Why white people need to admit that black people know more about pain

[MizMolly]

How is feeling oppressed because of your race different than being oppressed because of poverty, or because you are in a shitty relationship you cannot escape, or because of who your family might be? I mean there are lots of situations in which one might feel oppression independent of their race. What makes race so much more in your mind? I don't understand your logic. I'm not questioning the veracity of your belief, so much as I am not sure what the basis of it is.

No One Has Ever Explained To My Satisfaction
Why I Should Care At All

Let Alone Sit And Listen To A Lecture About YT

Talk About Real Problems Like
Mamas With Multiple Baby-Daddies
Daddies With Multiple Baby-Mamas
Violent Crime, Drug Dealers
Truancy, Won't Study In School
Etc....

Real problems are what whites don't deal with that happen in their own communities.

Divorced women with no man at home raising kids.
Deadbeats who don't pay alimony.
Crime bosses and organized crime that controls the acquisition, shipping and distribution of drugs
Truancy. won't study in school
higher rates of crime
Child molestation
Crimes against family
Vandalism, Theft
assault/battery
Larceny
White collar crime
identity theft
Wall street robbery
Etc., Etc...…..

The same happens in many communities, regardless of race. Why do you say whites aren't dealing with it?

Probably because whites seem to try and ignore the fact that they commit the vast majority of crime. They like to focus on Black people. They should prioritize themselves and deal with their issues first.

They don't focus on black people. The blacks on here say whites commit the majority of crime....not the violent crimes in this country. PER CAPITA, it is not whites. The whites don't focus on blacks, they just respond to misinformation the blacks post.

 

[MizMolly]

So I'm a white guy. Just going off recent experience, yesterday I watched Blackkklansman in a Portland theater and it was hard to watch, mainly because I noticed I had to stop myself from laughing or smiling at certain parts that were really f'ed up. My impression was that that was the question the movie was putting to white people: "So, did you think it was funny? Did you like it?" Nothing was funny about that movie and yet it was making me realize that whether I want it there or not, like most white people, I've got a little racist living inside me.

There were a few black people in the theater and there was one black guy in the back who was laughing throughout the movie, especially at the racist scenes. Eventually someone shushed him and he blew up, "Don't you f'ing tell me to shut up! They keep saying it over and over, "N****r this! N****r that! N*****r! N****r! N****r! F*** this movie! F*** all you white mother-*******!"

He kept shouting and hitting the wall until an usher made him leave the theater, and after the movie the usher started apologizing to people leaving for the interruption. I told him I don't think he should be apologizing, and that while I get what he's saying, there's a bigger issue going on than just "he interrupted the movie." I said I don't think that was a movie you're meant to enjoy and I was glad that guy had been there.

So the friends I was with said, "I don't get why he got so mad." and in truth, I don't think I get it either, but what I do think I get if nothing else is this: That guy might have seemed angry to some people, but all I heard was someone really, really hurt. Like, beyond hurt.

I know a bit about pain - I tried to kill myself when I was a teenager; like, seriously tried to kill myself, with a note and everything and wound up in the hospital. And I'm a pretty sensitive guy. And I'm saying, I'm not sure even in my worst moments I have ever been as upset as that guy sounded to me. He didn't seem crazy - up until the moment some one told him to be quiet he sounded like a normal guy, and a normal person doesn't get that upset, they just don't.

And I've heard that kind of hurt from a lot of black people I've known or met, something deep, something carnal, and it's not about them - it's about white people. Not just the out-in-the-open racists but white people everywhere, esp. in the U.S., who won't acknowledge that something really twisted and sick is going on in this world and black people have been taking the brunt of it for a long time.

White people like to talk about equivalence a lot: "Well, maybe this black person has endured racism but racism against whites is real too." or "Well, I'm sure black people are having a hard time but that's no excuse for interrupting a movie, that was really distressing to me."

Well, maybe it's about time white people started getting distressed. Because, this is just the sense I'm getting but I just don't think any pain white people endure in their lives is really comparable to what black people endure from living in a racist society. People like to say, "Well pain is pain, let's not dismiss what anyone's going through" but in truth I think white people who complain about racism against whites are wimps and are the very deepest level of pathetic. If you're white like me, this is my message to you - we don't know what real racism feels like so let's keep our mouths shut about what we don't know and listen for a change.

well lets see, when one of my cousins in Reno NV was a teenager he got jumped by three black kids who beat him with a combination lock on a bike chain. he thought it was racist at the time, so does that make him really pathetic? people arnt allowed to comment on life as we experience it?

Me thinkest thou thinkest too hard. Maybe everyone in the movie theatre didnt catch the nuances in the guys voice that you did. Thats a possibility. Maybe they didn't quite know if he was upset about the movie... or something else.

But in general, your correct, Black people have suffered much more racism in America. History proves that.

You guys always have that one example of blacks doing something to you. But I had to fight whites from k-12 who thought they had the right to jump me because I was black. Then you go to college and have to fight white boys from rural towns who think they get to jump on you because they are superior and I must know my place. And if you are defending yourself here comes the police to handcuff you even if you didn't start the fight. So why go through all that you said at the beginning and just say what you said at the end.

