Widely acceptable bigotry

[manifold]

First you can't have racial bias against a nationality like American.

Psst. I included the word racist to expose the donkeys with poor reading comprehension. No offense.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Gunny]

And then of course you open your mouth and prove there are bigots in the northeast, too. Noble of you to make that sacrifice for your southern bretheren.

I think he WAS making the point there are bigots in the Northeast. The opinion most Yankees hold of Southerners isn't anywhere near flattering.

having been stationed in the Northeast for a bit, I surely don't see what it is y'all think you have over anyone else.

 

[Gurdari]

I've always found it rather interesting in my encounters with non-Americans how many of them are able to make derogatory generalizations about Americans without realizing or acknowledging that they are being predjudicial bigots. I'm talking about educated, intelligent people who would never make similar statements about Blacks, Jews, Russians, Chinese or any other subgroup of humanity as they are aware that to do so is at least bigotry, if not completely racist. So why do they have a blind spot where Americans are concerned? I have a theory. Two words: Inferiority complex.

You should see how enraged they get when I point this out. The backpeddling and tap dancing they do is a thing of beauty to behold.

Just sayin.

Like most countries, there is a difference between the 'people' and the way the government acts... meaning many that hate how Israel acts, or hate how the US acts... do not hate the PEOPLE, just the government and its policies.

Of course many an administration makes their interests out to be the people's interests (even when they are disparate).

I would bet the majority of the America bashers point their finger at Bush for example, more than at some random US family on vacation, or the regular people trying to make ends meet.

Just saying.

 

[Gunny]

Like most countries, there is a difference between the 'people' and the way the government acts... meaning many that hate how Israel acts, or hate how the US acts... do not hate the PEOPLE, just the government and its policies.

Of course many an administration makes their interests out to be the people's interests (even when they are disparate).

I would bet the majority of the America bashers point their finger at Bush for example, more than at some random US family on vacation, or the regular people trying to make ends meet.

Just saying.

You are probably correct; however, when those American bashers are pointing that finger, they are pointing it at the American that is in front of them, not some guy in DC.

It's been my experience that in physical presence, you are the embodiment of that person's preconceived notions of what Americans are, even if those notions are based on the actions of the US government.

And why not? We do it to ourselves. How many political or religious arguments have you been involved in on message boards where based on a political or religious label, you spend more time defending against accusations of holding beliefs you don't actually hold than you do making whatever point it is you are trying to make?

For instance, I don't know how many times I've had to point out I'm not a Republican because I'm conservative. Nor am I a fire and brimstone, condemning to Hell evangelizing zealot because I am a Christian.

Just saying ...

 

[Gurdari]

I do my best to ask people what they think (and then attack haha).
I work with many people who are of either Canadian or American heritage, but work in the other nation (so lots to talk about politically) and living up north is unique in that you're in a different nation, but so close by living a similar lifestyle that we can discuss the deeper things without having to learn as much about political systems/cultures that would be needed were a Peruvian and a Norwegian chatting for example.

One big difference is news. I think up here you get a less nationalistic perspective, and a bit more time is spent delving into relations between events, and other sides of the story (for example, the 'left-leaning' Toronto Star has articles and op-ed pieces that praise military interventions and the war on terror, while other articles all but say the US is a terrorist state itself - agree or not, that's a wide range of debate for one paper).

Well, that was off-topic. I'm done!

 

[tigerbob]

Fine.

I've never met anyone with this attitude either. Yet I've met many Americans that look down on the French, Canadians, etc...does that mean they have an inferiority complex?

You must have been staying in a lot.

 

[tigerbob]

On second thought, maybe it's your own attitude that makes them feel free to make derogatory generalizations about Americans, hmmm?

I live by the golden rule so maybe it isn't just luck.

Actually, he's making a fair observation.

 

[Ravi]

You must have been staying in a lot.

Incorrect.

 

[Ravi]

Actually, he's making a fair observation.

That I'm lucky that non-Americans don't make derogatory generalizations about Americans around me? I don't think it has anything to do with luck at all. On the contrary, my charm, poise, and all around lovableness leads non-Americans to make complimentary generalizations about Americans.

 

[tigerbob]

That I'm lucky that non-Americans don't make derogatory generalizations about Americans around me? I don't think it has anything to do with luck at all. On the contrary, my charm, poise, and all around lovableness leads non-Americans to make complimentary generalizations about Americans.

LOL, but no, not that.

I've always found it rather interesting in my encounters with non-Americans how many of them are able to make derogatory generalizations about Americans without realizing or acknowledging that they are being predjudicial bigots.

That.

