Why you hate unions?

[Wry Catcher]

Solyndra and the Iraq war....really wry?
You need to start saying no to drugs....it's frying your brain.

Weren't they both an investment in energy? I have a vague recollection that Haliburton is in same way engaged in energy production or exploration or exploitation, and that the VP of the US under GWB was somehow involved with Haliburton, and, someone once said, I believe, the invasion and occupation of Iraq would be paid for by the oil in Iraq's ground. Am I wrong? Are you too going to call me a liar as did the lying coward Don't Taz Me Bro?

I won't call you a liar, but you just fell for the left echo chamber's talking points.
If Iraq was all about energy...what the hell happened to the energy? So it must not have been about the oil in Iraq.
Haliburton's chief production has to do with infrastructure.
Several presidents, both democrats and republicans used Haliburton because of their global exposure. If you want to go with the non bid contract thingy.....How many years would it take to get the job done going through that process....very few companies are set up for what Haliburton is set up for.

If we were to invade and occupy a nation because said nation had WMD's and oppressed their people the obvious target would have been N. Korea.

It seems Halliburton has several interests and oil is one of them. See:

Oilfield Services | Halliburton - Solving Challenges. - Halliburton

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Why you hate auxiliary verbs?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The unions didn't "alienate" the Republican Party.

The Republican party "alienated" the unions.

That's debatable. In 1984, 60% of union households voted for Ronald Reagan. But their leadership (except for the Teamsters) all got behind Mondale. Even in 2008, 40% of union guys still voted for McCain.

I'm not trying to claim that all union members are Democrats.

But it's not hard to figure out why unions themselves support Democrats when Republicans are generally openly anti-union.

If you were the political director of SEIU, would you give money to the same party that's trying to destroy collective bargaining rights and pass right-to-work laws?

Or would you donate to the party that's at least nominally on the side of unions?

 

[Cuyo]

Shame on them for alienating one party, then.

The end result is that the Democrats take unions for granted, and the Republicans try to confound them at every oppurtunity.

What was the last really good thing private sector unions got for their unflagging support of Democrats? (not Public Sector, mind you but private sector.)

Perhaps they're not trying to play political "Chess." Perhaps if they did they'd be more successful to their ends. I'll stipulate that either is possible.

Of course, it really doesn't address my post at all.

Well, actually, it does.

If Democrats serve their best interests, then you should have fine, shining examples of how they've benefitted.

I don't limit this criticism to just the unions. I think the Christian Right has precious little to show for their unflagging support of the GOP.

Elections should be exactly that, a bidding for your vote. But some groups take the first bid and don't get what their vote is worth.

The unions have been losing their influence since the Gipper; Not because they didn't support Republicans, but because Republicans' philosophy is directly at odds with union goals. Republicans came to power and crushed them, plain and simple.

Why would unions ever support candidates of a party so profoundly opposed to workers' rights?

The kissing-cousin relationship between Christians and the GOP is far more baffling IMO. I'm not clear on what Republicans have to offer Christians, other than a far more thorough readiness to pander to them.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm not trying to claim that all union members are Democrats.

But it's not hard to figure out why unions themselves support Democrats when Republicans are generally openly anti-union.

If you were the political director of SEIU, would you give money to the same party that's trying to destroy collective bargaining rights and pass right-to-work laws?

Or would you donate to the party that's at least nominally on the side of unions?

NO, the political director wouldn't do that, but the rank and file guy might.

The guy who can't move up despite his merit and work ethic because there are six guys with seniority over him who phone it in, but they can't be fired, demoted, transferred etc. with out a union hassle.

And frankly, I have a problem with SEIU and every other government union. I have no problem with private sector unions deciding what a fair division of the profits are.

I have a huge problem with the public sector unions bullying politicians into raising our taxes while providing less and less service...

 

[JoeB131]

The unions have been losing their influence since the Gipper; Not because they didn't support Republicans, but because Republicans' philosophy is directly at odds with union goals. Republicans came to power and crushed them, plain and simple.

Why would unions ever support candidates of a party so profoundly opposed to workers' rights?

I think you fail to see a difference between workers rights and union rights. They aren't the same thing.

