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Straw man. The antennas were the first things hit.I don't buy Israel's excuse but I've been equally disgusted with LBJ and his administration. The fake attack in the Gulf of Tonkin to get us full scale into Vietnam and then refusing aid to Americans in the very real USS Liberty attack.
Concerning the Gulf of Tonkin:
“So a conscious effort ensued to demonstrate that an attack occurred.” The Navy likewise says it is now “clear that North Vietnamese naval forces did not attack Maddox and Turner Joy that night.”Defense of USS Liberty recalled:
In private, Johnson himself expressed doubts about the Gulf of Tonkin incident, reportedly telling a State Department official that “those dumb, stupid sailors were just shooting at flying fish!”
https://www.history.com/news/the-gulf-of-tonkin-incident-50-years-ago
The Liberty attempted to radio for assistance, but the Israeli aircraft blocked the transmissions. Eventually, the ship was able to make contact with the U.S. carrier Saratoga, and 12 fighter jets and four tanker planes were dispatched to defend the Liberty. When word of their deployment reached Washington, however, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered them recalled to the carrier, and they never reached the Liberty. The reason for the recall remains unclear.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/israel-attacks-uss-liberty
"The Liberty attempted to radio for assistance, but the Israeli aircraft blocked the transmissions."
Fighter aircraft do not and never have had the ability to jam communications frequencies. To suggest they could is idiotic!
Excellent point. The pilots could see well enough to hit the ship's antennae and machine-gun tubs first, with surgical precision, but couldn't see the American flag the size of a garage door, unfurled wide open in a 15mph breeze. After circling the ship all morning for 7 hours and even waving at the crew.
USS Liberty Supporters
- "I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous."
-- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk
- "Accidents don't occur through repeated attacks by surface vessels and aircraft. It obviously was a decision made pretty high up on the Israeli side, because it involved combined forces. The ship was flying an American flag. My judgment was that somewhere along the line some fairly senior official gave the go ahead. I personally did not accept the Israeli explanation." -- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Recorded interview, www.ussliberty.org
- "...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty."
-- CIA Director Richard Helms in his book A Look Over my Shoulder
- That the attack was deliberate "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the National Security Agency
-- Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom on 3 March 2003 in an interview for Naval Institute Proceedings
- Former NSA/CIA Director Admiral Bobby Inman "flatly rejected" the Cristol/Israeli claims that the attack was an accident
-- 5 March 2003 interview for Naval Institute Proceedings
- "I have never believed that the attack on the USS Liberty was a case of mistaken identity. That is ridiculous. Israel knew perfectly well that the ship was American."
-- Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, former Chief of Naval Operations and later Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff writing for Americans for Middle East Understanding, June 8, 1997
- "To suggest that they [the IDF] couldn't identify the ship is ... ridiculous. ... Anybody who could not identify the Liberty could not tell the difference between the White House and the Washington Monument."
-- Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chief of Naval Operations and later Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, quoted in The Washington Post, June 15, 1991, p. 14
- "To me, the picture thus far presents the distinct possibility that the Israelis knew that Liberty might be their target and attacked anyway."
-- Admiral Rufus Taylor, Deputy CIA director, as quoted by CIA director Admiral Rufus Taylor in A Look Over My Shoulder.
- Of four former NSA/CIA seniors with inside knowledge, none was aware of any agency official who dissented from the position that the attack was deliberate
-- David Walsh, writing in Naval Institute Proceedings
- "That the Liberty could have been mistaken for the Egyptian supply ship El Quseir is unbelievable"
-- Special Assistant to the President Clark Clifford, in his report to President Lyndon Johnson
- "Inconceivable that it was an accident 3 strafing passes, 3 torpedo boats. Set forth facts. Punish Israelis responsible"
-- Clark Clifford, Secretary of Defense under Lyndon Johnson, in Minutes of NSC Special Committee Meeting, 9 June 1967
- "The attack was clearly deliberate."
-- General Marshall Carter, former director, National Security Agency, in a telephone interview with James Ennes
- "The attack was deliberate"
-- Lucius Battle, former presidential advisor, as keynote speaker for 1982 USS Liberty reunion.
- "....did not buy the Israeli 'mistake' explanations either. Nobody believes that explanation."
-- Major General John Morrison, US Air Force, Deputy Chief NSA Operations during the attack and later Chief of NSA Operations as reported in Body of Secrets by James Bamford, p233.
- "I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that they knew they were attacking an American ship."
