Wisconsin....politically, who wins??

[skookerasbil]

Im laughing...........is it not clear which board members on this thread have the political IQ's of a case of handball's?? They'd have you thinking its really possible to pick up a piece of dog doo from the clean end!!!


Let me put it this way............anybody who thinks even for a brief moment that regular Americans have any sympathy for Wisconsin union members definately has a plate in their head.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Your health insurance cost examples don't count because they can't buy from them...

<<SNIP>>

If they can buy insurance from competitive carriers (like the examples you give) they can save the taxpayers MILLIONS...

The example I provided, and linked to, was the Milwaukee Metropolitan School District, 5225 West Vliet Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 53208.


>>>>

That may be one of the districts that don't have to buy from WEA trust...

 

[WorldWatcher]

That may be one of the districts that don't have to buy from WEA trust...

I have no problem with the insurance career being of function of the employer requiring a competitive bid process and the requirements for public review of responses to RFP's.

However, that does not address the sourcing of (supposedly) $39,500 in "average" benefits to be added to the BLS figures of average salary of $50,000 to arrive at $89,500 for average comp and benefits that some are using.


>>>>

 

[NYcarbineer]

Easy, the GOP does.

You've got hundreds of millions of people watching this. Many of them, almost 20%, are either unemployed or underemployed. Another 25% or so haven't gotten cola raises or any raises in years, or had to take pay cuts to stay employed. They know the economy sucks.

And they're watching 30,000 union members who average $89,500 a year falsifying gov't documents to skip work to whine about their work status? They arent getting laid off. They are well paid. And they're marching?

The public at large is sick of them. It's gonna cause a backlash against the left, well, for the few that still support the left after Obama.

After this, ONLY the radical, far left delusional Dem's will vote Dem.

And the GOP wins because, well, they're doing exactly what they got elected to do. Massive gov't debt scares people. We've woken up to this fact. And seeing the GOP actually cutting spending is proof that we need to vote them in more often.

Quit lying about their compensation. Show a bit of dignity for once in your wretched excuse for a life.

The unions already won the public opinion battle in Wisconsin when they agreed to the benefits concessions Walker demanded.

Me? Dignity?

I'm NOT lying about their compensation. The avg salary of a Wisconsin teacher is $50,000. Their benefits package is valued at $39,500. Their total compensation package, thus, totals $89,500. It's hard concrete numbers. Look it up. I did. And I don't do your research for you, so get started.

Wisconsin teacher salaries when adjusted for inflation have fallen 6.8% in the last 10 years. 97 to 08.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

That may be one of the districts that don't have to buy from WEA trust...

I have no problem with the insurance career being of function of the employer requiring a competitive bid process and the requirements for public review of responses to RFP's.

However, that does not address the sourcing of (supposedly) $39,500 in "average" benefits to be added to the BLS figures of average salary of $50,000 to arrive at $89,500 for average comp and benefits that some are using.


>>>>

I don't know where that figure came from but if some school districts can save six figures the first year they get away from the union-mandated WEA Trust.... it doesn't seem unlikely that WEA Trust costs are close to double....even if somewhat less... that is the very essence of a scam...

 

[konradv]

Just sort of curious to the forum sentiment as far as the political fallout nationwide..............

Of course, a necessary preface is that the last two years have seen disasterous levels of unemployment in the private sector and a massive growth in the public sector while union employees continue to pay nothing for their retirement and medical.

So..........who wins here? Which party?

In the short run Reps, but in the long run people are going to get upset, if long-held benefits, benefits also enjoyed by non-union workers, are curtailed. This isn't about the money now, but an underhanded power grab.

Hey komrad...there is nothing "underhanded" about it...it's direct and in your face...the Republicans overwhelmingly won Wisconsin fair and square....they are reflecting the Voice of The People.....sucks to be you....

WOOHOOO, another of those brainiacs that thinks they were the first to put an 'm' in my name. It IS underhanded because they're talking about finance when it's really about stripping them of rights they've had for 50 years. Don't think you fool me, jackass. Political boards are filled with mental midgets like you.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I don't know where that figure came from but if some school districts can save six figures the first year they get away from the union-mandated WEA Trust.... it doesn't seem unlikely that WEA Trust costs are close to double....even if somewhat less... that is the very essence of a scam...

