Will Israel ever return the favor?

[Sweet Willy]

I am trying to coral this issue into one topic so I don't have to pollute other topics everytime someone mentions how great Israel is for us. So here is my topic for the issue.

When do we ever get to cash in a favor from Israel?

For over 40 years we have steadfastly stood by the Jewish state. We have sent billions, every year. We have sent military aid and weapons. We have bought peace for her with Egypt and Jordan. We looked the other way when she attacked and sank the USS Liberty, forsaking our own men and national interest. An action that surely would provoke war with almost any other nation. We have spent well over a trillion dollars, a tenth of our national debt, on this one nation. They have that undeclared nuclear arsenal too. No one else gets away with that. But we let our good friend slide.

We went to war in Vietnam. Israel wasn't there. No problem. She had problems of her own. Can't blame her there.

We went to Iraq and Kuwait. Israel wasn't there. No problem. The excuse that we wouldn't want the Arabs to find out that we favor Israel was pretty thin, but no problem. We've got this. Sit tight.

We were attacked by Al Qaeda. 3,000 dead, at once. Why? What was the stated reason for attacking us? Israel. Surely our friend won't stand for this. They won't let this stand. They will surely join us in this! No. They stayed home for Afghanistan too.

Iraq II. I just knew it was time to cash in a favor on this one. With so many of our friends abandonning us, begging Turkey and former soviet teritorries for a place to land an airplane or two, needing somewhere for our boys to get their supplies, surely Israel will at least let us use a base? Land a plane or two? Can we stop and wipe our ass for God sake? No. American military isn't allowed to use Israel. Not to attack the common enemy, not to attack the people who killed our citizens becasue we stuck by her for 40 years, damn it all, we were there.


You have to be completely blind or completely invested in one religious ideaology or another to consider this nation a friend. It makes no sense. I had held out that this was a relationship that we should keep up, no matter the cost, because someday, we would need an allie in that part of the world. People, that day has come and gone. If the day is coming, WHEN? WHEN IS IT?

Never, is the answer. Israel is a one way proposition. Always has been. If they are starving, feed them. If they are naked, cloth them. But by God, they have enough weapons to defend themselves and they sure as hell don't intend to use them for anything else.

 

[Article 15]

What are looking for in return?

 

[Soaring]

If you look at the size of Israel as compared to the rest of the Arab and Islamic world in which they are located, you might start to understand their plight. Yes, they can defend themselves, but they can't wage a long term war with Afghanistan. They should be able to offer our Air Force bases to land, fuel up and rest the pilots though. If they can't do that simple thing, then cut their asses off and let them die.

 

[strollingbones]

o hell kuwaitt did the same thing....this aint new ...and it certianly is not new from israel...

israel is willing to let american fight and die..for them or by them...they could care less

 

[editec]

We get to test our weapons technology and we probably get some help major with MidEast intelligence, too.

 

[Shogun]

you are kidding, right OP? Enjoy your new Scarlet A.

 

[amrchaos]

Here is a different question.

If you have a friend, do you keep tabs on what they owe you and you owe them?

If so, why do you consider them a friend. I would call them an "associate" because I have yet to come to trust them.

Well, my dear associates, what do you think?

 

[del]

Here is a different question.

If you have a friend, do you keep tabs on what they owe you and you owe them?

If so, why do you consider them a friend. I would call them an "associate" because I have yet to come to trust them.

Well, my dear associates, what do you think?

nations don't have friends.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Here is a different question.

If you have a friend, do you keep tabs on what they owe you and you owe them?

If so, why do you consider them a friend. I would call them an "associate" because I have yet to come to trust them.

Well, my dear associates, what do you think?

Nations have interests not friends. If our nations are "friendly" it is because we have so many similar interests.

To take that a step further, friends don't spy on friends, yet Israel has maintained lengthy, damaging spy rings in our country. Walker.

But, to the OP, we buy Israel because we believe it is in our interests to do so. The question that isn't asked, but implied in the OP is whether it is in "our" interest to do it in a foreign policy sense or in an internal political sense.