Fact is, no one out there in the private sector is clamoring to form new unions or unionize shops that aren't. If you are in a union job, great, but you don't want some third party coming in on what is already a dicey relationship with your employer who is already looking towards slapping a padlock on the front door and moving to China.

The kissing-cousin relationship between Christians and the GOP is far more baffling IMO. I'm not clear on what Republicans have to offer Christians, other than a far more thorough readiness to pander to them.

Well, it's simple enough. There is behavior that some Christians think is wrong. One party is willing to excuse the behavior, one is willing to say it is wrong. They don't do that much about it, but at least they are willing to point out the wrongness of it.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I'm not trying to claim that all union members are Democrats.

But it's not hard to figure out why unions themselves support Democrats when Republicans are generally openly anti-union.

If you were the political director of SEIU, would you give money to the same party that's trying to destroy collective bargaining rights and pass right-to-work laws?

Or would you donate to the party that's at least nominally on the side of unions?

NO, the political director wouldn't do that, but the rank and file guy might.

The guy who can't move up despite his merit and work ethic because there are six guys with seniority over him who phone it in, but they can't be fired, demoted, transferred etc. with out a union hassle.

And frankly, I have a problem with SEIU and every other government union. I have no problem with private sector unions deciding what a fair division of the profits are.

I have a huge problem with the public sector unions bullying politicians into raising our taxes while providing less and less service...

SEIU is only partially a public-sector union.

The majority of members of SEIU are in the private sector, in health care and building services.

 

[freedombecki]

I've got mixed feelings on this subject.

I grew up in a union household, and frankly, was glad that the union had my family's back, especially in those last few years when my dad was dying of the lung cancer from the asbestos his employers told him was totally safe to work with.

But I also think Unions have lost their way. They've become inflexible, they don't recognize merit- in fact, in some ways, they discourage it.

Union membership is a sweet deal for someone who lucks into it, but so is a rent controlled apartment. The problem is a deal has to work for everyone involved, not just one party.

Ideally, a relationship between employer and employee should be win-win. The employee gets a good paycheck, the employer gets the employees a-game and enhancement to his business. It doesn't work that way, with or without a union, because one side or the other will try to take advantage.

I agree with you, JoeB131. It's too bad businesses are dependent on what they can get for their product and services from a fickle public. There just aren't any guarantees in thin times, either.

No, but in thin times, there should be shared sacrifice. You don't keep paying the CEO's 8 figures when you are laying people off. Maybe taking him down to six figures won't save that many jobs, but it shows that we are all taking a beating here.

The fat cats got their bailouts, they got their bonuses, their stocks have bounced back, and none of them are looking at the inside of a jail cell even though more than a few deserve to be. The only folks who are still in a recession are the working class schlubs like me who have seen minimal raises in the last three years after taking a hit when the recession started.

That's a great theory, Joeb131, but often a business owner becomes ill and unable to run his successful business, and he wants to keep it going, but can't find a buyer who will treat his employees right. His plight worsens, so he makes a legal and binding business arrangement with a hot shot denizen with a resume that tells him he will earn his keep. Usually such a strategy will prosper a business, but occasionally things go south a few years later anyway, when the owner retires to take care of his health issue. The Union doesn't respect this contract but the lawyers make it stick if called to task.

I'm sorry the tooth fairy is not visiting American businesses lately, but employers are sick with worry about all the fees piled on by the thought of higher taxes, higher insurance rates, higher wages being requested, but markets shrinking as the EU goes into freefall and the Administration promotes sure-loser businesses with higher taxes the American people will have to pay to be used in this way. I'm unhappy officer Terry of AZ was killed with a weapon furnished by our own government and nobody is taking responsibility for it.

Sometimes, even in a recession like this one, people have good things happen to them. I'm putting the American worker on my prayer list tonight, and I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but I'm hoping things will go okay until we can put in good business people who have a heart for working people too and don't slam the info door on people based on party or any other civil matter to cover lying, obfuscating, cheating and wrongdoing.

 

[Meister]

Weren't they both an investment in energy? I have a vague recollection that Haliburton is in same way engaged in energy production or exploration or exploitation, and that the VP of the US under GWB was somehow involved with Haliburton, and, someone once said, I believe, the invasion and occupation of Iraq would be paid for by the oil in Iraq's ground. Am I wrong? Are you too going to call me a liar as did the lying coward Don't Taz Me Bro?

