Will Sweden Complete The Jump To Full Dhimmitude?

[Annie]

They seem surprised by the 'demand':

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=3674&date=20060428&PHPSESSID=151a20b729860e9bd580996d94743dff

'Separate laws for Muslims' idea slammed

Published: 28th April 2006 10:08 CET

Sweden's largest Muslim organisation has demanded that Sweden introduce separate laws for Muslims, according to Swedish television. Sweden's equality minister Jens Orback called the proposals "completely unacceptable".

The Swedish Muslim Association, which represents around 70,000 Muslims in Sweden, has sent a letter to all Sweden's main political parties suggesting a number of reforms, SVT's Rapport programme reported.

The proposals include allowing imams into state (public) schools to give Muslim children separate lessons in Islam and their parents' native languages. The letter also said that boys and girls should have separate swimming lessons and that divorces between Muslims should be approved by an imam.

The letter provoked an instant, and damning, response from integration and equality minister Jens Orback.

"We will not have separate laws in Sweden. In Sweden, we are all equal before the law. In Sweden, we have fought for a long time to achieve gender-neutral laws, and to propose that certain groups should not be treated like others is completely unacceptable."

Orback said he had spoken to representatives of the Swedish Muslim Council, and they did not support the association's position.

"We have freedom of speech, we have the right to opinions and we have the right to make proposals - but if a law is going to be changed, it must be the same for everyone."

Asked whether the proposal plays into the hands of racists, Orback said that it did.

"I think it is very problematic and unfortunate that people who have been in Sweden for so long make proposals such as this that are so opposed to our intentions, when we are fighting for women's rights and the right to divorce," Orback replied.

Liberal Party leader Lars Leijonborg also slammed the idea of separate laws.

"Sweden has equality between men and women. To introduce exceptions for Muslims so that women can be oppressed with the support of the law is completely unacceptable to me," Liberal leader Lars Leijonborg wrote in a statement.

The question is, 'why the surprise?' They've been on this road for quite awhile:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/807

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/Fjordman50506.htm

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/510

 

[Harmageddon]

Originally posted by Kathianne
The question is, 'why the surprise?' They've been on this road for quite awhile:

Which you follow up with some links.

In them, the guy claims the Swedes are cowards for not printing the Muhammed cartoons, a clear sign they are caving in to the Muslim fanatic's demands - slowly, but steady.

If I recall correctly, the United States press did not print the cartoons either; southpark was pulled back by comedycentral from airing Muhammed, and so on and so on.

Seems to me, your country is on the road to becoming the Muslim fanatic's asshole of the world.

A shame.

PS: I am from the Netherlands: my country printed the cartoons all over the place, they were on the evening news and in every major newspaper. I am not saying my country is better than yours, but in this, we are.

To whom it may concern:
Whomever wishes to be a fundamentalist Muslim, fine, be my guest. But don't come complaining when you realize your country is running backwards in time, and oppressive theocratic rule is choking your personal freedom. The cage you see was built by your own hands.

And requesting to build that same cage in my country will be met with disdain, disbelief and pity. It's not a good foundation from which to demand respect.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Which you follow up with some links.

In them, the guy claims the Swedes are cowards for not printing the Muhammed cartoons, a clear sign they are caving in to the Muslim fanatic's demands - slowly, but steady.

If I recall correctly, the United States press did not print the cartoons either; southpark was pulled back by comedycentral from airing Muhammed, and so on and so on.

Seems to me, your country is on the road to becoming the Muslim fanatic's asshole of the world.

A shame.

PS: I am from the Netherlands: my country printed the cartoons all over the place, they were on the evening news and in every major newspaper. I am not saying my country is better than yours, but in this, we are.

To whom it may concern:
Whomever wishes to be a fundamentalist Muslim, fine, be my guest. But don't come complaining when you realize your country is running backwards in time, and oppressive theocratic rule is choking your personal freedom. The cage you see was built by your own hands.

And requesting to build that same cage in my country will be met with disdain, disbelief and pity. It's not a good foundation from which to demand respect.

A little sensitive are we? Don't want to live in Eurabia? DO SOMETHING!

 

[ErikViking]

Dhimmitude? What is that?

Is it possible to quote an article that someone quoted?

From the top of the thread:
"
Liberal Party leader Lars Leijonborg also slammed the idea of separate laws.
"

FYI The Liberal Party is to the right (not important on the matter).