What I said at the end is true. By far blacks HAVE endured more racism in the US than anyone else. But the rest of my response to the OP ...(("Well pain is pain, let's not dismiss what anyone's going through" but in truth I think white people who complain about racism against whites are wimps and are the very deepest level of pathetic. If you're white like me, this is my message to you - we don't know what real racism feels like so let's keep our mouths shut about what we don't know and listen for a change.)))

Is that being a victim of Racism is subjective. Of course the racism someone experiences as a white, an asian or a latino is not going to be the same as someone who is black but it doesn't make someones experience any less real. We are all human beings and understanding the entire human experience is pretty helpful.

So in having a discussion on race, all white people are suposed to keep our mouth shut and have no back and forth discussion on experiences? Because it seems like every time a white person mentions something... its simply called deflecting or 'Trying to Impose their white privilage and wants everyone to listen to their white man opinion which is more important than anyone elses'.... I would never Equate an experience I had with that of an African American , because it would be quite different.
People can listen back and forth on both sides to understand each other a whole lot better.

I'm listening but what I hear is a bunch of white people trying to tell me what they have experienced is the same thing we have and that we need to shut up talking about it. Your experience hasn't continued for your entire life and whites are not here telling you to forget it. Your claim of racism will not be denied by whites here, nor will you have to hear about how you need to do something about the problems in your community instead of complaining about the racism you say you faced. You will not be told how you are jealous of whites or that you are blaming racism for all your failures. Then if you detail how you fought through racism to make it, you aren't told how you shouldn't be complaining because apparently there is no racism because you made it.

This is consistent racism you have never faced.

Most of what whites say here is them telling us what we see doesn't happen. That's why I'll tell any white person doing that to shut up because you are white and don't know.

Some of you whites here have a major problem. You guys think you get to dictate everything. There are things you as whites need to listen to instead of always offering your opinions. You talked about a family member getting beat up and how that was racism . What you don't seem to get is how white racism contributed to the anger that made those blacks do what they did. You guys don't seem to get how there are consequences to all behavior and whites are not immune to that. You guys lecture us us all about responsibility and consequences of choices, then refuse to see what the consequences of continuing white racism contains. Instead you want to talk about what happened to you or a relative when you were a kid, but many of you whites here don't want to admit how this system continually beats up people of color for life while you don't ever have to face that.

Pure bullshit. So now you say the whites who got beat up by blacks deserved it. You are so delusional it is quite pathetic.

 

[flacaltenn]

How is feeling oppressed because of your race different than being oppressed because of poverty, or because you are in a shitty relationship you cannot escape, or because of who your family might be? I mean there are lots of situations in which one might feel oppression independent of their race. What makes race so much more in your mind? I don't understand your logic. I'm not questioning the veracity of your belief, so much as I am not sure what the basis of it is.

No One Has Ever Explained To My Satisfaction
Why I Should Care At All

Let Alone Sit And Listen To A Lecture About YT

Talk About Real Problems Like
Mamas With Multiple Baby-Daddies
Daddies With Multiple Baby-Mamas
Violent Crime, Drug Dealers
Truancy, Won't Study In School
Etc....

Real problems are what whites don't deal with that happen in their own communities.

Divorced women with no man at home raising kids.
Deadbeats who don't pay alimony.
Crime bosses and organized crime that controls the acquisition, shipping and distribution of drugs
Truancy. won't study in school
higher rates of crime
Child molestation
Crimes against family
Vandalism, Theft
assault/battery
Larceny
White collar crime
identity theft
Wall street robbery
Etc., Etc...…..

Don't even understand what that line of badgering is gonna buy you. Makes no sense at all. And it's stereotyping. In my community which is MIXED -- we hardly have an issue with ANYTHING on the list. Not mowing your yard will get you shunned real quick like tho..

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm pretty sure these two knew a little bit about pain before they died.
Pretty sure their parents know a lot about the pain of a racist society.

Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom - Wikipedia

Its good they found out about pain but it would be more beneficial if they could have experienced this on a multi-generational level.

It was good they found out about pain? serious?

Yes it was good. However it could have been better. Their entire race could have experienced the same thing for generations so they would know how it feels.

Bull shit, your step daughter is white. You wouldnt wish that on her. or would you? ... but lets see, some other peoples kids, yeah its ok for them. Either your BS'ing or you are a really fucked excuse for a human being. Which one is it?

My god daughter is 11% Black. I'm being serious. That event was used as some kind of idiotic equivalency so lets make it equivalent so whites can experience the generational pain.

So does the 11% exempt her from you badgering her about race? Or not? Pretty certain you'll be remembered as the grandpa that made her know that white guilt can't be absolved without pain.

 

[john54]

So I'm a white guy. Just going off recent experience, yesterday I watched Blackkklansman in a Portland theater and it was hard to watch, mainly because I noticed I had to stop myself from laughing or smiling at certain parts that were really f'ed up. My impression was that that was the question the movie was putting to white people: "So, did you think it was funny? Did you like it?" Nothing was funny about that movie and yet it was making me realize that whether I want it there or not, like most white people, I've got a little racist living inside me.

