Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[DiamondDave]

Yawn... and the response by whackos going back to the same tired bullshit "Bush = war criminal" nonsense

And here we go with the same tired bullshit of someone who calls themselves conservative going out of their way to defend a big spending big government liberal like Bush.

Funny... I don't defend Bush's economic policies, nor many other things he did... what I did defend against was this repeatedly tired bullshit by left wing nutjobs about Bush being a war criminal

But nice try

 

[rightwinger]

Lets see?

1. We diverted focus away from the war on terrorism
2. We invaded a country that was not involved in terrorism and was not a threat
3. We dedicated too few troops to control the country after the invasion
4. We engaged in torture
5. We ended up with 4000 American dead and close to 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Funny... I don't defend Bush's economic policies, nor many other things he did... what I did defend against was this repeatedly tired bullshit by left wing nutjobs about Bush being a war criminal

But nice try

Not just him, but his whole administration and all of his corporate buddies that colluded w/ this administration & profited handsomely from this debacle. Well... then again, that is THE ONLY REASON we invaded in the first place anyway, so I guess he can keep his "mi$$ion accomplished" banner after all.

 

[DiamondDave]

Funny... I don't defend Bush's economic policies, nor many other things he did... what I did defend against was this repeatedly tired bullshit by left wing nutjobs about Bush being a war criminal

But nice try

Not just him, but his whole administration and all of his corporate buddies that colluded w/ this administration & profited handsomely from this debacle. Well... then again, that is THE ONLY REASON we invaded in the first place anyway, so I guess he can keep his "mi$$ion accomplished" banner after all.

Please show collusion and proof positive evidence of this collusion and criminal activity

Otherwise... shut the fuck up

 

[Dr.Drock]

Yawn... and the response by whackos going back to the same tired bullshit "Bush = war criminal" nonsense

And here we go with the same tired bullshit of someone who calls themselves conservative going out of their way to defend a big spending big government liberal like Bush.

Funny... I don't defend Bush's economic policies, nor many other things he did... what I did defend against was this repeatedly tired bullshit by left wing nutjobs about Bush being a war criminal

But nice try

Bush's economic policies are what make him a "left wing nutjob"

Continue the desperate defense and then choking while you try to spit out that you're a conservative.

You're a bleeding heart liberal who thinks the Iraq War was a step towards world peace. Insanity.

 

[DiamondDave]

And here we go with the same tired bullshit of someone who calls themselves conservative going out of their way to defend a big spending big government liberal like Bush.

Funny... I don't defend Bush's economic policies, nor many other things he did... what I did defend against was this repeatedly tired bullshit by left wing nutjobs about Bush being a war criminal

But nice try

Bush's economic policies are what make him a "left wing nutjob"

Continue the desperate defense and then choking while you try to spit out that you're a conservative.

You're a bleeding heart liberal who thinks the Iraq War was a step towards world peace. Insanity.

Funny... never called Bush a "left wing nutjob"... but nice attempt to try and twist words around.. AGAIN

Fuck off.. you're feeble minded and inept wordplay tricks are not going to fly

 

[JRK]

1.) We couldn't afford it, it further bankrupted our nation.

2.) Was (another) unconstitutional war.

3.) Thousands of americans killed for something that had nothing to do with defense.

4.) Tens (maybe a hundred) thousand Iraqi's killed.

5.) Installed a government with a heavy islamic religious influence written into it. I can't believe republicans support this, my guess is they ignore this fact.

6.) Now americans will likely be taxed the rest of their lives to pay for the soldiers and bureacrats installed permanently in Iraq.

7.) Showed that we're willing to use our military to enforce UN sanctions having nothing to do with the US.

Those are just off the top of my head I'm sure I missed some obvious points. The only good thing is HOPEFULLY with the WMD lie americans have become less trustworthy of government and are less likely to cheer on another unprovoked war.

1) How much damage has terrorism done to our economy? And do not claim Saddam had nothing to do with nothing. we will never know how much, how longand whom profited from it
2) why would you say that?
3) Thats an opinion
4) Saddam killed those people
5) Thats the will of the Iraqi people
6) Iraqi war/Failed stimulus, same cost. That does not include many un-knowns that the Iraqi war may of off-set
7) The UN? do not insult my intelligence nor the seriousness of this thread with the UN

 

[Wry Catcher]

Principles of the Just War

A just war can only be waged as a last resort. All non-violent options must be exhausted before the use of force can be justified.

A war is just only if it is waged by a legitimate authority. Even just causes cannot be served by actions taken by individuals or groups who do not constitute an authority sanctioned by whatever the society and outsiders to the society deem legitimate.

A just war can only be fought to redress a wrong suffered. For example, self-defense against an armed attack is always considered to be a just cause (although the justice of the cause is not sufficient--see point #4). Further, a just war can only be fought with "right" intentions: the only permissible objective of a just war is to redress the injury.