 

[Annie]

Dhimmitude? What is that?

Is it possible to quote an article that someone quoted?

From the top of the thread:
"
Liberal Party leader Lars Leijonborg also slammed the idea of separate laws.
"

FYI The Liberal Party is to the right (not important on the matter).

See this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=413424#post413424

 

[ErikViking]

Well if I understand Dhimmitude right, and it was a bit complex, - I must say that I don't understand this topic. Dhimmitue is where laws are changed into shari'a based law. But no such laws has been written and as the quote said, no one want's that. Not even muslims as a general:

From the same source:http://www.thelocal.se

Now other Muslim organisations, including the umbrella organisation, the Muslim Council of Sweden, have distanced themselves from the letter.

"This has absolutely no support in any of our organisations," said Mehmet Kaplan, the council's spokesman, to Svenska Dagbladet.

"It's a non-issue for us. I have also spoken to the vice-chairman of the Swedish Muslim Association and he didn't know anything about it either."

At a crisis meeting on Friday, other Muslim organisations confirmed that they did not support the controversial proposals.

That some people make a demand isn't the thame thing that a nation obides that demand. It takes a majority of the population and a four year term to change those kind of laws in Sweden. Or is the poster trying to say that we should change the law so that everyone can follow his or hers religous laws? That would be troublesome I think.

 

[Annie]

Well if I understand Dhimmitude right, and it was a bit complex, - I must say that I don't understand this topic. Dhimmitue is where laws are changed into shari'a based law. But no such laws has been written and as the quote said, no one want's that. Not even muslims as a general:



That some people make a demand isn't the thame thing that a nation obides that demand. It takes a majority of the population and a four year term to change those kind of laws in Sweden. Or is the poster trying to say that we should change the law so that everyone can follow his or hers religous laws? That would be troublesome I think.

Actually, it's when the infidels 'submit' to what Islamics want, in accordance to Sh'aria, which is cultural and religious-whether official or not-often in fear of perceived threats of violence. Sweden has choices to make, not good ones.

 

[ErikViking]

Actually, it's when the infidels 'submit' to what Islamics want, in accordance to Sh'aria, which is cultural and religious-whether official or not-often in fear of perceived threats of violence. Sweden has choices to make, not good ones.

Yes, that is reallity. Like in the printing of the cartoons. Our Foregin minister approved the shutdown of a website showing the cartoons. A very bad thing indeed, but she had to resign because of that too. So I guess dhimmitude descisions do occur, but they are officially corrected, according to law. Not even the foreign minister may fall for pressure.


Can the dhimmitude term be used related other groups than islamists?

 

[Annie]

Yes, that is reallity. Like in the printing of the cartoons. Our Foregin minister approved the shutdown of a website showing the cartoons. A very bad thing indeed, but she had to resign because of that too. So I guess dhimmitude descisions do occur, but they are officially corrected, according to law. Not even the foreign minister may fall for pressure.

To continue doing so would be very good.

Can the dhimmitude term be used related other groups than islamists?

Do you know of another group that threatens all those who hold different beliefs? We are not speaking of a Tim McVeigh or the crazy 'pastor' saying military deaths are God's judgement on homosexuals or abortion provider killers...

 

[ErikViking]

Do you know of another group that threatens all those who hold different beliefs? We are not speaking of a Tim McVeigh or the crazy 'pastor' saying military deaths are God's judgement on homosexuals or abortion provider killers...

We have native indians that has a whole set of special economic and landowning rights. Not that they are voilent, but they get special treatment. (Probably beacuse we have stolen their country like a thousand years ago).
They don't make threats but they demand special rights to ensure their way of living.

 

[Annie]

We have native indians that has a whole set of special economic and landowning rights. Not that they are voilent, but they get special treatment. (Probably beacuse we have stolen their country like a thousand years ago).
They don't make threats but they demand special rights to ensure their way of living.

Ah but there is a difference between political correctness, righting wrongs, and dhimmitude.

 

[ErikViking]

Ah but there is a difference between political correctness, righting wrongs, and dhimmitude.

Yes there is a difference, but dhimmitude was a good word. It encapsulated other things than the mere Islamistic part. But misuse of a word also takes away the meaning of it so I guess its better to let it stick to the definition.