I won't call you a liar, but you just fell for the left echo chamber's talking points.
If Iraq was all about energy...what the hell happened to the energy? So it must not have been about the oil in Iraq.
Haliburton's chief production has to do with infrastructure.
Several presidents, both democrats and republicans used Haliburton because of their global exposure. If you want to go with the non bid contract thingy.....How many years would it take to get the job done going through that process....very few companies are set up for what Haliburton is set up for.

If we were to invade and occupy a nation because said nation had WMD's and oppressed their people the obvious target would have been N. Korea.

It seems Halliburton has several interests and oil is one of them. See:

Oilfield Services | Halliburton - Solving Challenges. - Halliburton

So Haliburton has several interests and you're going to throw out the "several interests" and just go with oil? That's just really silly on your behalf, wry...especially trying to make your point in that way. It is a fail on your part.

 

[Oddball]

Why you hate unions?

Because they protect perverted douchebags, like this perverted douchebag:

Authorities reveal past complaint about LA teacher - Yahoo! News

He's going to get full pension because he resigned before he got fired.

The CTA is pure scum.

C'mon you liberoidal hack fuck sticks...Defend this travesty.

I defy you.

Anyone?

Beuller?

 

[Cuyo]

Why you hate unions?

Because they protect perverted douchebags, like this perverted douchebag:

Authorities reveal past complaint about LA teacher - Yahoo! News

He's going to get full pension because he resigned before he got fired.

The CTA is pure scum.

C'mon you liberoidal hack fuck sticks...Defend this travesty.

I defy you.

Anyone?

Beuller?

Didn't read. Didn't have to. My entire view on unions is blown by this revelation that there might have been a misdeed anecdotally attached to a union at some point.

Wow, at last I can see. I'm going to change my registration to Republican tomorrow. Thank you for opening my eyes.






















Now THAT'S sarcasm.

 

[Oddball]

Cool.

It's always good to know where the degenerate vote lives.

 

[Cuyo]

Cool.

It's always good to know where the degenerate vote lives.

Have you been drinking?

 

[MikeK]

Arguably, trade unions still (theoretically) have the purpose of providing well-trained, skilled labor for many employers. They (theoretically) provide somewhat steady employment for tradespeople who often work jobs that are temporary in nature. Sometimes, things work out as advertised, just don't get on the wrong side of the guy/gal who runs the 'list' at your union hall. And don't think you'll be all that welcome to move somewhere else and find work out of the local hall there, either. "Travelers" often stay at the bottom of the list and unemployed in their field for a long time before they can get a job.

Arguably, labor unions may have once had some purpose, considering the conditions that existed in many industries at the time many unions were established. But the trade unions of today are controlled by the same people who rob others with less in order to enrich themselves. Union leadership works very closely with politicians and big business in order to enrich themselves and glean as much political and economic power as possible for themselves. Union bosses are pretty much the same kind of crooks and thugs who are turning up in both major political parties. The rank and file union members think they're getting a great deal because their union masters deem it expedient to toss a bone or two their way. People are wising up to this, that's why union membership is on the wane.

Hate unions? No. Hate the people who run them, absolutely.

I agree.

Complaining about union leadership is essentially the same as complaining about political leadership. Unions are democratic organizations. Their leaders are elected -- chosen by popular vote, same as the Congress, the Senate and the Presidency. To say unions are no good is to say governments are no good when we know perfectly well that both serve important purposes. Where would we be without them?

The cause of bad unions is the same as the cause of bad government. Complacency, apathy and ignorance on the part of memberships or constituencies are ruinous. Dirty, petty, self-serving politics, laziness and apathy on the part of union members will destroy a union, just as those same factors are slowly destroying the American democracy.

My son-in-law is a Teamster. He works for UPS and is very content with his job. The Shop Steward of his Local believes in fair and honest cooperation with management. When an employee has a legitimate grievance he backs him. When a grievance is opposed to fair policy he won't support it. If the leadership of the UAW had adhered to the same principle that union would not have committed suicide through its excessive demands and unreasonable policies. The UAW membership elected the wrong leaders.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I won't call you a liar, but you just fell for the left echo chamber's talking points.
If Iraq was all about energy...what the hell happened to the energy? So it must not have been about the oil in Iraq.
Haliburton's chief production has to do with infrastructure.
Several presidents, both democrats and republicans used Haliburton because of their global exposure. If you want to go with the non bid contract thingy.....How many years would it take to get the job done going through that process....very few companies are set up for what Haliburton is set up for.