In other words, looking through the lens of Morganthauian Real Politick, does it make national political sense for us to support Israel to the extent we do given the foreign policy trade-offs we are required to make in addition to the billions in transfer payments?

Or, do we support them because you can't get elected president or, if elected, you can't govern, if you throw Israel to the wolves? If that is the case, what does that say about the use of Jewish power to influence the American political system?

 

[amrchaos]

Here is a different question.

If you have a friend, do you keep tabs on what they owe you and you owe them?

If so, why do you consider them a friend. I would call them an "associate" because I have yet to come to trust them.

Well, my dear associates, what do you think?

Nations have interests not friends. If our nations are "friendly" it is because we have so many similar interests.

To take that a step further, friends don't spy on friends, yet Israel has maintained lengthy, damaging spy rings in our country. Walker.

But, to the OP, we buy Israel because we believe it is in our interests to do so. The question that isn't asked, but implied in the OP is whether it is in "our" interest to do it in a foreign policy sense or in an internal political sense.

In other words, looking through the lens of Morganthauian Real Politick, does it make national political sense for us to support Israel to the extent we do given the foreign policy trade-offs we are required to make in addition to the billions in transfer payments?

Or, do we support them because you can't get elected president or, if elected, you can't govern, if you throw Israel to the wolves? If that is the case, what does that say about the use of Jewish power to influence the American political system?

If nations ally with nations of similiar interests, how are our interests differ from, say , Iran? What interests allows Israel to be an Ally and Iran an enemy?

Would it not be more beneficial to ally with Iran, toss Israel to the wolves(or to her enemies like Syria) and benefit from an alliance in which our new ally will grow stronger through its oil revenues and does not need any economic benefits or weaponry from us?

I guess the question of why is Israel so exalted in our political rhetoric and among our allies is a very interesting topic. At least through this definitions.

Israel is an associate. We can spurn her anytime we wish!! So what hold us to her side?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Here is an idea.

The usual reason we hear for Israel not being in the fight with us is that it would somehow damage Arab perception of our relationship with Israel. Besides that being an absolute laugh, why don't we get Israel on the ground in Korea? We're spread prttey thin, Korea needs to be dealt with. We've made Israels problems our problem for 40 years. Half the world has committed with us to fight Israels enemies. Can we not get a few Israeli troops to join us in South Korea? Or would that damage Korean perception of our relationship with Israel?

We have every bananna republic under the US wing sending a few troops, some support, something toward our efforts to be world police. Will Israel ever put a shoulder to the wheel?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Here is a different question.

If you have a friend, do you keep tabs on what they owe you and you owe them?

If so, why do you consider them a friend. I would call them an "associate" because I have yet to come to trust them.

Well, my dear associates, what do you think?

I don't keep a written tab on friends, although we do keep a written tab on Israel, for the most part.

I actually had a few friends over the years where I came to the same conclusion. They never come by to hang out. They don't invite me to their party. They don't come to my party. They just call everytime they have a flat tire or need some money. And the same with Israel, I gave that set up YEARS without a question. And then, one day I had a flat. My friend was busy with something. Then I needed a few dollars to get me through until payday. My friend said he had been saving up for a new hunting rifle and couldn't spare the dough. Then I broke my leg and needed a ride to the hospital. My friend said if I could call him, why didn't I just call a cab?

I decided the friendship wasn't working out.

 

[PoliticalChic]

We get to test our weapons technology and we probably get some help major with MidEast intelligence, too.

Correctly stated.

And from Stratfor.com:
"Netanyahu has argued in the past that Israel’s relationship to the United States was not as important to Israel as it once was. U.S. aid as a percentage of Israel’s gross domestic product has plunged. Israel is not facing powerful states, and it is not facing a situation like 1973, when Israeli survival depended on aid being rushed in from the United States. The technology transfer now runs both ways, and the United States relies on Israeli intelligence quite a bit. In other words, over the past generation, Israel has moved from a dependent relationship with the United States to one of mutual dependence. "

 

[toomuchtime_]

I am trying to coral this issue into one topic so I don't have to pollute other topics everytime someone mentions how great Israel is for us. So here is my topic for the issue.

