Will Ryan and the GOP win the "War on the Elderly"?

[Zona]

I did not ask for it, the Dr. told me about it. There is also places like needymeds.com that will help you to if you need medication. I was also lucky to have had a Dr. who would work with me on his bill. He didn't even charge me for most of the visits.

So Socialized Medicine is A-OK with CON$ if you don't ask for it.
Check!

Wasn't socialized medicine, it was charity. The government had nothing to do with it at all. Had I lived in Canada I would have waited a year or more to have started that treatment if I got it at all.

I have heard from your side how churches should be able to help out the poor. So we have the republican solutions here..

Go to church and ask for charity or GO TO THE DAMN BIG PHARMA AND ASK FOR HCARITY.

Are you serious? Everyone, dont make changes, just beg big pharma. They are lovely lovely people. Do like this guy did because he has the ultimate example of how great they are!


Seriously?

 

[RDD_1210]

So Socialized Medicine is A-OK with CON$ if you don't ask for it.
Check!

Wasn't socialized medicine, it was charity. The government had nothing to do with it at all. Had I lived in Canada I would have waited a year or more to have started that treatment if I got it at all.

I have heard from your side how churches should be able to help out the poor. So we have the republican solutions here..

Go to church and ask for charity or GO TO THE DAMN BIG PHARMA AND ASK FOR HCARITY.

Are you serious? Everyone, dont make changes, just beg big pharma. They are lovely lovely people. Do like this guy did because he has the ultimate example of how great they are!


Seriously?

It does make sense. While they are on their knees worshiping big business, they might as well beg too.

 

[taichiliberal]

No working person in the USA makes enough to really pay for a serious illness.

If you doubt that then just look at the national median net worth stats broken down by average age

Under 25


$1,475

​

25-34

$8,525

​

35-44

$51,575

​

45-54

$98,350

​

55-64

$180,125

source​

And the above isn't measuring people's CASH postions, this is the value of all assets (many of which are hardly liquid)​

So let's get real, shall we?​

Serious long term illness will take more cash that most people's net worth.

The following are prices of fairly common health problems, problems that most of us will face....heart disease and cancer.​

Average price for open heart surgery? $125, 200

​

The Average Net Worth of Americans: Where Do You Stand? | Money Relationship
​

​

​

A Harvard University, National Cancer Institute, and National Bureau of Economic Research researchers, published in the December 1, 2007 issue of Cancer, finds that average life-expectancy for lung cancer patients rose by less than one month between 1983 and 1997, while costs rose by over $20,000 per patient.

Cost-effectiveness, as measured by the cost of an additional year of life gained, was poor, with a high average cost of $403,142. When analyzed by disease severity, the cost per additional year gained for local and regional disease was $143,614 and $45,861, respectively. For metastatic cancer, the cost per additional year gained was $1,190,322.2

source

Bottom line is is this...the cost of modern medicine is higher than those with anything remotely approaching a median income can possibly afford "out of pocket".

So we can change the way we pay, we can change who pays, too, but until we get the cost of modern medicine back in line with incomes?

This health care issue is going to continue to be a serious problem.

The health issue is not that hard. I was diagnosed as a stage 3 grade 4 Hepatitis-c patent in 2005. The meds I needed cost $1,475 a month and I made $8.25 an hour and had no insurance. Know how I got them ? I asked Rouch for them and they gave them to me for free. This is common among drug companys. I got to go to work. Have a good day all.

Not so fast.....did you have any type of insurance at all? What were the precise forms/agreements/requirments that you had to meet to get your free medication? And for how long are they going to provide this freebie?

 

[hortysir]

Well thats easy isn't it?

The answer seems to be if our medical costs are too high, we should just ask for the drug or treatment for free

I did not ask for it, the Dr. told me about it. There is also places like needymeds.com that will help you to if you need medication. I was also lucky to have had a Dr. who would work with me on his bill. He didn't even charge me for most of the visits.

Your side is completly against anything even resembling socialism, yet here youare with your hand out asking for help.

You are the ulitmate hypocrite. YOu really, honestly and truly are. Wow.

So a corporation and a doctor gave charity to a patient.

Explain to me how that compares to socialism or government spending someone else's tax dollars to give to someone else.

 

[hortysir]

Why can't we cut $1.6 trillion from the budget? It wasn't that long ago that the entire budget wasn't that high, so cutting it back by that much will not cause the world to implode.

Everyone knows I'm no economist, but I'd guess it probably has a lot to do with how much the value of a dollar has dropped.....

Can you explain to me why the price of the government has consistently outpaced inflation then? If, as you imply, it was actually tied to the value of a dollar it would increase at about the same rate as inflation.

