Why wouldn't Jesus...

[logical4u]

As you wish. I thought my questions rather self-explanatory and I had no ulterior motive, merely curious.

I can never get it straight in my head why on the one hand the United States, according to many Christians, should
...


peace...

If Jesus were alive today, do you believe that Jesus would support a health system where 47 million or 10 million or whatever million you want to use are at risk of financial ruin or are unable to get proper care because they are unable to afford proper health insurance, or rather would Jesus be supportive of a system where the poor are offered high quality health care whereby they would not have to choose between medicine and eating?

As I've read the New Testament, it would be the latter.

Jesus lived 2000 years ago. Concepts of universal healthcare and a universal welfare system as we know it today were unknown, just as concepts of social organization 2000 years from now are unknown today.

Somewhere I had read that Jesus made 2700 references in the bible to helping the poor, and one reference against homosexuality (though I have no idea if this is true or not). Helping the poor was a central message of Christ. Christ says nowhere that taxing others to help the poor is sinful, at least what I know of. If he does, I'd be interested in knowing the chapter and verse.

Do you think Yeshua would support the elimination of the most generous country the world has EVER known to give "free" healthcare to an entire country? Do you not know emergency care is available for every person in the US now? Why do "you" support a plan that WILL bankrupt this nation to the point it will cease to exist as we know it? Do you realize that there are programs for care now?
People do not want to "pay" the full amount for services available. Don't use them. Create more competition. Otherwise do not expect the taxpayers to be thrilled about having $3000+ added to their tax bill to cover "wants", not needs.

 

[logical4u]

Taxes are the price you pay to belong to a society. While it is true that you can be penalized for not paying your taxes, you are free to opt out by not making money or moving to another country. And only in very rare cases are people imprisoned for not paying taxes.

These statements you are all making are just deflections and don't answer the questions I posed.

This country was started to avoid paying unreasonable taxes. Read about it.
Please tell me what you think the gov should be able to collect in taxes?
10%?
20%?
30%?
40%?
50%?
60%?
70%?
80%?
90%?
100%?
There is a point where citizens will stop being productive. Then, they become "subjects" of the gov, and are forced to produce for the gov. This country "was" all about freedoms: freedom to succeed or fail on your own, freedom to speak as you want, freedom to defend yourself and what is yours, freedom not to convict yourself, etc.
At what point of tax collection do these freedoms evaporate (taken over by the gov) for the people that want to live slave-like, where their basic needs are met and they do not have responsibility for their own actions? Why do the rest of us have to be put into the same "chattel"? We want freedom. We understand we are working without a net. We understand the possible costs of failure and dream about the possible rewards of success. Why do you want to "ruin" our dreams?

 

[Fatality]

because he dosent want you to steal from one person to give it to another. if you want to bring up what jesus wants then you better get on your knees, he wants your worship. if you want to help the poor so much then i suggest you sell everything you have and give it to the poor and then go follow christ, otherwise youre just a flippin hypocrite.

Taxes aren't theft.

If they are, please rationalize why its okay to "steal" from citizens to give to the military.

taxes are theft unless voted on and agreed to by those who would have to pay the tax.

stop trying to force people to bow to your intrusive government, Jesus wants you to bow to him.

 

[Care4all]

Taxes are the price you pay to belong to a society. While it is true that you can be penalized for not paying your taxes, you are free to opt out by not making money or moving to another country. And only in very rare cases are people imprisoned for not paying taxes.

These statements you are all making are just deflections and don't answer the questions I posed.

This country was started to avoid paying unreasonable taxes. Read about it.
Please tell me what you think the gov should be able to collect in taxes?
10%?
20%?
30%?
40%?
50%?
60%?
70%?
80%?
90%?
100%?
There is a point where citizens will stop being productive. Then, they become "subjects" of the gov, and are forced to produce for the gov. This country "was" all about freedoms: freedom to succeed or fail on your own, freedom to speak as you want, freedom to defend yourself and what is yours, freedom not to convict yourself, etc.
At what point of tax collection do these freedoms evaporate (taken over by the gov) for the people that want to live slave-like, where their basic needs are met and they do not have responsibility for their own actions? Why do the rest of us have to be put into the same "chattel"? We want freedom. We understand we are working without a net. We understand the possible costs of failure and dream about the possible rewards of success. Why do you want to "ruin" our dreams?