-- Oliver Kirby, former deputy director for operations/production, National Security Agency. Kirby participated in NSA's investigation of the attack and reviewed translations of intercepted communications between pilots and their headquarters which he reports show conclusively that they knew their target was an American ship. Kirby is considered the "Godfather" of the USS Liberty and USS Pueblo intercept programs. (Telephone interviews with James Ennes and David Walsh for Friendless Fire, Proceedings, June 2003)
- On the strength of intercept transcripts of pilots' conversations during the attack, the question of the attack's deliberateness "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the agency.
-- Lieutenant General William E. Odom, former director, National Security Agency, interview with David Walsh on March 3, 2003, reported in Naval Institute Proceedings, June, 2003
- Inman said he "flatly rejected" the Cristol thesis that the attack was an accident. "It is just exceedingly difficult to believe that [USS Liberty] was not correctly identified" based on his talks with NSA seniors at the time having direct knowledge of intercepted communications. No NSA official could be found who dissented from the "deliberate" conclusion.
-- Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN, Director National Security Agency 1977-1981, reported in Proceedings, June, 2003
- "I found it hard to believe that it was, in fact, an honest mistake on the part of the Israeli air force units. I still find it impossible to believe that it was."
-- Paul C. Warnke, Undersecretary of the Navy and later general legal counsel to the Department of Defense.
If you think it is possible to hit a specific antenna with a bullet while conducting a strafing run you are definitely the dumbest SOB on the Internet.
Obviously they aimed for the antenna mounts and hit them on the first passes. You can figure that out. So the only question is, why do you shill for Israel?
Don't forget the US flag as big as a garage door on a clear day with a perfect 15 mph breeze.
From what I understand the Chosen Ones who study Talmud are taught that it is ok to lie to goy since they are inferior. Anyone know anything about that?
And the reason Israel viciously attacked the Liberty is......
Desperate for a war with the US?
Betrayal behind Israeli attack on U.S. ship
By Admiral Thomas Moorer, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Admiral Thomas Moorer
On June 8, 1967, Israel attacked our proud naval ship -- the USS Liberty -- killing 34 American servicemen and wounding 172. Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government.
U.S. military rescue aircraft were recalled, not once, but twice, through direct intervention by the Johnson administration. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's cancellation of the Navy's attempt to rescue the Liberty, which I personally confirmed from the commanders of the aircraft carriers America and Saratoga, was the most disgraceful act I witnessed in my entire military career.
To add insult to injury, Congress, to this day, has failed to hold formal hearings on Israel's attack on this American ship. No official investigation of Israel's attack has ever permitted the testimony of the surviving crew members.
A 1967 investigation by the Navy, upon which all other reports are based, has now been fully discredited as a cover-up by its senior attorney. Capt. Ward Boston, in a sworn affidavit, recently revealed that the court was ordered by the White House to cover up the incident and find that Israel's attack was "a case of mistaken identity."
Some distinguished colleagues and I formed an independent commission to investigate the attack on the USS Liberty. After an exhaustive review of previous reports, naval and other military records, including eyewitness testimony from survivors, we recently presented our findings on Capitol Hill. They include:
· Israeli reconnaissance aircraft closely studied the Liberty during an eight-hour period prior to the attack, one flying within 200 feet of the ship. Weather reports confirm the day was clear with unlimited visibility. The Liberty was a clearly marked American ship in international waters, flying an American flag and carrying large U.S. Navy hull letters and numbers on its bow.
Despite claims by Israeli intelligence that they confused the Liberty with a small Egyptian transport, the Liberty was conspicuously different from any vessel in the Egyptian navy. It was the most sophisticated intelligence ship in the world in 1967. With its massive radio antennae, including a large satellite dish, it looked like a large lobster and was one of the most easily identifiable ships afloat.
· Israel attempted to prevent the Liberty's radio operators from sending a call for help by jamming American emergency radio channels.
· Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned lifeboats at close range that had been lowered to rescue the most seriously wounded.
As a result, our commission concluded that:
· There is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew.
· In attacking the USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against U.S. servicemen and an act of war against the United States
· The White House knowingly covered up the facts of this attack from the American people.
· The truth continues to be concealed to the present day in what can only be termed a national disgrace.
What was Israel's motive in launching this attack? Congress must address this question with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services.
The men of the USS Liberty represented the United States. They were attacked for two hours, causing 70 percent of American casualties, and the eventual loss of our best intelligence ship.
These sailors and Marines were entitled to our best defense. We gave them no defense.
Did our government put Israel's interests ahead of our own? If so, why? Does our government continue to subordinate American interests to Israeli interests? These are important questions that should be investigated by an independent, fully empowered commission of the American government.