Hey.... I told ya it was a guess....

I was just thinking how it takes more dollars to do today than it did then.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

First off, lets look at the definition of charity shall we ?

char·i·ty
   [char-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties.
1.
generous actions or donations to aid the poor, ill, or helpless: to devote one's life to charity.
2.
something given to a person or persons in need; alms: She asked for work, not charity.
3.
a charitable act or work.
4.
a charitable fund, foundation, or institution: He left his estate to a charity.
5.
benevolent feeling, especially toward those in need or in disfavor: She looked so poor that we fed her out of charity.
6.
leniency in judging others; forbearance: She was inclined to view our selfish behavior with charity.
7.
Christian love; agape.

Nothing in sentence 1 through 7 even resembles socialism. which is defined here -

so·cial·ism
noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Definition of SOCIALISM
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
See socialism defined for English-language learners »

So, no government officials or money involved at all. You see, I looked into moving to Canada to get treated. First reason I didn't was because they wont treat non-citizens. Second, at the time they were using an inferior treatment that caused lots of pain and life threatening side affects and the treatment for those were not covered by Canada's superb medical system. I was also very ill so I wouldn't have been eligible for treatment by the state. If you remember back during the health care fight, charity was mentioned as a counter argument and brushed off and ignored. I also went to a clinic that had a sliding scale that decided what I would pay for my medical care, The place was a dump, yet the facility and care were A-1 compared to the state run facility's that normal folks go to in Canada, which Obama wants to bring here. Its funny though hoe he and his Family are exempt from having to use them and its the same for those in the senate and congress. Its also the case for all of Obamas union friends and there family's, not to mention all the states who's politicians supported Obama care. So for my part, I pay it forward by giving to selected charity's and my church. So lets look at the definition of hypocrisy after looking at the other two lets see if I am a hypocrite for accepting charity.-

hy·poc·ri·sy
noun \hi-ˈpä-krə-sē also hī-\
plural hy·poc·ri·sies
Definition of HYPOCRISY
1
: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2
: an act or instance of hypocrisy

Na, I'm good. And I forgot to mention that I did not get any of your tax dollars either.

 

[Sallow]

First the Repubs declared a war on women & now they're declaring a war on seniors too?

Well you left out civil servants like police, firemen and especially teachers.

Should be a real winner come next election.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

First the Repubs declared a war on women & now they're declaring a war on seniors too?

Well you left out civil servants like police, firemen and especially teachers.

Should be a real winner come next election.

Well, the Feds have no business dealing with state fire, police, or civil service departments any way. The Government fucks up everything they touch so why would they even want to use it as an issue ?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Fuck civil servants. The people here in my county are finally waking up and asking...yeah why does a 1,500 student HS need 6 full time assistant principals anyway?

 

[editec]

Will Ryan and the GOP win the "War on the Elderly"?

Yes.

They have been winning that part of the ongoing CLASS WAR for pretty much the last 40 years and counting.

 

[Navy1960]

Along with Medicaid, Medicare is one of the nation's primary health insurance programs and, in many ways, it has been one of the federal government's most significant success stories. It provides coverage to nearly 39 million people, or about 14 percent of Americans and nearly every senior aged 65 or older. By comparison, before Medicare was enacted in 1965 just 56 percent of seniors had hospital insurance.

Medicare's long term prospects are less rosy. According to the Medicare trustees, the Hospital Insurance trust fund will continue to run a surplus until 2017, when it will begin to run a deficit and start drawing down trust fund reserves. Absent any policy changes, the trustees estimate that the trust fund will be depleted in 2025. Over the next 75 years (2000-2074), the trustees estimate a programmatic financial shortfall equal to 1.21 percent of taxable payroll. In other words, immediately raising the combined payroll tax on employers and employees from 2.9 percent to 4.11 percent would be sufficient to cover long term shortfalls.

Medicare

Frankly Chairman Ryan's idea is not a new one, it is one that is close to the Kerr-Mills Bill of the 1960's prior to Medicare and more closely resembles Sen. John Breaux (D-LA) proposal that failed to see the light of day during the Clinton years. We all can agree that Medicare NEED's to have some reforms implemented in order to insure it's survival as well as putting a dent into this nations debt. In my humble opinion however, Chairman Ryan's plan as well as Sen. Breaux's plan suffer from one major flaw and that is when you move Seniors into the private market place it neglects the fact that private insurance companies will no doubt charge Seniors and disabled as well as Vets much much higher premiums on healthcare which will result in many lacking insurance and your back to the same cycle of people seeking medical care in this nations ER's thus resulting in even higher costs not to mention the fact you have also lowered the quality of healthcare to Seniors as well cost the taxpayer even more money. So while yes Medicare does need to be reformed , perhaps the best path would be to "means test" ALL of Medicare, as well lower overall healthcare cost, not to mention the fact if the economy can be turned around and more people are involved in the system then the healthier the program will become. If you address all three of those factors then perhaps you will have something.