Again I have no issue with requiring a competitive bid as a measure to control costs.

When people engage in discussions instead of hyperbole things can be achieved. When the governor achieves the cost savings desired (Pension contributions + Benefits Payments) but still insists on busting the union and on the other side the unions protesting in the streets in an apparent illegal work stoppage. Then progress can be made, or at least is should be.


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[8537]

Just sort of curious to the forum sentiment as far as the political fallout nationwide..............

Of course, a necessary preface is that the last two years have seen disasterous levels of unemployment in the private sector and a massive growth in the public sector while union employees continue to pay nothing for their retirement and medical.

So..........who wins here? Which party?

There has not been a "massive growth in the public sector" - in fact, total public sector employment has declined in the past year, and has declined by almost 400,000 since Obama took office.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

In the short run Reps, but in the long run people are going to get upset, if long-held benefits, benefits also enjoyed by non-union workers, are curtailed. This isn't about the money now, but an underhanded power grab.

Hey komrad...there is nothing "underhanded" about it...it's direct and in your face...the Republicans overwhelmingly won Wisconsin fair and square....they are reflecting the Voice of The People.....sucks to be you....

WOOHOOO, another of those brainiacs that thinks they were the first to put an 'm' in my name. It IS underhanded because they're talking about finance when it's really about stripping them of rights they've had for 50 years. Don't think you fool me, jackass. Political boards are filled with mental midgets like you.

what you really mean is your leftie news media is only telling you half the story....but go on believing the propaganda per usual....not gonna make a difference this time around...The People who kicked out your dimwit butts don't fall for it anymore....

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I don't know where that figure came from but if some school districts can save six figures the first year they get away from the union-mandated WEA Trust.... it doesn't seem unlikely that WEA Trust costs are close to double....even if somewhat less... that is the very essence of a scam...

Again I have no issue with requiring a competitive bid as a measure to control costs.

When people engage in discussions instead of hyperbole things can be achieved. When the governor achieves the cost savings desired (Pension contributions + Benefits Payments) but still insists on busting the union and on the other side the unions protesting in the streets in an apparent illegal work stoppage. Then progress can be made, or at least is should be.


>>>>

Progress IS being made......or don't you get the bigger picture yet.....? The Gov. is busting back (not destroying) the union because they are perpetrating an insurance scam...something that is bleeding the citizens of Wisconsin dry....plus the union has an unfair advantage over the teachers because they must pay the union dues.....busting the union down some will allow teachers in the future to CHOOSE whether or not to join the union.....i've heard that at least one third of all the Wisconsin teachers are Republican....being forced to pay for Democrat politics is certainly not fair to them...

 

[Dr.Traveler]

To the OP:

Short term: GOP. The Democrats are pretty much carrying out the Tea Party goals by shutting down government, so there's that. Plus, State Senators aren't like Senators at the Federal Level. Theses guys are often local businessmen with vested interests back in Wisconsin they need to get back to. They can't hold out indefinitely, and once they come back it's over.

In 2012: The GOP. It's likely what's happening in Wisconsin to the public sector unions will spread. Once other Unions are weakened, Democrats will see one of their major monetary competitors vanish, while Corporations, which lean heavily towards the GOP, will be stronger. That means that the GOP is likely to have the upper hand in the campaign finance part of the show, which is a really hard advantage to blow in the general.

Add to that the fact that when the government attacks teachers, parents get sympathetic. When the Teachers strike, everyone turns on the teachers. I think the teachers in Wisconsin are justified in their fight here, but the public opinion is turning on them fast.

Long run: Nobody wins. Things like this make teaching in the public schools less attractive, which means fewer quality teaching candidates, which means less new blood, which means less innovation, which means a continued decline in the public schools ability to address recent technological innovations. Folks interested in teaching will probably now flock to the college level or to the private schools. If the public schools are the only other option, many will take up jobs in the private sector.

