Why you hate unions?

[Claudette]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Unions cost the taxpayer too much money.

I know because I used to work for a company that had dealings with the state of MA.

There was a construction project to be done at a state housing facility for the mentally retarded.

2 Bathrooms were to be renovated. It was nothing huge. Bathtubs were to be removed so as to install a wheelchair roll in shower some tiling and electrical work was involved.

Here is how unions operate.

The plumber comes in and takes out the tub then he has to relocate the pipes and shower controls to a different section of the wall but he can't cut a hole in the drywall because that's the sheetrock union's job.

He leaves after 2 hours but the state got charged a 4 hour contract mandated minimum.

The next day a guy comes and cuts holes in the walls in about 20 minutes and charges a 4 hour minimum

A couple days later the plumber comes back and installs some new pipes and shower controls then realizes the light and fan have to be relocated so he leaves because he isn't allowed to do the job of the electrician's union. He charges a 4 hour minimum for an hour's work

The next week an electrician shows up and disconnects the light and fan but he cant relocate the light, the fan or the switch because more holes have to be cut in the drywall. He charges a 4 hour minimum for 20 minutes of work.

The sheet rock guys show up.......

Get the picture?

Those 2 small bathroom jobs took 3 months and 37K to complete. I could have done both in a weekend for abut 6 grand.

Yup.

Gotta agree.

I've worked two union jobs in my life only because to get the job you had to be a Union member.

We had guys that were given a job in the AM, in the labor pool. A job that probably took a couple of hours to do. They did the job and disappeared in the mill for the rest of the day. Happened all the time.

We also had guys who would take a 2 or three hour mowing job and turn it into a 3 day event.

Hanging a simple bulletin board that me and my pal Susie could have done int 20 minutes turned into a 3 day event as well.

For God sakes don't change a litebulb. They need an electrician for that.

By all means be a druggie or Alcoholic. The Union will then want the company to pay for your rehab treatment.

If you happen to be a thief and remodle your basement with material you "borrowed" from the company and got caught. Well the Union will go to the wall for ya.

No fan of Unions. Never have been and never will be.

 

[JoeB131]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

I belonged to the Teamsters, UAW and AFL-CIO and I worked under a closed shop!
Have you?
In one instance I was told I couldn't add a piece of NEW lumber to skids I was repairing as a carpenter apprentice because I was an apprentice and ONLY carpenters were allowed to work on NEW lumber! Stupid!
After graduating from college I worked as management and one afternoon when tow motor drivers were gone I jumped on a towmotor moving an item onto a waiting truck so an order for a customer could be delivered.
I was reprimanded by my boss, a union tow motor driver was paid "double overtime" for my SIN of just trying to get an order out!

So believe me when I say UNIONS have been the cause of outsourcing!
UNIONS have been the cause of severe financial hardship for the ordinary worker!

And finally If these unions were so good, why do they HAVE to force people to join to have a job, TAKE THEIR DUES out of their paycheck bEFORE the worker is paid and
NOT allow worker a say in the FACT that 90% of UNION DONATIONS are paid to
Democrats! ALL FACTS!

OH by the way, the above company.. OUT of business 1,000s of jobs lost why..
UNION !

And if you cracked up a vehicle because you weren't qualified to drive it, that would have been okay, too.

I used to drive a forklift back in the 1990s. If I hoped on a forklift at my current job to get an order out, I'd be fired. It's be a violation of safety rules. I'm not an authorized operator.

And no union involved. That's just how things work.

Blaming unions for outsourcing is like blaming a revealing dress for a rape.

 

[healthmyths]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

I belonged to the Teamsters, UAW and AFL-CIO and I worked under a closed shop!
Have you?
In one instance I was told I couldn't add a piece of NEW lumber to skids I was repairing as a carpenter apprentice because I was an apprentice and ONLY carpenters were allowed to work on NEW lumber! Stupid!
After graduating from college I worked as management and one afternoon when tow motor drivers were gone I jumped on a towmotor moving an item onto a waiting truck so an order for a customer could be delivered.
I was reprimanded by my boss, a union tow motor driver was paid "double overtime" for my SIN of just trying to get an order out!

So believe me when I say UNIONS have been the cause of outsourcing!
UNIONS have been the cause of severe financial hardship for the ordinary worker!

And finally If these unions were so good, why do they HAVE to force people to join to have a job, TAKE THEIR DUES out of their paycheck bEFORE the worker is paid and
NOT allow worker a say in the FACT that 90% of UNION DONATIONS are paid to
Democrats! ALL FACTS!

OH by the way, the above company.. OUT of business 1,000s of jobs lost why..
UNION !

And if you cracked up a vehicle because you weren't qualified to drive it, that would have been okay, too.

I used to drive a forklift back in the 1990s. If I hoped on a forklift at my current job to get an order out, I'd be fired. It's be a violation of safety rules. I'm not an authorized operator.

And no union involved. That's just how things work.

Blaming unions for outsourcing is like blaming a revealing dress for a rape.

I don't disagree with you that today due to OSHA,company insurance, etc. that would NOT have been allowed.. and once again perfect example of how intrusive and WASTEFUL government i.e. UNION interference with productivity can be!

But you see WHEN I jumped on the fork lift I was a conscientious, not drug using, common sense person all characteristics that are NOW missing in most workers BECAUSE gross dependence on the nanny state!