 

[JimH52]

It's just a matter of time until middle American wakes up. Republicans should be concerned, because there is going to be a massive backlash against them and conservatism in general.

Exactly! The GOP is pushing the limit of their desire to reward the wealthy. while slamming the poor and middle class.

Sooner or later, Billy Boy in Louisiana that has sworn off of any news station other than FOX, is going to wise up and ask, "Why are the Republicans so intent on tax breaks for the wealthy?"

Then, the GOP will begin to lose its largest block of supporters.

 

[JimH52]

Fuck civil servants. The people here in my county are finally waking up and asking...yeah why does a 1,500 student HS need 6 full time assistant principals anyway?

Link that assertion Frank.

 

[Greenbeard]

I heard the GOP wants to cut 500 Billion from Medicare! Can you believe that shit?

Oh wait. That's the Democrats.

I think you lost the ability to play that card when Ryan introduced a proposal retaining those exact spending cuts and 235 Republicans voted for it.

 

[taichiliberal]

First off, lets look at the definition of charity shall we ?

char·i·ty
   [char-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties.
1.
generous actions or donations to aid the poor, ill, or helpless: to devote one's life to charity.
2.
something given to a person or persons in need; alms: She asked for work, not charity.
3.
a charitable act or work.
4.
a charitable fund, foundation, or institution: He left his estate to a charity.
5.
benevolent feeling, especially toward those in need or in disfavor: She looked so poor that we fed her out of charity.
6.
leniency in judging others; forbearance: She was inclined to view our selfish behavior with charity.
7.
Christian love; agape.

Nothing in sentence 1 through 7 even resembles socialism. which is defined here -

so·cial·ism
noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Definition of SOCIALISM
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3
: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
See socialism defined for English-language learners »

So, no government officials or money involved at all. You see, I looked into moving to Canada to get treated. First reason I didn't was because they wont treat non-citizens. Second, at the time they were using an inferior treatment that caused lots of pain and life threatening side affects and the treatment for those were not covered by Canada's superb medical system. I was also very ill so I wouldn't have been eligible for treatment by the state. If you remember back during the health care fight, charity was mentioned as a counter argument and brushed off and ignored. I also went to a clinic that had a sliding scale that decided what I would pay for my medical care, The place was a dump, yet the facility and care were A-1 compared to the state run facility's that normal folks go to in Canada, which Obama wants to bring here. Its funny though hoe he and his Family are exempt from having to use them and its the same for those in the senate and congress. Its also the case for all of Obamas union friends and there family's, not to mention all the states who's politicians supported Obama care. So for my part, I pay it forward by giving to selected charity's and my church. So lets look at the definition of hypocrisy after looking at the other two lets see if I am a hypocrite for accepting charity.-

hy·poc·ri·sy
noun \hi-ˈpä-krə-sē also hī-\
plural hy·poc·ri·sies
Definition of HYPOCRISY
1
: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2
: an act or instance of hypocrisy

Na, I'm good. And I forgot to mention that I did not get any of your tax dollars either.

First off, you made a lot of negative statements about the Canadian system initially that YOU just now contradicted.

- You were NOT a citizen, nor did you live there.

- You made a claim that Canadians don't treat "non-citizens"....please provide a quote from Canadian law that states that.

- You stated that "at the time" they had "inferior" treatment for your disease. It's not unusual for one country NOT to have ground breaking or state of the art treatment for one disease for another. America is NOT always the leader in medical breakthrough treatments...case in point, acupuncture and various aspects of Chinese medicine have been used for centuries in other parts of the world, but American medical community resisted until the mid 1970's....and even to this day there is prejudice against doctors who use that particular type treatment.

- You bring up "charity" but you offer no evidence of ever applying to any "charitable" organization, and the origianl discussion was NOT about charity. Instead you again give another generalized and unsubstantiated story of lousy clinics and Canadian care.

- So I ask you AGAIN...did you have any type of insurance at all? What were the precise forms/agreements/requirments that you had to meet to get the free medication from the pharaceutical company that you claim? And for how long did they provide this freebie?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3556750-post63.html

 

[taichiliberal]

Fuck civil servants. The people here in my county are finally waking up and asking...yeah why does a 1,500 student HS need 6 full time assistant principals anyway?