When do we ever get to cash in a favor from Israel?

For over 40 years we have steadfastly stood by the Jewish state. We have sent billions, every year. We have sent military aid and weapons. We have bought peace for her with Egypt and Jordan. We looked the other way when she attacked and sank the USS Liberty, forsaking our own men and national interest. An action that surely would provoke war with almost any other nation. We have spent well over a trillion dollars, a tenth of our national debt, on this one nation. They have that undeclared nuclear arsenal too. No one else gets away with that. But we let our good friend slide.

We went to war in Vietnam. Israel wasn't there. No problem. She had problems of her own. Can't blame her there.

We went to Iraq and Kuwait. Israel wasn't there. No problem. The excuse that we wouldn't want the Arabs to find out that we favor Israel was pretty thin, but no problem. We've got this. Sit tight.

We were attacked by Al Qaeda. 3,000 dead, at once. Why? What was the stated reason for attacking us? Israel. Surely our friend won't stand for this. They won't let this stand. They will surely join us in this! No. They stayed home for Afghanistan too.

Iraq II. I just knew it was time to cash in a favor on this one. With so many of our friends abandonning us, begging Turkey and former soviet teritorries for a place to land an airplane or two, needing somewhere for our boys to get their supplies, surely Israel will at least let us use a base? Land a plane or two? Can we stop and wipe our ass for God sake? No. American military isn't allowed to use Israel. Not to attack the common enemy, not to attack the people who killed our citizens becasue we stuck by her for 40 years, damn it all, we were there.


You have to be completely blind or completely invested in one religious ideaology or another to consider this nation a friend. It makes no sense. I had held out that this was a relationship that we should keep up, no matter the cost, because someday, we would need an allie in that part of the world. People, that day has come and gone. If the day is coming, WHEN? WHEN IS IT?

Never, is the answer. Israel is a one way proposition. Always has been. If they are starving, feed them. If they are naked, cloth them. But by God, they have enough weapons to defend themselves and they sure as hell don't intend to use them for anything else.

Total US aid to Israel from 1949 through 2007 is approximately $101,190,800,000.00, not a trillion dollars. Of that total, approximately $53,643,400,000.00 was in the form of credits to buy military hardware from US companies. This means that not one dollar of this amount ever left the American economy and that it provides $53,643,400,000.00 of American jobs, and when you consider that nearly all defense industry jobs are high paying union jobs, the total of local, state, and federal taxes paid by the companies, their suppliers and their employees and the companies these employees do business with and their employees, etc., as the money circulates through our economy may well equal the entire amount of the aid. So while this military aid is of immense value to Israel, it costs the US economy virtually nothing.

Of the approximately $47,547,000,000.00 in non military aid Israel has received from the US since 1949, approximately $39,016,000,000.00 was paid prior to 1997 and the annual amount of non military aid has been steadily reduced since 1979 according to a scheduled agreed to by Jimmy Carter and Israel as a part of the three party talks that led to the Israel-Egypt peace treaty. In 2007, total non military aid to Israel was $160,200,000.00 and is scheduled to go to zero in the near future.

There is no evidence that Israel ever refused any US request for military or intelligence assistance, and the belief that the US wanted or would have allowed any public Israeli assistance in its ME or central Asian wars could be an indication of brain damage.

 

[Sweet Willy]

I am trying to coral this issue into one topic so I don't have to pollute other topics everytime someone mentions how great Israel is for us. So here is my topic for the issue.

When do we ever get to cash in a favor from Israel?

For over 40 years we have steadfastly stood by the Jewish state. We have sent billions, every year. We have sent military aid and weapons. We have bought peace for her with Egypt and Jordan. We looked the other way when she attacked and sank the USS Liberty, forsaking our own men and national interest. An action that surely would provoke war with almost any other nation. We have spent well over a trillion dollars, a tenth of our national debt, on this one nation. They have that undeclared nuclear arsenal too. No one else gets away with that. But we let our good friend slide.