A war can only be just if it is fought with a reasonable chance of success. Deaths and injury incurred in a hopeless cause are not morally justifiable.

The ultimate goal of a just war is to re-establish peace. More specifically, the peace established after the war must be preferable to the peace that would have prevailed if the war had not been fought.
The violence used in the war must be proportional to the injury suffered. States are prohibited from using force not necessary to attain the limited objective of addressing the injury suffered.

The weapons used in war must discriminate between combatants and non-combatants. Civilians are never permissible targets of war, and every effort must be taken to avoid killing civilians. The deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Funny... I don't defend Bush's economic policies, nor many other things he did... what I did defend against was this repeatedly tired bullshit by left wing nutjobs about Bush being a war criminal

But nice try

Bush's economic policies are what make him a "left wing nutjob"

Continue the desperate defense and then choking while you try to spit out that you're a conservative.

You're a bleeding heart liberal who thinks the Iraq War was a step towards world peace. Insanity.

Funny... never called Bush a "left wing nutjob"... but nice attempt to try and twist words around.. AGAIN

Fuck off.. you're feeble minded and inept wordplay tricks are not going to fly

I know, I'm the one who called him that, and you desperately run to his defense.

The reasoning I hear for the Iraq War in 2011 is that we did it to enforce UN sanctions and to save the Iraqi people from an evil dictator.

Every single aspect of that reasoning is liberal, every single one. If you can think of a different version of reasoning I'd love to hear and hear how you twist that into being conservative.

 

[rightwinger]

7) The UN? do not insult my intelligence nor the seriousness of this thread with the UN

Thats odd.....I thought we invaded because Saddam violated the UN resolution?

 

[JRK]

Lets see?

1. We diverted focus away from the war on terrorism
2. We invaded a country that was not involved in terrorism and was not a threat
3. We dedicated too few troops to control the country after the invasion
4. We engaged in torture
5. We ended up with 4000 American dead and close to 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead

1) Many of bin-ladens top chiefs where killed in Iraq
2) how does any-one know that? Saddam was told what to do after 1991 and he ignored it . how does anyone know what was shipped out of Iraq from 9-01-3-03? and to add there was numerous WMDs found (over 500) Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
3) I agree
4) No we did not, a handful of drunks did and they went to prison for it
5) No Saddam did, that violence had 18 months to be prevented

 

[Dr.Drock]

1.) We couldn't afford it, it further bankrupted our nation.

2.) Was (another) unconstitutional war.

3.) Thousands of americans killed for something that had nothing to do with defense.

4.) Tens (maybe a hundred) thousand Iraqi's killed.

5.) Installed a government with a heavy islamic religious influence written into it. I can't believe republicans support this, my guess is they ignore this fact.

6.) Now americans will likely be taxed the rest of their lives to pay for the soldiers and bureacrats installed permanently in Iraq.

7.) Showed that we're willing to use our military to enforce UN sanctions having nothing to do with the US.

Those are just off the top of my head I'm sure I missed some obvious points. The only good thing is HOPEFULLY with the WMD lie americans have become less trustworthy of government and are less likely to cheer on another unprovoked war.

1) How much damage has terrorism done to our economy? And do not claim Saddam had nothing to do with nothing. we will never know how much, how longand whom profited from it
2) why would you say that?
3) Thats an opinion
4) Saddam killed those people
5) Thats the will of the Iraqi people
6) Iraqi war/Failed stimulus, same cost. That does not include many un-knowns that the Iraqi war may of off-set
7) The UN? do not insult my intelligence nor the seriousness of this thread with the UN

1.) So your defense of the war is we don't know what Saddam had to do with terrorism, I would think we'd want to know that before going to war...........
2.) Congress has to give authorization to go to war, aka another unconstitutional war.
3.) What were we defending ourselves from? An Iraqi Army invasion? Lol
4.) He killed his people but ones killed by the Iraq War.
5.) The people didn't write up the Constitution, puppet bureacrats supported by the US did.
6.) I'd love to hear the costs the Iraq War offset, this should be fun.
7.) If it weren't for us being a part of the UN, we would've never enforced their sanctions. We went to war because they broke UN sanctions, not US sanctions.

 

[JRK]

Then who do you put in jail?

Who?

No US President has been jailed after leaving office (Although Conservatives tried to break that protocol with President Clinton over nonsense)..

Do I think that President Bush and the Vice President Cheney should be put into jail for this? Sure..but it would not be practical and would violate a great many unwritten rules.

So what should happen? An honest investigation as to what exactly happened..and why..then legislation that explicitly limits the use of force. Personally, I don't want to see the President's power to use force diminished..but he or she should not be able to commit troops to a country and not have a rational reason to do so. And it should be a crime to lie to the people..followed by impeachment and removal from office.

I have no problem putting Bush and Cheney in jail over this, but we also need to throw all the Democrats in Congress at the time in jail as well.