The top 1% wealthiest in this country have an effective income tax rate of 19%, with an average earned income of $1,500,000 a year.

Is 19% in income taxes too much to you, for the very top of the top?

pretty please, answer directly, without any song and a dance or drama...

ty

care

 

[Newby]

Taxes are the price you pay to belong to a society. While it is true that you can be penalized for not paying your taxes, you are free to opt out by not making money or moving to another country. And only in very rare cases are people imprisoned for not paying taxes.

These statements you are all making are just deflections and don't answer the questions I posed.

The question you posed has been answered by many different people in many different ways, all basically saying the same thing. Just repeating something over and over again, doesn't make it true. Something that progressives thru their news programs have attempted to do, but have obviously failed. I've asked you direct questions, which you've refused to answer. You are a complete waste of time.

 

[Ravi]

Taxes are the price you pay to belong to a society. While it is true that you can be penalized for not paying your taxes, you are free to opt out by not making money or moving to another country. And only in very rare cases are people imprisoned for not paying taxes.

These statements you are all making are just deflections and don't answer the questions I posed.

The question you posed has been answered by many different people in many different ways, all basically saying the same thing. Just repeating something over and over again, doesn't make it true. Something that progressives thru their new programs have attempted to do, but have obviously failed. I've asked you direct questions, which you've refused to answer. You are a complete waste of time.

You already said that, why are you repeating yourself? Please, begone from the thread.

 

[Newby]

Taxes are the price you pay to belong to a society. While it is true that you can be penalized for not paying your taxes, you are free to opt out by not making money or moving to another country. And only in very rare cases are people imprisoned for not paying taxes.

These statements you are all making are just deflections and don't answer the questions I posed.

The question you posed has been answered by many different people in many different ways, all basically saying the same thing. Just repeating something over and over again, doesn't make it true. Something that progressives thru their new programs have attempted to do, but have obviously failed. I've asked you direct questions, which you've refused to answer. You are a complete waste of time.

You already said that, why are you repeating yourself? Please, begone from the thread.

Blah, blah, blah, blah..... the usual bullshit...

 

[Intense]

Anything that is structured is subject to abuse so I'm not buying your argument.

Can you imagine Jesus saying don't form a group to help the poor because someone might abuse the system?

That's exactly why it needs to be Voluntary, hands on Ravi. I've been there too. Individuals do it best. Churches and Charities second, then Government. Heavy handed Government squashes the rest.

 

[Ravi]

Anything that is structured is subject to abuse so I'm not buying your argument.

Can you imagine Jesus saying don't form a group to help the poor because someone might abuse the system?

That's exactly why it needs to be Voluntary, hands on Ravi. I've been there too. Individuals do it best. Churches and Charities second, then Government. Heavy handed Government squashes the rest.

That doesn't answer the questions I posed.

I disagree that churches and charities do it best. They are just as open to corruption as government run welfare. And the checks and balances from the viewpoint of the American people are less.

 

[Newby]

The question you posed has been answered.

 

[Intense]

Anything that is structured is subject to abuse so I'm not buying your argument.

Can you imagine Jesus saying don't form a group to help the poor because someone might abuse the system?

That's exactly why it needs to be Voluntary, hands on Ravi. I've been there too. Individuals do it best. Churches and Charities second, then Government. Heavy handed Government squashes the rest.

That doesn't answer the questions I posed.

I disagree that churches and charities do it best. They are just as open to corruption as government run welfare. And the checks and balances from the viewpoint of the American people are less.

When You give up Local Control, When You are not tuned in to the process, shit happens.

 

[logical4u]

Taxes are the price you pay to belong to a society. While it is true that you can be penalized for not paying your taxes, you are free to opt out by not making money or moving to another country. And only in very rare cases are people imprisoned for not paying taxes.

These statements you are all making are just deflections and don't answer the questions I posed.