The American people deserve to know the truth about this attack. We must finally shed some light on one of the blackest pages in American naval history. It is a duty we owe not only to the brave men of the USS Liberty, but to every man and woman who is asked to wear the uniform of the United States.
Moorer was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff from 1970 to 1974. He is joined in the independent commission of inquiry by Gen. Ray Davis (recently deceased); Rear Adm. Merlin Staring; former Judge Advocate General of the Navy and Ambassador James Akins.
Don't forget the US flag as big as a garage door on a clear day with a perfect 15 mph breeze.
From what I understand the Chosen Ones who study Talmud are taught that it is ok to lie to goy since they are inferior. Anyone know anything about that?
That's funny. I seem to recall reading an account that said there was almost no wind, so how would the flag be unfurled?
You still haven't answered my question about the ship's markings being American. That was just another little lie on your part, wasn't it?
Don't forget the US flag as big as a garage door on a clear day with a perfect 15 mph breeze.
From what I understand the Chosen Ones who study Talmud are taught that it is ok to lie to goy since they are inferior. Anyone know anything about that?
That's funny. I seem to recall reading an account that said there was almost no wind, so how would the flag be unfurled?
You still haven't answered my question about the ship's markings being American. That was just another little lie on your part, wasn't it?
The wind was 6 - 10 MPH with Liberty heading into it, perfect for flag. The markings were fresh painted. Israeli recon planes circled the ship for 7 hours in the morning, waving to the crew. One attack pilot refused to attack as was arrested upon landing. They machine gunned the lifeboats at close range, after 2 hours of attack.
Don't forget the US flag as big as a garage door on a clear day with a perfect 15 mph breeze.
From what I understand the Chosen Ones who study Talmud are taught that it is ok to lie to goy since they are inferior. Anyone know anything about that?
That's funny. I seem to recall reading an account that said there was almost no wind, so how would the flag be unfurled?
You still haven't answered my question about the ship's markings being American. That was just another little lie on your part, wasn't it?
The wind was 6 - 10 MPH with Liberty heading into it, perfect for flag. The markings were fresh painted. Israeli recon planes circled the ship for 7 hours in the morning, waving to the crew. One attack pilot refused to attack as was arrested upon landing. They machine gunned the lifeboats at close range, after 2 hours of attack.
What markings are you talking about dumbass? Please tell me, based on your intimate knowledge of the United States Navy, how can YOU tell that is a United State's ship?
BTW, where is the flag in that photo?
Do you think that tall hull numbers on the bow, both port and starboard might be a clue, ya fucking hotshot? How many GTR class vessels were commissioned and in service by how many countries in that decade with that waterline profile Mr. Wizard??Please tell me, based on your intimate knowledge of the United States Navy, how can YOU tell that is a United State's ship?
Because, once fixed, the Navy never touches up or repaints hull numbers or the name on the stern. As we all know Egyptian freighters are famous for haze grey ships with ten foot tall hull numbers.
Even junior enlisted know that no ship in the Navy puts out to sea without the flag flying. Bathtub Admirals, not so much.
"The transcript published by the Jerusalem Post bore scant resemblance to the one that in 1967 rolled off the teletype machine behind the sealed vault door at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, where Steve Forslund worked as an intelligence analyst for the 544th Air Reconnaissance Technical Wing, then the highest-level strategic planning office in the Air Force.
"The ground control station stated that the target was American and for the aircraft to confirm it," Forslund recalled. "The aircraft did confirm the identity of the target as American, by the American flag.
"The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target and ensure they left no survivors."
Because, once fixed, the Navy never touches up or repaints hull numbers or the name on the stern. As we all know Egyptian freighters are famous for haze grey ships with ten foot tall hull numbers.
Even junior enlisted know that no ship in the Navy puts out to sea without the flag flying. Bathtub Admirals, not so much.
Because, once fixed, the Navy never touches up or repaints hull numbers or the name on the stern. As we all know Egyptian freighters are famous for haze grey ships with ten foot tall hull numbers.
Even junior enlisted know that no ship in the Navy puts out to sea without the flag flying. Bathtub Admirals, not so much.
Exactly.
Because, once fixed, the Navy never touches up or repaints hull numbers or the name on the stern. As we all know Egyptian freighters are famous for haze grey ships with ten foot tall hull numbers.
Even junior enlisted know that no ship in the Navy puts out to sea without the flag flying. Bathtub Admirals, not so much.
Exactly.
I'm still waiting for you to show me the flag in that photograph of the USS Liberty. You are the bathtub admral.
How long did it to qualify as a Surface Warfare Officer?