This goes past teachers too. The less attractive government jobs become, the less likely skilled people will go into those areas. That doesn't sound that bad to a Conservative at first, but consider that the SEC has a really hard time policing Wall Street because anyone skilled at understanding the market is heading out into the market to collect a fortune. And that's just one example. You have whole sectors of the government dedicated to public health, safety, or national defense that already have a hard time attracting skilled workers. As you weaken the public sectors, things ripple out into the private.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Long run: Nobody wins. Things like this make teaching in the public schools less attractive, which means fewer quality teaching candidates, which means less new blood, which means less innovation, which means a continued decline in the public schools ability to address recent technological innovations. Folks interested in teaching will probably now flock to the college level or to the private schools. If the public schools are the only other option, many will take up jobs in the private sector

Wrong....people who really want to be good teachers will continue to do so...the deadweights will pass....and with less oppressive unions teachers will be freed to become more innovative as well as more traditional if that fills the bill...and parents will probably be much more delighted with the results compared to the dismal results they now receive...

This goes past teachers too. The less attractive government jobs become, the less likely skilled people will go into those areas. That doesn't sound that bad to a Conservative at first, but consider that the SEC has a really hard time policing Wall Street because anyone skilled at understanding the market is heading out into the market to collect a fortune. And that's just one example. You have whole sectors of the government dedicated to public health, safety, or national defense that already have a hard time attracting skilled workers. As you weaken the public sectors, things ripple out into the private.

Good...we need less government workers...government is far too bloated as it is....

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Wrong....people who really want to be good teachers will continue to do so...the deadweights will pass....and with less oppressive unions teachers will be freed to become more innovative as well as more traditional if that fills the bill...and parents will probably be much more delighted with the results compared to the dismal results they now receive...

We'll see. Teachers have families too. It doesn't matter how much they want to teach, or how good they are. Once they start having kids, they have to pay the bills. If the work environment is deteriorating and the pay isn't there, then they'll leave.

As it is, burnout is a pretty serious issue for new teachers. I don't see what's happening really addressing that or helping that issue.

At this point, it's speculation on both our parts. But I don't see stripping teachers of some of their collective bargaining powers or making the job pay less as a way of making the job more attractive to skilled and intelligent young minds.

Good...we need less government workers...government is far too bloated as it is....

I'd love an SEC that was a 100 times larger if they could have caught the derivatives market before it helped crash the economy. When the private sector pays more, the skilled minds head that way. The worse public employment becomes, the less effective things like the IRS will become at catching tax cheats, the less effective that the DA's office will become at obtaining convictions, etc.

If you want to cut bloat, fine. But you get the government you're willing to pay for. Dont' complain when government continues to become less and less effective as you make government employment less and less attractive.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Wrong....people who really want to be good teachers will continue to do so...the deadweights will pass....and with less oppressive unions teachers will be freed to become more innovative as well as more traditional if that fills the bill...and parents will probably be much more delighted with the results compared to the dismal results they now receive...

We'll see. Teachers have families too. It doesn't matter how much they want to teach, or how good they are. Once they start having kids, they have to pay the bills. If the work environment is deteriorating and the pay isn't there, then they'll leave.

As it is, burnout is a pretty serious issue for new teachers. I don't see what's happening really addressing that or helping that issue.

At this point, it's speculation on both our parts. But I don't see stripping teachers of some of their collective bargaining powers or making the job pay less as a way of making the job more attractive to skilled and intelligent young minds.

Good...we need less government workers...government is far too bloated as it is....

I'd love an SEC that was a 100 times larger if they could have caught the derivatives market before it helped crash the economy. When the private sector pays more, the skilled minds head that way. The worse public employment becomes, the less effective things like the IRS will become at catching tax cheats, the less effective that the DA's office will become at obtaining convictions, etc.

If you want to cut bloat, fine. But you get the government you're willing to pay for. Dont' complain when government continues to become less and less effective as you make government employment less and less attractive.

You're right....we can argue ad nauseum about those topics.....but today we are BROKE...and the bottom line is government cuts must be made...not only in Wisconsin, but in other states and nationally as well...