This country was started to avoid paying unreasonable taxes. Read about it.
Please tell me what you think the gov should be able to collect in taxes?
10%?
20%?
30%?
40%?
50%?
60%?
70%?
80%?
90%?
100%?
There is a point where citizens will stop being productive. Then, they become "subjects" of the gov, and are forced to produce for the gov. This country "was" all about freedoms: freedom to succeed or fail on your own, freedom to speak as you want, freedom to defend yourself and what is yours, freedom not to convict yourself, etc.
At what point of tax collection do these freedoms evaporate (taken over by the gov) for the people that want to live slave-like, where their basic needs are met and they do not have responsibility for their own actions? Why do the rest of us have to be put into the same "chattel"? We want freedom. We understand we are working without a net. We understand the possible costs of failure and dream about the possible rewards of success. Why do you want to "ruin" our dreams?

The top 1% wealthiest in this country have an effective income tax rate of 19%, with an average earned income of $1,500,000 a year.

Is 19% in income taxes too much to you, for the very top of the top?

pretty please, answer directly, without any song and a dance or drama...

ty

care

In the IRS tax booklet, the taxes are higher than that. Last year, I had over $20,000 taken out of my pay by the feds. I don't make close to $100,000 a year. I also had several thousand in state taxes taken out of my pay. I also had to pay local taxes.
So don't give one portion of the taxes and pretend that is all that has to be paid.
Answer the question: where is the line for taxes?

 

[Intense]

This country was started to avoid paying unreasonable taxes. Read about it.
Please tell me what you think the gov should be able to collect in taxes?
10%?
20%?
30%?
40%?
50%?
60%?
70%?
80%?
90%?
100%?
There is a point where citizens will stop being productive. Then, they become "subjects" of the gov, and are forced to produce for the gov. This country "was" all about freedoms: freedom to succeed or fail on your own, freedom to speak as you want, freedom to defend yourself and what is yours, freedom not to convict yourself, etc.
At what point of tax collection do these freedoms evaporate (taken over by the gov) for the people that want to live slave-like, where their basic needs are met and they do not have responsibility for their own actions? Why do the rest of us have to be put into the same "chattel"? We want freedom. We understand we are working without a net. We understand the possible costs of failure and dream about the possible rewards of success. Why do you want to "ruin" our dreams?

The top 1% wealthiest in this country have an effective income tax rate of 19%, with an average earned income of $1,500,000 a year.

Is 19% in income taxes too much to you, for the very top of the top?

pretty please, answer directly, without any song and a dance or drama...

ty

care

In the IRS tax booklet, the taxes are higher than that. Last year, I had over $20,000 taken out of my pay by the feds. I don't make close to $100,000 a year. I also had several thousand in state taxes taken out of my pay. I also had to pay local taxes.
So don't give one portion of the taxes and pretend that is all that has to be paid.
Answer the question: where is the line for taxes?

We clearly need Tax Reform. We need the bottom line for All Taxation, and Fee's. Transparency First. Let's debate the Total Number. No More Hidden Taxes and Fee's.

 

[Douger]

You want help from Jesus ?
Carry 15% of your welfatre check down to the child molester with the beanie every week.
A little water here, a little, smoke there, repent in the porta jon while he choketh the chickeneth and everything will be good, very soon. "See you next week my son"

 

[Intense]

You want help from Jesus ?
Carry 15% of your welfatre check down to the child molester with the beanie every week.
A little water here, a little, smoke there, repent in the porta jon while he choketh the chickeneth and everything will be good, very soon. "See you next week my son"

How about taking 10% to combined Charities, and Individuals in need. Even Talking to someone in need makes a difference.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

want us to structure our society to help the poor?

Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.

I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.

This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.

Any thoughts?

Jesus is a false idol, there is only one god .

