the bus, walk, ride a bicycle, get a scooter or a motorcycle..yes even though those last two options need gas they need alot less gas..push the Government to start drilling here and stop sending our money overseas..even those aren't sure fire options sadly Motorcycle, Scooter, bicycle dealers will raise their prices...so will the bus companies, but that wont be for awhile..if we are lucky!!

 

[Toro]

Paul you must be blind to reality, if you think all these rich people got that way through so-called hardwork you're out of your mind. Some have used exploitation and corruption to get to their position, socialism was created to stop such people from controlling the wealth of a nation for this very reason.

I'm sure some have become rich through exploitation and corruption. Most, however, have not.

 

[TopGunna]

Here's a nice chart that illustrates what capitalism has done for America:

We're better off on every single one of those metrics. "But what about the poor?"

How dare we exploit a group of people so, manipulating them into buying modern appliances that do nothing to improve their lives.

Sorry, but capitalism isn't the expropriation of wealth, it's wealth creation. People choose to consume because the value of the consumable exceeds their cost to obtain it. If an Iphone is worth $300 in your eyes, and you purchase it for $200, you're better off than before. Your total internalized value is up $100.

Now do people make foolish decisions with their own wealth? Absolutely. People do choose to consume luxuries beyond their means; but the producers of that product are not at fault. As cool as Mac's commercials make the Iphone seem, people still have the freedom to say, "No, I don't need to buy one." If people choose to be victimized by social pressures to consume, that's their own fault.

The argument boils down to the socialist belief that people are too stupid to control their own wealth and spending habits, and therefore the government should intervene. I have to disagree.

 

[AllieBaba]

Yeah, we should just look at what roaring success Europe is having with socialism.

This thread is a load of crap.