 

[Annie]

Yes there is a difference, but dhimmitude was a good word. It encapsulated other things than the mere Islamistic part. But misuse of a word also takes away the meaning of it so I guess its better to let it stick to the definition.

I see no use but the current one. Sorry, perhaps you could be clearer?

 

[ErikViking]

I see no use but the current one. Sorry, perhaps you could be clearer?

Well now that I have thought about It I don't think there is no other meaningful use.
There are already words for when you let someone have something because you're afraid of the trouble you get by denying it. So i guess dhimmitude only works on this subject. Which is good because it exactly defines what is going on.

 

[Harmageddon]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr:
A little sensitive are we? Don't want to live in Eurabia? DO SOMETHING!

I am a sensitive individual, so sue me.
So are you judging by your comments across the message board.

Europe is not, and will never be, “Eurabia”. It is as factual a statement that George W. Bush is indeed the incarnation of Jesus Christ. Bull.

It’s all just a little bit of history repeating, as someone once said. People just smashing other people’s heads in, some guy will come along, shouting: “Hey, let’s be nice to one another instead, just to see what that brings”, then the torture and murder of that guy, and the subsequent raising of his status to that of a martyr, or even a saint several centuries later.

Alas, to me, there is no God.

So it’s up to us: you and me, and everyone else. And we seem to be quite good at neglecting the status of our collective cage (i.e. planet earth). We’ll see. All the fear of climate change aside, we should really learn to cut down on our pollution across the spectrum. Just for the sake of a somewhat cleaner cage. That’s all.

To the people that do claim there is a God, and He/She talks to you:

Does He/She tell you to destroy your fellow man, because they claim your God has a different name, or is someone else entirely? Does he speak of Depleted Uranium to bring permanent enlightenment to the masses? Does he speak of a Jihad to cut the spleens from the unbelievers, and feed your children their remains? Does He/She speak of the devil to you, and that you should watch your back for his evil slithering into your brain, in the guise of a free, thinking spirit?

You know what I want to do?
I want to take up arms and destroy this “God”. This idea, that has poisoned so many and makes them see only the perspective from their own little selfish point of view. Because, although the original idea is quite holy, the practice of the theory leaves somewhat to be desired. Which is coded a sin, alas.

Since that is impossible for me to do, I stick to these ramblings, and some cartoons of my own instead. Just try and stay positive, that is the most important thing to see beyond the madness.

And forget the reptilian aliens from the 4th dimension; they're just an excuse.

 

[Said1]

I

Does He/She tell you to destroy your fellow man, because they claim your God has a different name, or is someone else entirely? Does he speak of Depleted Uranium to bring permanent enlightenment to the masses? Does he speak of a Jihad to cut the spleens from the unbelievers, and feed your children their remains? Does He/She speak of the devil to you, and that you should watch your back for his evil slithering into your brain, in the guise of a free, thinking spirit?

NO, no. He/She says more oil, or no internet for you!

 

[Annie]

Looks like the answer to thread title may well be, 'Yes.'


http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=3738&date=20060506&PHPSESSID=04d908160f98e39972b6afe9e01248b5

 

[ErikViking]

Looks like the answer to thread title may well be, 'Yes.'


http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=3738&date=20060506&PHPSESSID=04d908160f98e39972b6afe9e01248b5

Yes... our PM really works hard these days to show a palistinian bias. Maybe it's not dhimmitude, but it seems very unlikley that he (or the nation) can play any significant part in the middle east now. Sweden has had a few good diplomats, and the PM is acting (I think) in sort of envy, he has never gone anything "global". Man, - hope his gone this autumn... election time.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31632

 

[Annie]

Yes... our PM really works hard these days to show a palistinian bias. Maybe it's not dhimmitude, but it seems very unlikley that he (or the nation) can play any significant part in the middle east now. Sweden has had a few good diplomats, and the PM is acting (I think) in sort of envy, he has never gone anything "global". Man, - hope his gone this autumn... election time.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31632

I still think 'yes' as the caving to Islamic demands are not only met, but exceeded. That is dhimmi. Proving one is not worthy of beheading. Sweden collapses.

 

[ErikViking]

I still think 'yes' as the caving to Islamic demands are not only met, but exceeded. That is dhimmi. Proving one is not worthy of beheading. Sweden collapses.

I guess time will tell? I don't share your pessimism.