I'm sure that if you were more 'visible' then your charm and loveableness would instantly persuade the people he is referring to that the US is charming and loveable. It's just that, until your media profile is higher, many people in other parts of the world do tend to form opinions about the US based on what they see.

What they see is:
- A President who they take to be something of a buffoon
- Foreign policy that they perceive as having a touch of the schoolyard bully about it.
- An approach to environmental issues that they see as self-serving

I won't bother to go on but I trust that clears up what I'm talking about. Now, I don't necessarily agree with any of those characterisations, but it is very easy for people who do not see the debate that goes on in America to form opinions about what parts of the debate the media do cover, and of course (outside the US) it is generally the policy and not the debate about the policy that gets the coverage.

If they don't agree / like the policy that is reported, then they tend take an unfavourable view of the US which leads them to make derogatory statements.

These derogatory statements are of course generalisations because they apply them to America as a whole, and they are prejudicial because they are based on an incomplete understanding of the debate.

The word bigot may be a little strong, but certainly biased.

 

[Ravi]

Okay, I think I see what you are saying. I still have to disagree, because he was talking about Americans, not our leaders and foreign policy blunders. You yourself claim you don't think Americans are the sum total of Bush and his idiocy, am I right? I've know non-Americans that have called Bush Little Hitler and questioned the wisdom of our foreign policy, but I've never known a non-American to make remarks that made me feel they thought they were superior to us. Or inferior to us, for that matter.

As far as I know from my own interactions, we are not judged as a whole by the stupidity of our leaders. I've never felt what he is claiming to feel from anyone but a couple of bozos in Utah. And they were most definitely Americans.

 

[Gunny]

That I'm lucky that non-Americans don't make derogatory generalizations about Americans around me? I don't think it has anything to do with luck at all. On the contrary, my charm, poise, and all around lovableness leads non-Americans to make complimentary generalizations about Americans.

Or is it the 12 guage pump you're holding?

 

[tigerbob]

You yourself claim you don't think Americans are the sum total of Bush and his idiocy, am I right? I've know non-Americans that have called Bush Little Hitler and questioned the wisdom of our foreign policy, but I've never known a non-American to make remarks that made me feel they thought they were superior to us.

Correct. I would say that judging an entire country (any country) by the standards / behaviours / opinions of one or a few individuals is facile in the extreme.

But, certainly in Europe, people are a lot more critical of the US than ever before and for the most part it seems that the criticism is generated by concerns about US policy in the areas I mentioned earlier. I have, on more occasions than I care to remember, heard otherwise intelligent people say "Americans this, Americans that" based purely on disagreement with what they understand to be the policies of the Bush administration.

Does that mean they are bigots? In general probably not, but the manner in which they express themselves (i.e. applying their comments to "Americans") could give rise to that interpretation.

 

[Ravi]

I hope we can stop the downward slide in attitude toward Americans before we do become the target of bigotry.

 

[BrianH]

Ok...first off, what non-Americans must realize, is that we Americans have a corrupted media that feeds us images from other countries on a daily basis. When the U.S. does something, we see (on the news) thousands of demonstrators from other countries with slogans like "Death to Amrerica" and similar stuff. I think that American's have a highly held belief (right now) that the rest of the world hates our guts, when in fact, the new almost always portrays the very negative side of things. So when you see this kind of talk on the message boards, there is a reason for it. It's not because all Americans are like this. Please do not generalize. For example, just the other day, we see this swarm of Serbians burning down the U.S. Embassy and protesting against "America." (Which still makes me laugh because America is not a country, it's acutally a super-continent made up of two smaller continents. In case anyone was wondering) For another example about the media, Vladamir Putin is offering Nukes to Serbia. We hear this as "the Russians are offering nukes to Serbia." Anyone can see how this could be misconstrued. However, most of us are smart enough to realize that it's not the people that all get together and say, "hey lets go attack Iraq." We are all "under" our own governments. We have a say about who gets into office, but no say about what happens once he/she is in office. I heard a WWII veteran speak one time and he said that under different circumstances, him and the (german soldiers he was fighting) could have been good friends. Both of you guys are falling victim to bigotry. The fact is: We all have our differences, hence, we have stereotypes. Is that such a bad thing? No, because that's what makes us different. When you think of Mexicans what do you think of? Tacos, Cerveza, pinatas...etc. And there's nothing wrong with that. When you think of the French you think of...french fries, a guy in a beret smoking a long cigerette, etc.... I'm not being mean about this , but it's the stereotypes that make us different. Sure there are certain aspects of different cultures that we don't like, but that's life, that's what makes them different. And if you can't get used to that, then you need to stay at home and live an uneventful life.