We went to war in Vietnam. Israel wasn't there. No problem. She had problems of her own. Can't blame her there.

We went to Iraq and Kuwait. Israel wasn't there. No problem. The excuse that we wouldn't want the Arabs to find out that we favor Israel was pretty thin, but no problem. We've got this. Sit tight.

We were attacked by Al Qaeda. 3,000 dead, at once. Why? What was the stated reason for attacking us? Israel. Surely our friend won't stand for this. They won't let this stand. They will surely join us in this! No. They stayed home for Afghanistan too.

Iraq II. I just knew it was time to cash in a favor on this one. With so many of our friends abandonning us, begging Turkey and former soviet teritorries for a place to land an airplane or two, needing somewhere for our boys to get their supplies, surely Israel will at least let us use a base? Land a plane or two? Can we stop and wipe our ass for God sake? No. American military isn't allowed to use Israel. Not to attack the common enemy, not to attack the people who killed our citizens becasue we stuck by her for 40 years, damn it all, we were there.


You have to be completely blind or completely invested in one religious ideaology or another to consider this nation a friend. It makes no sense. I had held out that this was a relationship that we should keep up, no matter the cost, because someday, we would need an allie in that part of the world. People, that day has come and gone. If the day is coming, WHEN? WHEN IS IT?

Never, is the answer. Israel is a one way proposition. Always has been. If they are starving, feed them. If they are naked, cloth them. But by God, they have enough weapons to defend themselves and they sure as hell don't intend to use them for anything else.

Total US aid to Israel from 1949 through 2007 is approximately $101,190,800,000.00, not a trillion dollars. Of that total, approximately $53,643,400,000.00 was in the form of credits to buy military hardware from US companies. This means that not one dollar of this amount ever left the American economy and that it provides $53,643,400,000.00 of American jobs, and when you consider that nearly all defense industry jobs are high paying union jobs, the total of local, state, and federal taxes paid by the companies, their suppliers and their employees and the companies these employees do business with and their employees, etc., as the money circulates through our economy may well equal the entire amount of the aid. So while this military aid is of immense value to Israel, it costs the US economy virtually nothing.

Of the approximately $47,547,000,000.00 in non military aid Israel has received from the US since 1949, approximately $39,016,000,000.00 was paid prior to 1997 and the annual amount of non military aid has been steadily reduced since 1979 according to a scheduled agreed to by Jimmy Carter and Israel as a part of the three party talks that led to the Israel-Egypt peace treaty. In 2007, total non military aid to Israel was $160,200,000.00 and is scheduled to go to zero in the near future.

There is no evidence that Israel ever refused any US request for military or intelligence assistance, and the belief that the US wanted or would have allowed any public Israeli assistance in its ME or central Asian wars could be an indication of brain damage.

Estimates of the total cost of our Israeli allie is 3 trillion. 108 billion is the amount in direct aid payments. There is MUCH more to the cost.

Instead of telling us that allowing assitance would be brain damage, please, explain why our friend isn't allowed to help us. Please, tell us why we can't land or refuel our planes there. Would the Arabs find out our terrible secret? Maybe someone else would find out that we favor Israel? Exactly who would learn anything they don't already know? Consodering that we have been attacked by these people and they have stated the reason was Israel, tell me, what is to be hidden by this brain damaged attempt to hide a secret that is right out in the open?

 

[Sweet Willy]

We get to test our weapons technology and we probably get some help major with MidEast intelligence, too.

Correctly stated.

And from Stratfor.com:
"Netanyahu has argued in the past that Israel’s relationship to the United States was not as important to Israel as it once was. U.S. aid as a percentage of Israel’s gross domestic product has plunged. Israel is not facing powerful states, and it is not facing a situation like 1973, when Israeli survival depended on aid being rushed in from the United States. The technology transfer now runs both ways, and the United States relies on Israeli intelligence quite a bit. In other words, over the past generation, Israel has moved from a dependent relationship with the United States to one of mutual dependence. "

Yes, I've heard the intelligence point until I want to puke. That is some pretty expensive intelligence. Is that why Israel plants spies in our country? Do they have intelligence deals with our enemies too?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Total identifiable costs come to almost $3 trillion. About 60 percent, well over half, of those costs—about $1.7 trillion—arose from the U.S. defense of Israel, where most of that amount has been incurred since 1973

The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion

 

[toomuchtime_]

I am trying to coral this issue into one topic so I don't have to pollute other topics everytime someone mentions how great Israel is for us. So here is my topic for the issue.

