Wisconsin public sector workers under compensated

[Wry Catcher]

What happens when taxpayers protest in 5 to 1 numbers against the union? What happens when we really hear the voice of the people?

You forget or ignore a simple fact. Union members and government empoyees are taxpayers/people too.

What happends when one side is pitted against another? Violence, riots, general strikes and chaos.

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

 

[LordBrownTrout]

What happens when taxpayers protest in 5 to 1 numbers against the union? What happens when we really hear the voice of the people?

You forget or ignore a simple fact. Union members and government empoyees are taxpayers/people too.

What happends when one side is pitted against another? Violence, riots, general strikes and chaos.

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

I didn't forget or ignore anything nor am I inferring violence. I am, however, using sound reasoning as the numbers reflect against the protestors in huge numbers. That occurred at the ballot.

 

[Wry Catcher]

If they are under compensated, then they need to find another job that will compensate them for what they believe they are worth.

The state can only pay what it can pay.

If 'they' are under compensated 'they' should organize and demand from their employer fair and equitable compensation, a rising tide lifts everyone.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What happens when taxpayers protest in 5 to 1 numbers against the union? What happens when we really hear the voice of the people?

You forget or ignore a simple fact. Union members and government empoyees are taxpayers/people too.

What happends when one side is pitted against another? Violence, riots, general strikes and chaos.

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

I didn't forget or ignore anything nor am I inferring violence. I am, however, using sound reasoning as the numbers reflect against the protestors in huge numbers. That occurred at the ballot.

I didn't infer you implied violence; I simply answered the question you asked. Remember, envy is one of the deadly sins.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

You forget or ignore a simple fact. Union members and government empoyees are taxpayers/people too.

What happends when one side is pitted against another? Violence, riots, general strikes and chaos.

"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

I didn't forget or ignore anything nor am I inferring violence. I am, however, using sound reasoning as the numbers reflect against the protestors in huge numbers. That occurred at the ballot.

I didn't infer you implied violence; I simply answered the question you asked. Remember, envy is one of the deadly sins.

That's cool....but what about that envy comment? Are you trying to be abrasive in a nice way?

 

[whitehall]

Remember this for future reference. Demonstrators in Wisconson are carrying signs showing a photo of the republican governor with crosshairs on his forehead.

 

[McDowell's]

If they are under compensated, then they need to find another job that will compensate them for what they believe they are worth.

The state can only pay what it can pay.

If 'they' are under compensated 'they' should organize and demand from their employer fair and equitable compensation, a rising tide lifts everyone.

Unless you can't swim. Then you drown.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Press Releases | News from EPI: EPI study finds, Wisconsin public-sector workers under-compensated


A new Economic Policy Institute study released this week finds that full-time state and local government employees in Wisconsin are undercompensated by 8.2%, when compared to otherwise similar private-sector workers. By using a comprehensive database that is updated monthly by the U.S. Census Bureau and Bureau of Labor Statistics, the study provides an accurate comparison of public- and private-sector compensation in Wisconsin.

The analysis, Are Wisconsin Public Employees Over-compensated? by Labor and Employment Relations Professor Jeffrey Keefe of Rutgers University, controls for education, experience, hours of work, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity, experience, citizenship and disability. The study uses data collected primarily from the National Compensation Survey, and in accordance with standard survey practice, focuses on year-round, full-time public and private-sector employees.

As it should be. Most (if not all) government jobs should pay below the private-sector.

except the Letter Carrier....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Why?

Because their benefits package is better. Oh, and, because they're generally less efficient than private sector employees.

except the Letter Carrier....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Look, I know the vast majority of government workers couldn't hold a job in the real world, but maybe they can be retrained to be useful.

For the most part, government work is nothing more than welfare.

give me a fucking break.....come on down to the PO Un....lets see you get your productive ass on a route ....put it up and carry it in the time they want.....and then ill watch you do it in a fucking rainstorm with a nice cold wind.....or even better yet in a snowstorm...if i couldnt hold a job in the "real" world then i know dam well you could never carry a route....

 

[JWBooth]

The state of Wisconsin can't afford it....what else needs to be said?

But but but but.........they're entiiiiiiiiiiiiiitled to it!!!!!

Getting paid for doing a job is a pretty American principle

Getting paid to do a job then posting all day on an internet message board, where is the principle in that?

 

[xsited1]

If they are under compensated, then they need to find another job that will compensate them for what they believe they are worth.

The state can only pay what it can pay.

If 'they' are under compensated 'they' should organize and demand from their employer fair and equitable compensation, a rising tide lifts everyone.

Except when the employer is broke.