Sorry Frankie, but as goes your county does NOT go the rest of the country. Get off your flabby ass and work to change and improve your local system if it's out of whack.

A simple analysis of Ryan's Ayn Rand wet dream for Social Security and Medicare shows what a selfish, elitist POS Ryan and his delusional followers are. Do your homework, Frank, because Ryan sure as hell benefitted from the very system he's trying to gut.

 

[editec]

I find it amusing that I just showed most of you how impossible it is for about 85% of America's families to weather even one catastropic illness (and the two most likely causes of death in this nation, too) and what follows?

More partisan nonsense.

An unsoluable problem for society, the ship of state is sinking and you guys continue to argue about how the deckchairs need arranging.

This nation is going down, and based on the behavior in this place, it really ought to go down, too.

It's time for a society that doesn't HATE logical thinking to take the world leadership position.

America and its citizens just can't handle the responsiblity, that's obvious.

 

[taichiliberal]

I find it amusing that I just showed most of you how impossible it is for about 85% of America's families to weather even one catastropic illness (and the two most likely causes of death in this nation, too) and what follows?

More partisan nonsense.

An unsoluable problem for society, the ship of state is sinking and you guys continue to argue about how the deckchairs need arranging.

This nation is going down, and based on the behavior in this place, it really ought to go down, too.

It's time for a society that doesn't HATE logical thinking to take the world leadership position.

America and its citizens just can't handle the responsiblity, that's obvious.

I haven't 100% backed the Dems...Lord knows they've wimped out on more than one occasion.... I just point out the sheer stupidity and dishonesty of the Ryan proposal and those who support him. Pretty much, we're on the same page.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

No working person in the USA makes enough to really pay for a serious illness.

If you doubt that then just look at the national median net worth stats broken down by average age

Under 25


$1,475

​

25-34

$8,525

​

35-44

$51,575

​

45-54

$98,350

​

55-64

$180,125

source​

And the above isn't measuring people's CASH postions, this is the value of all assets (many of which are hardly liquid)​

So let's get real, shall we?​

Serious long term illness will take more cash that most people's net worth.

The following are prices of fairly common health problems, problems that most of us will face....heart disease and cancer.​

​

source

Bottom line is is this...the cost of modern medicine is higher than those with anything remotely approaching a median income can possibly afford "out of pocket".

So we can change the way we pay, we can change who pays, too, but until we get the cost of modern medicine back in line with incomes?

This health care issue is going to continue to be a serious problem.

The health issue is not that hard. I was diagnosed as a stage 3 grade 4 Hepatitis-c patent in 2005. The meds I needed cost $1,475 a month and I made $8.25 an hour and had no insurance. Know how I got them ? I asked Rouch for them and they gave them to me for free. This is common among drug companys. I got to go to work. Have a good day all.

Not so fast.....did you have any type of insurance at all? What were the precise forms/agreements/requirments that you had to meet to get your free medication? And for how long are they going to provide this freebie?

I had to have a Dr. prescribe the med's and an address to ship them to. I received a 48 week supply. No insurance at the time, I got lucky to have the Dr. I had. And the prior years tax papers. The thing is, if you need it, you can get medical attention with out the government getting involved.

 

[rdean]

I find it amusing that I just showed most of you how impossible it is for about 85% of America's families to weather even one catastropic illness (and the two most likely causes of death in this nation, too) and what follows?

More partisan nonsense.

An unsoluable problem for society, the ship of state is sinking and you guys continue to argue about how the deckchairs need arranging.

This nation is going down, and based on the behavior in this place, it really ought to go down, too.

It's time for a society that doesn't HATE logical thinking to take the world leadership position.

America and its citizens just can't handle the responsiblity, that's obvious.

The "partisan nonsense" is not the Democrats fault. At least they try to help the middle class.

Guantanamo is a "perfect" example. Remember when the generals were saying that Guantanamo was a "recruiting tool" for al Qaeda. They were saying we need to shut it down because we lost the moral high ground against al Qaeda.

The Republican leadership knows that keeping Guantanamo open puts our troops in danger and makes their jobs more difficult. So what did they do? They spent millions on a campaign of lies terrorizing Americans. Remember, "Obama wants to release terrorists onto American streets" and "Obama will let terrorists live in your neighborhood"?

Republicans turned Guantanamo into a "win-win". If Obama closed it, he would be going against the public opinion that Republicans manipulated. And the Leadership can say Obama "broke his promise". The only losers are our American soldiers. But hey, if the Republican leadership can throw the elderly under the bus, what's a few soldiers? It's not like they come from "rich families". Besides, as Republicans point out, "They volunteered".