If we were to invade and occupy a nation because said nation had WMD's and oppressed their people the obvious target would have been N. Korea.

It seems Halliburton has several interests and oil is one of them. See:

Oilfield Services | Halliburton - Solving Challenges. - Halliburton

So Haliburton has several interests and you're going to throw out the "several interests" and just go with oil? That's just really silly on your behalf, wry...especially trying to make your point in that way. It is a fail on your part.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Unions cost the taxpayer too much money.

I know because I used to work for a company that had dealings with the state of MA.

There was a construction project to be done at a state housing facility for the mentally retarded.

2 Bathrooms were to be renovated. It was nothing huge. Bathtubs were to be removed so as to install a wheelchair roll in shower some tiling and electrical work was involved.

Here is how unions operate.

The plumber comes in and takes out the tub then he has to relocate the pipes and shower controls to a different section of the wall but he can't cut a hole in the drywall because that's the sheetrock union's job.

He leaves after 2 hours but the state got charged a 4 hour contract mandated minimum.

The next day a guy comes and cuts holes in the walls in about 20 minutes and charges a 4 hour minimum

A couple days later the plumber comes back and installs some new pipes and shower controls then realizes the light and fan have to be relocated so he leaves because he isn't allowed to do the job of the electrician's union. He charges a 4 hour minimum for an hour's work

The next week an electrician shows up and disconnects the light and fan but he cant relocate the light, the fan or the switch because more holes have to be cut in the drywall. He charges a 4 hour minimum for 20 minutes of work.

The sheet rock guys show up.......

Get the picture?

Those 2 small bathroom jobs took 3 months and 37K to complete. I could have done both in a weekend for abut 6 grand.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Unions kill jobs for the real working people.

 

[JoeB131]

Why you hate unions?

Because they protect perverted douchebags, like this perverted douchebag:

Authorities reveal past complaint about LA teacher - Yahoo! News

He's going to get full pension because he resigned before he got fired.

The CTA is pure scum.

C'mon you liberoidal hack fuck sticks...Defend this travesty.

I defy you.

Anyone?

Beuller?

no one would. I don't, and I've brought up similar stories in the past.

But it has little to do with the fact that since unions have declined in the PRIVATE sector, the American middle class has declined with it.

an Employer should be able to fire an incompetent or dangerous worker.

He should not be able to fire someone because she wouldn't give him a blow job.

Because some people abuse the protections that were hard fought for does not mean having the protections was a bad idea.

 

[JoeB131]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Unions kill jobs for the real working people.

Again, it's like blaming the locksmith for your house getting robbed.

The employment rate has not gone up because private sector union membership has gone down. It just means that unlike my Grandfather who was able to retire on a pension from his good union job in the 1960's, I'll probably be working until they take me out feet first.

 

[healthmyths]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

I belonged to the Teamsters, UAW and AFL-CIO and I worked under a closed shop!
Have you?
In one instance I was told I couldn't add a piece of NEW lumber to skids I was repairing as a carpenter apprentice because I was an apprentice and ONLY carpenters were allowed to work on NEW lumber! Stupid!
After graduating from college I worked as management and one afternoon when tow motor drivers were gone I jumped on a towmotor moving an item onto a waiting truck so an order for a customer could be delivered.
I was reprimanded by my boss, a union tow motor driver was paid "double overtime" for my SIN of just trying to get an order out!

So believe me when I say UNIONS have been the cause of outsourcing!
UNIONS have been the cause of severe financial hardship for the ordinary worker!

And finally If these unions were so good, why do they HAVE to force people to join to have a job, TAKE THEIR DUES out of their paycheck bEFORE the worker is paid and
NOT allow worker a say in the FACT that 90% of UNION DONATIONS are paid to
Democrats! ALL FACTS!

OH by the way, the above company.. OUT of business 1,000s of jobs lost why..
UNION !