DUCK AND COVER

 

[Barb]

This country was started to avoid paying unreasonable taxes. Read about it.
Please tell me what you think the gov should be able to collect in taxes?
10%?
20%?
30%?
40%?
50%?
60%?
70%?
80%?
90%?
100%?
There is a point where citizens will stop being productive. Then, they become "subjects" of the gov, and are forced to produce for the gov. This country "was" all about freedoms: freedom to succeed or fail on your own, freedom to speak as you want, freedom to defend yourself and what is yours, freedom not to convict yourself, etc.
At what point of tax collection do these freedoms evaporate (taken over by the gov) for the people that want to live slave-like, where their basic needs are met and they do not have responsibility for their own actions? Why do the rest of us have to be put into the same "chattel"? We want freedom. We understand we are working without a net. We understand the possible costs of failure and dream about the possible rewards of success. Why do you want to "ruin" our dreams?

The top 1% wealthiest in this country have an effective income tax rate of 19%, with an average earned income of $1,500,000 a year.

Is 19% in income taxes too much to you, for the very top of the top?

pretty please, answer directly, without any song and a dance or drama...

ty

care

In the IRS tax booklet, the taxes are higher than that. Last year, I had over $20,000 taken out of my pay by the feds. I don't make close to $100,000 a year. I also had several thousand in state taxes taken out of my pay. I also had to pay local taxes.
So don't give one portion of the taxes and pretend that is all that has to be paid.
Answer the question: where is the line for taxes?

Where is the line for priority? Instead of welfare for corporations (they are NOT people too), why not spend our existing taxes on a proven winner, the people? You do know that, where govt. largess is concerned, the amount of your taxes that go to business interests (the bigger the biz, the thicker the slice!) is much greater than the tiny percent sent back and spent on the public good, don't you?

"The $150 billion for corporate subsidies and tax benefits eclipses the annual budget deficit of $130 billion. It's more than the $145 billion paid out annually for the core programs of the social welfare state: Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), student aid, housing, food and nutrition, and all direct public assistance (excluding Social Security and medical care)." "After World War II, the nation's tax bill was roughly split between corporations and individuals. But after years of changes in the federal tax code and international economy, the corporate share of taxes has declined to a fourth the amount individuals pay, according to the US Office of Management and Budget." --Boston Globe series on Corporate Welfare"

Corporate Welfare Information Center

 

[logical4u]

The top 1% wealthiest in this country have an effective income tax rate of 19%, with an average earned income of $1,500,000 a year.

Is 19% in income taxes too much to you, for the very top of the top?

pretty please, answer directly, without any song and a dance or drama...

ty

care

In the IRS tax booklet, the taxes are higher than that. Last year, I had over $20,000 taken out of my pay by the feds. I don't make close to $100,000 a year. I also had several thousand in state taxes taken out of my pay. I also had to pay local taxes.
So don't give one portion of the taxes and pretend that is all that has to be paid.
Answer the question: where is the line for taxes?

Where is the line for priority? Instead of welfare for corporations (they are NOT people too), why not spend our existing taxes on a proven winner, the people? You do know that, where govt. largess is concerned, the amount of your taxes that go to business interests (the bigger the biz, the thicker the slice!) is much greater than the tiny percent sent back and spent on the public good, don't you?

"The $150 billion for corporate subsidies and tax benefits eclipses the annual budget deficit of $130 billion. It's more than the $145 billion paid out annually for the core programs of the social welfare state: Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), student aid, housing, food and nutrition, and all direct public assistance (excluding Social Security and medical care)." "After World War II, the nation's tax bill was roughly split between corporations and individuals. But after years of changes in the federal tax code and international economy, the corporate share of taxes has declined to a fourth the amount individuals pay, according to the US Office of Management and Budget." --Boston Globe series on Corporate Welfare"

Corporate Welfare Information Center

I will agree with you on the corporate welfare. I am all for a smaller gov.
My point was: where is the limit for taxes (collectively: fed, state, county, city, etc)? It is one of those things no politician wants to answer because when they come up with a new plan, they want to raise taxes, not exchange plans.

 

[RodISHI]

In the IRS tax booklet, the taxes are higher than that. Last year, I had over $20,000 taken out of my pay by the feds. I don't make close to $100,000 a year. I also had several thousand in state taxes taken out of my pay. I also had to pay local taxes.
So don't give one portion of the taxes and pretend that is all that has to be paid.
Answer the question: where is the line for taxes?