When do we ever get to cash in a favor from Israel?

For over 40 years we have steadfastly stood by the Jewish state. We have sent billions, every year. We have sent military aid and weapons. We have bought peace for her with Egypt and Jordan. We looked the other way when she attacked and sank the USS Liberty, forsaking our own men and national interest. An action that surely would provoke war with almost any other nation. We have spent well over a trillion dollars, a tenth of our national debt, on this one nation. They have that undeclared nuclear arsenal too. No one else gets away with that. But we let our good friend slide.

We went to war in Vietnam. Israel wasn't there. No problem. She had problems of her own. Can't blame her there.

We went to Iraq and Kuwait. Israel wasn't there. No problem. The excuse that we wouldn't want the Arabs to find out that we favor Israel was pretty thin, but no problem. We've got this. Sit tight.

We were attacked by Al Qaeda. 3,000 dead, at once. Why? What was the stated reason for attacking us? Israel. Surely our friend won't stand for this. They won't let this stand. They will surely join us in this! No. They stayed home for Afghanistan too.

Iraq II. I just knew it was time to cash in a favor on this one. With so many of our friends abandonning us, begging Turkey and former soviet teritorries for a place to land an airplane or two, needing somewhere for our boys to get their supplies, surely Israel will at least let us use a base? Land a plane or two? Can we stop and wipe our ass for God sake? No. American military isn't allowed to use Israel. Not to attack the common enemy, not to attack the people who killed our citizens becasue we stuck by her for 40 years, damn it all, we were there.


You have to be completely blind or completely invested in one religious ideaology or another to consider this nation a friend. It makes no sense. I had held out that this was a relationship that we should keep up, no matter the cost, because someday, we would need an allie in that part of the world. People, that day has come and gone. If the day is coming, WHEN? WHEN IS IT?

Never, is the answer. Israel is a one way proposition. Always has been. If they are starving, feed them. If they are naked, cloth them. But by God, they have enough weapons to defend themselves and they sure as hell don't intend to use them for anything else.

Total US aid to Israel from 1949 through 2007 is approximately $101,190,800,000.00, not a trillion dollars. Of that total, approximately $53,643,400,000.00 was in the form of credits to buy military hardware from US companies. This means that not one dollar of this amount ever left the American economy and that it provides $53,643,400,000.00 of American jobs, and when you consider that nearly all defense industry jobs are high paying union jobs, the total of local, state, and federal taxes paid by the companies, their suppliers and their employees and the companies these employees do business with and their employees, etc., as the money circulates through our economy may well equal the entire amount of the aid. So while this military aid is of immense value to Israel, it costs the US economy virtually nothing.

Of the approximately $47,547,000,000.00 in non military aid Israel has received from the US since 1949, approximately $39,016,000,000.00 was paid prior to 1997 and the annual amount of non military aid has been steadily reduced since 1979 according to a scheduled agreed to by Jimmy Carter and Israel as a part of the three party talks that led to the Israel-Egypt peace treaty. In 2007, total non military aid to Israel was $160,200,000.00 and is scheduled to go to zero in the near future.

There is no evidence that Israel ever refused any US request for military or intelligence assistance, and the belief that the US wanted or would have allowed any public Israeli assistance in its ME or central Asian wars could be an indication of brain damage.

Estimates of the total cost of our Israeli allie is 3 trillion. 108 billion is the amount in direct aid payments. There is MUCH more to the cost.

Instead of telling us that allowing assitance would be brain damage, please, explain why our friend isn't allowed to help us. Please, tell us why we can't land or refuel our planes there. Would the Arabs find out our terrible secret? Maybe someone else would find out that we favor Israel? Exactly who would learn anything they don't already know? Consodering that we have been attacked by these people and they have stated the reason was Israel, tell me, what is to be hidden by this brain damaged attempt to hide a secret that is right out in the open?