Personally I think a better solution would be to take a large portion of the trust funds of the slimeballs who voted for it and have those given to the widows and kids of dead parents who died for a lie.

None of you can explain to me why any-one should go to jail for any of this
for what?
defending this country?
Saddam was told for 18 months to do or else
after 9-11 what was we suppose to do?

Saddam Hussein ignored us
August 2001. fine
September 2001, no more

 

[shintao]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

03/07/11 AP: PTSD death sends family on search for answers
Senior Airman Anthony "Tony" Mena managed to dodge bullets, rocket-propelled grenades and roadside bombs during two tours in Iraq.Five months after being medically discharged, the former member of Kirtland Air Force Base's 377th Security Forces Squadron died in his sleep — the result of a lethal mix of nine prescribed medications, including antidepressants, pain killers, tranquilizers and muscle relaxers.

 

[rightwinger]

Lets see?

1. We diverted focus away from the war on terrorism
2. We invaded a country that was not involved in terrorism and was not a threat
3. We dedicated too few troops to control the country after the invasion
4. We engaged in torture
5. We ended up with 4000 American dead and close to 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead

1) Many of bin-ladens top chiefs where killed in Iraq
2) how does any-one know that? Saddam was told what to do after 1991 and he ignored it . how does anyone know what was shipped out of Iraq from 9-01-3-03? and to add there was numerous WMDs found (over 500) Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
3) I agree
4) No we did not, a handful of drunks did and they went to prison for it
5) No Saddam did, that violence had 18 months to be prevented

Iraq was one of the largest strategic blunders in US History. Poor intelligence, poor execution, no valid rationale for invading. While we pulled needed forces out of Afghanistan, we needlessly killed 4000 Americans in an unnecessary conflict

 

[DiamondDave]

Lets see?

1. We diverted focus away from the war on terrorism
2. We invaded a country that was not involved in terrorism and was not a threat
3. We dedicated too few troops to control the country after the invasion
4. We engaged in torture
5. We ended up with 4000 American dead and close to 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead

1) Many of bin-ladens top chiefs where killed in Iraq
2) how does any-one know that? Saddam was told what to do after 1991 and he ignored it . how does anyone know what was shipped out of Iraq from 9-01-3-03? and to add there was numerous WMDs found (over 500) Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
3) I agree
4) No we did not, a handful of drunks did and they went to prison for it
5) No Saddam did, that violence had 18 months to be prevented

Iraq was one of the largest strategic blunders in US History. Poor intelligence, poor execution, no valid rationale for invading. While we pulled needed forces out of Afghanistan, we needlessly killed 4000 Americans in an unnecessary conflict

Unsubstantiated and subjective... typical for you and your ilk...

 

[rightwinger]

1) Many of bin-ladens top chiefs where killed in Iraq
2) how does any-one know that? Saddam was told what to do after 1991 and he ignored it . how does anyone know what was shipped out of Iraq from 9-01-3-03? and to add there was numerous WMDs found (over 500) Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
3) I agree
4) No we did not, a handful of drunks did and they went to prison for it
5) No Saddam did, that violence had 18 months to be prevented

Iraq was one of the largest strategic blunders in US History. Poor intelligence, poor execution, no valid rationale for invading. While we pulled needed forces out of Afghanistan, we needlessly killed 4000 Americans in an unnecessary conflict

Unsubstantiated and subjective... typical for you and your ilk...

History will pass its verdict on Mr Bush. Any way you spin it will not look too good

 

[DiamondDave]

Iraq was one of the largest strategic blunders in US History. Poor intelligence, poor execution, no valid rationale for invading. While we pulled needed forces out of Afghanistan, we needlessly killed 4000 Americans in an unnecessary conflict

Unsubstantiated and subjective... typical for you and your ilk...

History will pass its verdict on Mr Bush. Any way you spin it will not look to good

I am not the one spinning... Mr. "unnecessary", Mr. "poor", Mr. "blunder"....

Any way YOU spin it, it is inherently not good... but that is because of your severe hyper-partisanship and extremist stance, which you refuse to change

 

[Wry Catcher]

7) The UN? do not insult my intelligence nor the seriousness of this thread with the UN

Thats odd.....I thought we invaded because Saddam violated the UN resolution?

What's odd is that the reason for attacking and occupying Iraq continue to change.

 

[mnbasketball]

The first problem is Saddam did nothing that 25 other dictators don't do now. Since when are we allowed to determine who runs what country by force because it suits us. 4500 Americans dead doesn't mean anything to you, 50,000 injured, and 100,000 Iraqi's dead because of what WE WANTED.

Saddam did nothing more to start this war than N. Korea has done for 50 years.
And where do you think the results of a crime determines if your a good guy or not. The only right we had to invade Iraq was because we could.

You would think that A guy who rapes a woman is a hero because they find out that the woman was wanted for murder. The guy is still a Rapist.