Where is the line for priority? Instead of welfare for corporations (they are NOT people too), why not spend our existing taxes on a proven winner, the people? You do know that, where govt. largess is concerned, the amount of your taxes that go to business interests (the bigger the biz, the thicker the slice!) is much greater than the tiny percent sent back and spent on the public good, don't you?

"The $150 billion for corporate subsidies and tax benefits eclipses the annual budget deficit of $130 billion. It's more than the $145 billion paid out annually for the core programs of the social welfare state: Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), student aid, housing, food and nutrition, and all direct public assistance (excluding Social Security and medical care)." "After World War II, the nation's tax bill was roughly split between corporations and individuals. But after years of changes in the federal tax code and international economy, the corporate share of taxes has declined to a fourth the amount individuals pay, according to the US Office of Management and Budget." --Boston Globe series on Corporate Welfare"

Corporate Welfare Information Center

I will agree with you on the corporate welfare. I am all for a smaller gov.
My point was: where is the limit for taxes (collectively: fed, state, county, city, etc)? It is one of those things no politician wants to answer because when they come up with a new plan, they want to raise taxes, not exchange plans.

The "exchange" goes between agencies on how to increase and justify spending rather than how to actually help the poor or disadvantaged.

 

[Care4all]

This country was started to avoid paying unreasonable taxes. Read about it.
Please tell me what you think the gov should be able to collect in taxes?
10%?
20%?
30%?
40%?
50%?
60%?
70%?
80%?
90%?
100%?
There is a point where citizens will stop being productive. Then, they become "subjects" of the gov, and are forced to produce for the gov. This country "was" all about freedoms: freedom to succeed or fail on your own, freedom to speak as you want, freedom to defend yourself and what is yours, freedom not to convict yourself, etc.
At what point of tax collection do these freedoms evaporate (taken over by the gov) for the people that want to live slave-like, where their basic needs are met and they do not have responsibility for their own actions? Why do the rest of us have to be put into the same "chattel"? We want freedom. We understand we are working without a net. We understand the possible costs of failure and dream about the possible rewards of success. Why do you want to "ruin" our dreams?

The top 1% wealthiest in this country have an effective income tax rate of 19%, with an average earned income of $1,500,000 a year.

Is 19% in income taxes too much to you, for the very top of the top?

pretty please, answer directly, without any song and a dance or drama...

ty

care

In the IRS tax booklet, the taxes are higher than that. Last year, I had over $20,000 taken out of my pay by the feds. I don't make close to $100,000 a year. I also had several thousand in state taxes taken out of my pay. I also had to pay local taxes.
So don't give one portion of the taxes and pretend that is all that has to be paid.
Answer the question: where is the line for taxes?

The Irs booklet tells you what the tax rate is for money earned for each tax bracket that your earnings fall in to, minus all deductions you take...so your EFFECTIVE TAX RATE is what you ACTUALLY PAY in income taxes....and for those in the very top 1% pay 19% in income taxes on average....on the 1.5 million they make on average.

in 1979 their effective tax rate was 21% so they have had some considerable tax changes to bring them down 2% points, to the 2005 level, which is the last year on this chart.

And yes, i do realize that there are many other taxes and many other hidden taxes that we all pay to the fed and the State governments, and I agree all taxes should be added together to give us a TRUE apples to apples taxation on everyone.... for example, payroll taxes amount to 9% of those in the lowest 20%, while they are LESS THAN 1% for those in the top 1%...but NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE fron the conservative side of the aisle tends to mention such, nor do they mention the ACTUAL taxes the wealthiest pay, their effective tax rate, they only ACT AS THOUGH the wealthiest are getting taxed on income at 35% for their whole amount earned and that is simply not true...but OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, those on the right bring up that the lower 20% income workers pay no taxes, which again, is SIMPLY NOT TRUE.....they may pay no income taxes, but they DO PAY TAXES....but nooooooooooooo, those can't be included when compared to the wealthiest.

I agree with Intense, we need to have one tax for everything....so that we can see all that our gvt is taking from us and spending, in one spot....!!!

care