AND am I glad you brought it up!
Because beyond the UNIONS nanny state mentality I would think YOU possibly would agree it would be better for EVERYONE if more people were conscientious, not drug users, and HAD common SENSE!
BUT THE vicious circle of idiocy increasing due to dependency on Govt./Union telling you what do is WHY we have to blame loss of JOBS on Unions/Govt rules ..OSHA/EPA/etc.. you name it!
I guess having NEVER created a business, or been responsible YOU don't see the constant nanny state mentality is reducing EVERYONE's quality of LiFE!

 

[JoeB131]

Yawn, the typical attitude of a plutocrat apologist, thinking the parasites are the vital organs.

Reality is- Consumer demand creates jobs. Nothing more, nothing less. When we had large union membership, we had prosperity. People had money, and they bought houses, they bought cars, they bought food and they bought consumer goods, and other people- not stockholders, not business people- made them.

Not sure what your issue is with "Drug users". Frankly, the only place where I had co-workers with substance abuse problems when was I was in the military. Most companies piss test you before they even give you the job.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why do people hate unions? Will corporations do right by the workers if not mandated to? I am still looking online and see no benefit to workers not being union.

Unions kill jobs for the real working people.

Again, it's like blaming the locksmith for your house getting robbed.

The employment rate has not gone up because private sector union membership has gone down. It just means that unlike my Grandfather who was able to retire on a pension from his good union job in the 1960's, I'll probably be working until they take me out feet first.

I've worked with union guys on non union jobs, they are worthless. They never did anything they felt was beneath them.

 

[JoeB131]

Unions kill jobs for the real working people.

Again, it's like blaming the locksmith for your house getting robbed.

The employment rate has not gone up because private sector union membership has gone down. It just means that unlike my Grandfather who was able to retire on a pension from his good union job in the 1960's, I'll probably be working until they take me out feet first.

I've worked with union guys on non union jobs, they are worthless. They never did anything they felt was beneath them.

Again, how is that different than anywhere else? I've seen people leave messes in place because it was the custodian's job to clean it up... in non-union shops.

And I'm not denying that union workers have been their own worst enemies in a lot of cases.

What I am saying is that left to their own devices without unions there, you'd have a lot worse abuses on the part of employers. Things that plain old shouldn't happen, because in an "at will" environment, you put up with any abuses.

First company I worked at when I got out of the service in 1992, they thought nothing at all of just working people for 16 hour shifts because they didn't want to put on more employees. Didn't want to buy proper equipment because it was expensive. Awful management, the company eventually went under. Nothing to do with unions, unions would have probably made things better.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Again, it's like blaming the locksmith for your house getting robbed.

The employment rate has not gone up because private sector union membership has gone down. It just means that unlike my Grandfather who was able to retire on a pension from his good union job in the 1960's, I'll probably be working until they take me out feet first.

I've worked with union guys on non union jobs, they are worthless. They never did anything they felt was beneath them.

Again, how is that different than anywhere else? I've seen people leave messes in place because it was the custodian's job to clean it up... in non-union shops.

And I'm not denying that union workers have been their own worst enemies in a lot of cases.

What I am saying is that left to their own devices without unions there, you'd have a lot worse abuses on the part of employers. Things that plain old shouldn't happen, because in an "at will" environment, you put up with any abuses.

First company I worked at when I got out of the service in 1992, they thought nothing at all of just working people for 16 hour shifts because they didn't want to put on more employees. Didn't want to buy proper equipment because it was expensive. Awful management, the company eventually went under. Nothing to do with unions, unions would have probably made things better.

Again, how is that different than anywhere else?

Being fired vs. not being fired with unions.

 

[JoeB131]

Again, how is that different than anywhere else?

Being fired vs. not being fired with unions.

And that's good, why?

Frankly, I think not cleaning up a mess is rude, but not worth firing someone over.

And I've seen people be fired for such petty bullshit, like the gal who got fired because she brought her girlfriend to the company party, and the boss was a homophobic Christian type.

I've seen women get fired because they were pregnant.

I was fired from my last job, despite glowing performance reviews over six years, because I had run up too many medical bills the previous year.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Again, how is that different than anywhere else?

Being fired vs. not being fired with unions.

And that's good, why?

Frankly, I think not cleaning up a mess is rude, but not worth firing someone over.

And I've seen people be fired for such petty bullshit, like the gal who got fired because she brought her girlfriend to the company party, and the boss was a homophobic Christian type.

I've seen women get fired because they were pregnant.

I was fired from my last job, despite glowing performance reviews over six years, because I had run up too many medical bills the previous year.

You asked what the difference was, I told you. If someone does not do what I pay them to do I will fire their ass.

 

[JoeB131]

You asked what the difference was, I told you. If someone does do what I pay them to do I will fire their ass.

BUt that wasnt' the example you gave. YOu gave the example of a union guy refusing to something that wasn't in his job description, which a lot of people in the private sector would refuse to do as well.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You asked what the difference was, I told you. If someone does do what I pay them to do I will fire their ass.

BUt that wasnt' the example you gave. YOu gave the example of a union guy refusing to something that wasn't in his job description, which a lot of people in the private sector would refuse to do as well.

You see here's the difference there are no specific jobs for specific people in non union jobs. I've done every portion of a plumbing job to picking up a broom at the end of the work day to sitting in meetings with the general contractor. You don't do the task set before you, you are gone.