 

[Harry Dresden]

TDM, public worker's have a good benefit package when hired on, people like these jobs because of the security that comes with the job. There are unions that go with a lot of the public sector jobs. That means when they retire, they get a very generous retirement package, not just SS. Taxpayers are flippin' the bill on the retirement for the most part, and is based on their salary when they worked. So they do quite well, and maybe even better than the private sector, when all said and done.

are you talking from experience?....just askin....

 

[Wry Catcher]

I didn't forget or ignore anything nor am I inferring violence. I am, however, using sound reasoning as the numbers reflect against the protestors in huge numbers. That occurred at the ballot.

I didn't infer you implied violence; I simply answered the question you asked. Remember, envy is one of the deadly sins.

That's cool....but what about that envy comment? Are you trying to be abrasive in a nice way?

No. It was not directed at you, it's another way to look at the issue. The focus on union employees and government employees has been made an issue by those who hope to benefit personally using rhetoric to divide and conquer the working class, by inciting those whose wages and benefits are depressed against those whose wages and benefits are not.
My ire is not focused on those who work at jobs without union protection, but at those who pit neighbors against neighbors.
My fear is the battle against the plutocrats will be lost, the middle class will continue to shrink, college will once again be the province of the wealthy and our technological lead will be lost.

 

[Jackson]

The protestors are protesting illegally. Anyone without a medical claim will be in trouble. What makes this thing funny, is the Democrat Senators are not showing up for the vote. Great representatives for the people, aren't they? The police are out looking for them. They are in hiding.

Fire the SOB's! Naturally, the president is in the protestors and Senator's ??? favor? He showed up when Senator but voted "present." Same difference I guess.

The country is in trouble. We all have to give up something. Even teachers.

 

[Wry Catcher]

If they are under compensated, then they need to find another job that will compensate them for what they believe they are worth.

The state can only pay what it can pay.

If 'they' are under compensated 'they' should organize and demand from their employer fair and equitable compensation, a rising tide lifts everyone.

Except when the employer is broke.

Of course, and that means a competent employer will open a business with a better business plan. For if a market exists, a competent entrepreneur will find a way to make a profit as well as hire and keep happy competent employees.

 

[Wry Catcher]

States can and do contract with employees on regular schedules. Because of the ecomomic 'crash', less revenue is available and pension funds lost billions. Of course adjustments need to be made, but across the board, not focused on one sector of the economy.
That however is the plan of the GOP, or at least the GOP which has pandered to the reactionary forces of the far right.

 

[Big Fitz]

Freedom to pursue happiness includes grouping together to get a better deal.

well look for the union label!

Two small facts here.

Your right to group together does NOT give you the right to take from others against their will.

And also, public sector unions negotiate unfairly, because they do not negotiate WITH the party paying them: the tax payers, but a third party representative that feels no financial repercussions if they do a poor job. In fact, if the representatives are crooked enough, they gain because the unions will buy elections to keep them in power.

I would concede to having public sector unions if they were only given contracts and raises through public referendum and reduce their benefits to equal that of the private industry average.

You forget yourself Truthie. Your rights do not extend to anyone else's wallet but your own and what you earn in honest trade.

WEAC has been abusing this third party negotiating system for decades. It is time they were ended as the corrupt entity they became.

The taxpayers are represented by elected officials who appoint or hire someone to represent the agency, city, county or state in labor negotiations, this is the essence of a republic. Ultimately, the elected officials sign off and approve the final settlement in the budget.
Referandums are a form of direct democracy, something feared or revered depending, generally, on the issue at hand.

and, as I pointed out, what is to be done when the representatives have been discovered to be co-opted by the process and negotiating in bad faith?

This has obviously been the case for decades, and needs to be stopped.

 

[Big Fitz]

States can and do contract with employees on regular schedules. Because of the ecomomic 'crash', less revenue is available and pension funds lost billions. Of course adjustments need to be made, but across the board, not focused on one sector of the economy.
That however is the plan of the GOP, or at least the GOP which has pandered to the reactionary forces of the far right.

Only one sector? The private sector has been getting it's haircut for a long time now... since 2008 or so. That said, the public sector has not only avoided painful contractions, it has GROWN in 90% of the cases. Now it is time for the public sector t contract, and these hypocritical dimbulbs think they should be exempt from paying the piper.

That shit don't fly.

 

[Rozman]

Ask Grover Norquist what their real aim is.

The leadership of the right wants to kill the governmnet of this country.

They want to replace it with a government run by them that pushes the American income down to equal the rest of the worlds.


Its how they get you into the new world order plan where the Corps can play American workers just like they play the ones in any thrid world country.


You help them by supporting insane things like stripping workers of bargaining rights and screaming about unions.

Well it took you a while to figure it out......As long as you haven't figured out our secret hand shake yet all is well.

How about Obama running up our debt into the tens of trillions of dollars before he's done with saving America....

How do you feel about that?