$3 trillion is a complete fiction. $1 trillion is a complete fiction. According to US government figures, total aid to Israel is as I presented it.

File:US aid to Israel.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See table 5.

It is another fiction to say the US was refused the use of Israeli facilities or that Israel refused to participate in any of the ME or central Asian wars. You seem to think it was foolish of the US not to allow Israel to participate or provide logistical assistance, and I agree with you. It only served to validate Muslim/Arab refusal to recognize Israel as a legitimate participant in the ME, and that has made eventual peace there a more remote possibility.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Total identifiable costs come to almost $3 trillion. About 60 percent, well over half, of those costs—about $1.7 trillion—arose from the U.S. defense of Israel, where most of that amount has been incurred since 1973

The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion

Your link arrives at $3 trillion by ascribing the cost of every problem or alliance in the ME or central Asia, including aid to Turkey and Greece, to our relationship with Israel. That's really just too stupid and dishonest to comment on further. US government figures show our aid to Israel since 1949 is exactly as I have presented it.

File:US aid to Israel.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See table 5.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Total US aid to Israel from 1949 through 2007 is approximately $101,190,800,000.00, not a trillion dollars. Of that total, approximately $53,643,400,000.00 was in the form of credits to buy military hardware from US companies. This means that not one dollar of this amount ever left the American economy and that it provides $53,643,400,000.00 of American jobs, and when you consider that nearly all defense industry jobs are high paying union jobs, the total of local, state, and federal taxes paid by the companies, their suppliers and their employees and the companies these employees do business with and their employees, etc., as the money circulates through our economy may well equal the entire amount of the aid. So while this military aid is of immense value to Israel, it costs the US economy virtually nothing.

Of the approximately $47,547,000,000.00 in non military aid Israel has received from the US since 1949, approximately $39,016,000,000.00 was paid prior to 1997 and the annual amount of non military aid has been steadily reduced since 1979 according to a scheduled agreed to by Jimmy Carter and Israel as a part of the three party talks that led to the Israel-Egypt peace treaty. In 2007, total non military aid to Israel was $160,200,000.00 and is scheduled to go to zero in the near future.

There is no evidence that Israel ever refused any US request for military or intelligence assistance, and the belief that the US wanted or would have allowed any public Israeli assistance in its ME or central Asian wars could be an indication of brain damage.

Estimates of the total cost of our Israeli allie is 3 trillion. 108 billion is the amount in direct aid payments. There is MUCH more to the cost.

Instead of telling us that allowing assitance would be brain damage, please, explain why our friend isn't allowed to help us. Please, tell us why we can't land or refuel our planes there. Would the Arabs find out our terrible secret? Maybe someone else would find out that we favor Israel? Exactly who would learn anything they don't already know? Consodering that we have been attacked by these people and they have stated the reason was Israel, tell me, what is to be hidden by this brain damaged attempt to hide a secret that is right out in the open?

$3 trillion is a complete fiction. $1 trillion is a complete fiction. According to US government figures, total aid to Israel is as I presented it.

File:US aid to Israel.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See table 5.

It is another fiction to say the US was refused the use of Israeli facilities or that Israel refused to participate in any of the ME or central Asian wars. You seem to think it was foolish of the US not to allow Israel to participate or provide logistical assistance, and I agree with you. It only served to validate Muslim/Arab refusal to recognize Israel as a legitimate participant in the ME, and that has made eventual peace there a more remote possibility.

I agree it has been a mistake to refuse Israeli support and a mistake where it was not offered.

You can count direct aid to Israel until the cows come home. It isn't the true cost of the relationship. How much is total paid to Egypt? Why was this agreement made and money paid? What were the conditions?

Who pays the interest on the money we borrow to give Israel? How much is it?

When Israel uses it's US aid to invest in US T Bills, who pays for that and how much do they collect?

Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.

Economist tallies swelling cost of Israel to US | csmonitor.com