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My question is simple. Why would Jesus be against a society deciding to help the poor. I cannot think of one single reason and so far no one has come up with one.
Me neither.
My question is simple. Why would Jesus be against a society deciding to help the poor. I cannot think of one single reason and so far no one has come up with one.
Me neither.
No one has said that Jesus would be against a society that decided to help the poor in this thread. What has been stated is that Jesus wouldn't care if one did or one didn't help the poor in the sense of a collective or as a society. He would care on an individual basis. The United States cannot get into heaven as a collective, no matter how much, as a collective, they help their poor. I don't know why that is so difficult to understand.
Way to miss the point.
As you wish. I thought my questions rather self-explanatory and I had no ulterior motive, merely curious.You're an idiot, Ravi. You don't want an answer, you never wanted an answer. All you want to do is display your stupidity apparently by poorly attempting to bash those that have different beliefs than you do. I can understand how you would have difficulty in understanding what I said, however, so in the future I won't waste my time.
As you wish. I thought my questions rather self-explanatory and I had no ulterior motive, merely curious.You're an idiot, Ravi. You don't want an answer, you never wanted an answer. All you want to do is display your stupidity apparently by poorly attempting to bash those that have different beliefs than you do. I can understand how you would have difficulty in understanding what I said, however, so in the future I won't waste my time.
I can never get it straight in my head why on the one hand the United States, according to many Christians, should follow the teachings of Jesus and/or God regarding gays, abortion, etc., yet on the other hand they completely ignore the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor.
As regards to how the USA treats the poor. Are you really this stupid or do I need to draw a diagram for you?As you wish. I thought my questions rather self-explanatory and I had no ulterior motive, merely curious.You're an idiot, Ravi. You don't want an answer, you never wanted an answer. All you want to do is display your stupidity apparently by poorly attempting to bash those that have different beliefs than you do. I can understand how you would have difficulty in understanding what I said, however, so in the future I won't waste my time.
I can never get it straight in my head why on the one hand the United States, according to many Christians, should follow the teachings of Jesus and/or God regarding gays, abortion, etc., yet on the other hand they completely ignore the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor.
Where do you get that Christians completely ignore the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor? That statement in and of itself is false.
As regards to how the USA treats the poor. Are you really this stupid or do I need to draw a diagram for you?As you wish. I thought my questions rather self-explanatory and I had no ulterior motive, merely curious.
I can never get it straight in my head why on the one hand the United States, according to many Christians, should follow the teachings of Jesus and/or God regarding gays, abortion, etc., yet on the other hand they completely ignore the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor.
Where do you get that Christians completely ignore the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor? That statement in and of itself is false.
how can that really be your answer? when our taxes are taken from us and given to FAITH BASED initiatives, via president bush/congress legislative changes under the last administration? was that voluntary?
Yes, that is a form of violent coercion. Bush had a tendency towards violence. The charities I mentioned are not FAITH-BASED, as I am agnostic.
Does Bush's wrongdoing justify Obama's wrongdoing?
I don't see it that way....
and i see the misuse of the word coercion and a misuse of the word of violence, on your part, being sort of a drama queen....in order to try to make some point?
I don't have one itty bitty reservation about wanting to find a way where health care is easily accessible to EVERYONE...I am not certain or am pretty certain, this gift horse to the insurance companies is not the way to go, but no concerns on an overall program that makes health care costs more affordable for all of us...
it is what Christ asks of all of us...we do not live our lives as Christians only outside of government, we live our lives as Christ taught...EVERY MINUTE OF THE DAY, in ALL aspects of our lives....
for those that say that Christ would not support us supporting a social plan that covered all of our medical well being....they are talking foolishness.
Christ lived in a Theocracy...with a parent dictatorship over that, the Romans....
but all that giving that Christ spoke about was within the Theocracy form of government that they lived in...tithing was to their government...yes their synagogue, or to the religious or to what we call the Church, but the Church WAS THEIR RULING GVT....
Telling the Rich man to GIVE UP EVERYTHING he had, was giving it up to their church, and their church was a theocracy form of GOVERNMENT...so i do not think that he had anything against the gvt helping people....and it is a falsity to say otherwise, imho.
care
want us to structure our society to help the poor?
Jesus preached that we should help the poor...that is indisputable.
I often see self-described Christians arguing against social welfare, claiming that Jesus meant that we should help the poor individually.
This makes no sense to me. If we have the power, as individuals, to collectively help the poor then IMO this is what Jesus would want us to do.
Any thoughts?
As you wish. I thought my questions rather self-explanatory and I had no ulterior motive, merely curious.You're an idiot, Ravi. You don't want an answer, you never wanted an answer. All you want to do is display your stupidity apparently by poorly attempting to bash those that have different beliefs than you do. I can understand how you would have difficulty in understanding what I said, however, so in the future I won't waste my time.
I can never get it straight in my head why on the one hand the United States, according to many Christians, should follow the teachings of Jesus and/or God regarding gays, abortion, etc., yet on the other hand they completely ignore the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor.
Yes, that is a form of violent coercion. Bush had a tendency towards violence. The charities I mentioned are not FAITH-BASED, as I am agnostic.
Does Bush's wrongdoing justify Obama's wrongdoing?
I don't see it that way....
and i see the misuse of the word coercion and a misuse of the word of violence, on your part, being sort of a drama queen....in order to try to make some point?
What happens to someone who refuses to "donate" to the IRS?
Extreme violence, resulting in your imprisonment or worse. If this is not violence, I don't know what is.
Taxes are a form of extortion, "a deal you can't refuse." This is logically undeniable.
I don't have one itty bitty reservation about wanting to find a way where health care is easily accessible to EVERYONE...I am not certain or am pretty certain, this gift horse to the insurance companies is not the way to go, but no concerns on an overall program that makes health care costs more affordable for all of us...
it is what Christ asks of all of us...we do not live our lives as Christians only outside of government, we live our lives as Christ taught...EVERY MINUTE OF THE DAY, in ALL aspects of our lives....
for those that say that Christ would not support us supporting a social plan that covered all of our medical well being....they are talking foolishness.
Christ lived in a Theocracy...with a parent dictatorship over that, the Romans....
but all that giving that Christ spoke about was within the Theocracy form of government that they lived in...tithing was to their government...yes their synagogue, or to the religious or to what we call the Church, but the Church WAS THEIR RULING GVT....
Telling the Rich man to GIVE UP EVERYTHING he had, was giving it up to their church, and their church was a theocracy form of GOVERNMENT...so i do not think that he had anything against the gvt helping people....and it is a falsity to say otherwise, imho.
care
Christ asked us to mug the rich to pay the poor? I don't recall Jesus busting out a sword and shaking down the Pharisees???
Christ said to give to the poor, not to the Pharisees. As a result, the theocratic government crucified him.
You want a license to mug, because the ends justify the means for you.
....no one is mugging anyone....if they are then i have gotten mugged and raped and mugged again...
As you wish. I thought my questions rather self-explanatory and I had no ulterior motive, merely curious.You're an idiot, Ravi. You don't want an answer, you never wanted an answer. All you want to do is display your stupidity apparently by poorly attempting to bash those that have different beliefs than you do. I can understand how you would have difficulty in understanding what I said, however, so in the future I won't waste my time.
I can never get it straight in my head why on the one hand the United States, according to many Christians, should follow the teachings of Jesus and/or God regarding gays, abortion, etc., yet on the other hand they completely ignore the teachings of Jesus regarding the poor.
Because Christ's Message isn't one of Socialism or Collectivism...
It's about Individual Faith.
You are Ignorantly Trying to Tie Christ's Teachings to a Collective Policy for this Nation...
Only Force of Law could Create what you are Pondering, and Christ in NO WAY Shape or Form would have Supported that, and you are Incapable of Illustrating any such thing.
And because Christians don't Subscribe to your Brand of Socialism, doesn't mean that they are Ignoring Christ's Teachings...
As Ignorant of his Teachings as you Obviously are, you are one of the Last People who have ANY Standing to make such an Assertion.
peace...
because he dosent want you to steal from one person to give it to another. if you want to bring up what jesus wants then you better get on your knees, he wants your worship. if you want to help the poor so much then i suggest you sell everything you have and give it to the poor and then go follow christ, otherwise youre just a flippin hypocrite.
I don't understand, KK...it sounds like you are a success story.
But you are a little off topic...teaching "a man to fish" would fall under the umbrella of helping the poor so it doesn't change my question.
I think what Kitten was sayiong is that maybe the funding needs to be more for helping the poor get out of poverty than just helping them for one day at a time.
Helping the poor, as Jesus was talking, was about the church. Unfortunately to little is being done by the church in many cases. I don't think Jesus was talking to the government, and telling them they need to feed the poor. Of course, they can help by helping orgsanizations with funding to reach out to the poor community.
Helping them to improve their life status is the greater ministry. This is also something the government can help with, however, Jesus was addressing believers, and their calling to help the needy.
Helping the poor, as Jesus was talking, was about the church. Unfortunately to little is being done by the church in many cases. I don't think Jesus was talking to the government, and telling them they need to feed the poor. Of course, they can help by helping orgsanizations with funding to reach out to the poor community.
IMO, I would say the Jesus would want a structure to assist the poor.This is the question, no one has answered it.
Why wouldn't Jesus... want us to structure our society to help the poor?
"And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him." In modern words pay the taxes that are due.
Equality and justice is written throughout the Bible. The entire Bible is the Word that is written concerning Jesus. Not all teach from the entire Bible.
Portion of Deuteronomy - Chapter 15
Save when there shall be no poor among you; for the LORD shall greatly bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance to possess it:
If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother:
But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, [in that] which he wanteth.
If you want to actually know what the Bible says about the poor you can read the rest for yourself if you like. The link shows everywhere "the poor" is mentioned. At the bottom of the page it continues onto the chapters of the Bible.
I don't see it that way....
...
Christ asked us to mug the rich to pay the poor? I don't recall Jesus busting out a sword and shaking down the Pharisees???
Christ said to give to the poor, not to the Pharisees. As a result, the theocratic government crucified him.
You want a license to mug, because the ends justify the means for you.
no....and stop with the drama queen act Fatality
.... Jesus certainly spoke against giving the rich favoritism and elevating them in stature above the poor, he also goes as far to say that many problems of society that they lived in were CAUSED by the wealthy....
care
"The wealthy" are individuals. If they accept Yeshua and give accordingly (and oppress the less fortunate less if that is how "THEY" gained their wealth). It will improve society. Only individual growth can improve society. If the politicians collecting for "the poor" are not spiritually mature (understand G*d's laws), then the people's intentions do not matter, the money (or as much) will not get to the poor. If the people distributing the wealth are not moral (individually) not as much will go to the poor.
There are many people that are wealthy because they serve the Lord and have been blessed, not only with wealth, but with happiness. These people are some of the most generous people you will ever meet (an yet they follow into that hated group: the wealthy). They have contributed vast amounts of resources to make their community, country and world a better place.
For people like "you", it is never enough. "You" are only concerned with what "should" be taken, not what "is" given. You could benefit with some spiritual growth yourself.