There were a few black people in the theater and there was one black guy in the back who was laughing throughout the movie, especially at the racist scenes. Eventually someone shushed him and he blew up, "Don't you f'ing tell me to shut up! They keep saying it over and over, "N****r this! N****r that! N*****r! N****r! N****r! F*** this movie! F*** all you white mother-*******!"

He kept shouting and hitting the wall until an usher made him leave the theater, and after the movie the usher started apologizing to people leaving for the interruption. I told him I don't think he should be apologizing, and that while I get what he's saying, there's a bigger issue going on than just "he interrupted the movie." I said I don't think that was a movie you're meant to enjoy and I was glad that guy had been there.

So the friends I was with said, "I don't get why he got so mad." and in truth, I don't think I get it either, but what I do think I get if nothing else is this: That guy might have seemed angry to some people, but all I heard was someone really, really hurt. Like, beyond hurt.

I know a bit about pain - I tried to kill myself when I was a teenager; like, seriously tried to kill myself, with a note and everything and wound up in the hospital. And I'm a pretty sensitive guy. And I'm saying, I'm not sure even in my worst moments I have ever been as upset as that guy sounded to me. He didn't seem crazy - up until the moment some one told him to be quiet he sounded like a normal guy, and a normal person doesn't get that upset, they just don't.

And I've heard that kind of hurt from a lot of black people I've known or met, something deep, something carnal, and it's not about them - it's about white people. Not just the out-in-the-open racists but white people everywhere, esp. in the U.S., who won't acknowledge that something really twisted and sick is going on in this world and black people have been taking the brunt of it for a long time.

White people like to talk about equivalence a lot: "Well, maybe this black person has endured racism but racism against whites is real too." or "Well, I'm sure black people are having a hard time but that's no excuse for interrupting a movie, that was really distressing to me."

Well, maybe it's about time white people started getting distressed. Because, this is just the sense I'm getting but I just don't think any pain white people endure in their lives is really comparable to what black people endure from living in a racist society. People like to say, "Well pain is pain, let's not dismiss what anyone's going through" but in truth I think white people who complain about racism against whites are wimps and are the very deepest level of pathetic. If you're white like me, this is my message to you - we don't know what real racism feels like so let's keep our mouths shut about what we don't know and listen for a change.

In reading this otherwise well written piece I cannot help but gritting my teeth at the part where you fall on the sword of your since time immemorial ancestral cultural sword. Ouch. Well, that part and the one before and after it where you use a crowbar to pry your own foot out of your mouth. Leaves a bad taste, eh?

It was all well and good until that last line.

If you're white like me, this is my message to you - we don't know what real racism feels like so let's keep our mouths shut about what we don't know and listen for a change

Racism doesn't get fixed by MUZZLING the source of the racism. Goes for both sides of the racism. It's dialogue and engagement that fixes racism...

If anyone was muzzled, I don't think it was tied on very well as people seem to be speaking their minds pretty adequately. I have a question for you heartlanders: You guys don't shy away from masculinity. Gun shows, trucking, fighting matches, getting a good day's hard work without bitching about it. Yet on this one issue of reverse racism, I've heard more whining then from the 2 year old who plays outside next door. Say it's true that there is this reverse racism - why whine about it and then tell black people they're the ones whining. It doesn't seem to synch with you heavy drinking, elbow grease, outdoorsy types.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

So I'm a white guy. Just going off recent experience, yesterday I watched Blackkklansman in a Portland theater and it was hard to watch, mainly because I noticed I had to stop myself from laughing or smiling at certain parts that were really f'ed up. My impression was that that was the question the movie was putting to white people: "So, did you think it was funny? Did you like it?" Nothing was funny about that movie and yet it was making me realize that whether I want it there or not, like most white people, I've got a little racist living inside me.

There were a few black people in the theater and there was one black guy in the back who was laughing throughout the movie, especially at the racist scenes. Eventually someone shushed him and he blew up, "Don't you f'ing tell me to shut up! They keep saying it over and over, "N****r this! N****r that! N*****r! N****r! N****r! F*** this movie! F*** all you white mother-*******!"

He kept shouting and hitting the wall until an usher made him leave the theater, and after the movie the usher started apologizing to people leaving for the interruption. I told him I don't think he should be apologizing, and that while I get what he's saying, there's a bigger issue going on than just "he interrupted the movie." I said I don't think that was a movie you're meant to enjoy and I was glad that guy had been there.

So the friends I was with said, "I don't get why he got so mad." and in truth, I don't think I get it either, but what I do think I get if nothing else is this: That guy might have seemed angry to some people, but all I heard was someone really, really hurt. Like, beyond hurt.

I know a bit about pain - I tried to kill myself when I was a teenager; like, seriously tried to kill myself, with a note and everything and wound up in the hospital. And I'm a pretty sensitive guy. And I'm saying, I'm not sure even in my worst moments I have ever been as upset as that guy sounded to me. He didn't seem crazy - up until the moment some one told him to be quiet he sounded like a normal guy, and a normal person doesn't get that upset, they just don't.

And I've heard that kind of hurt from a lot of black people I've known or met, something deep, something carnal, and it's not about them - it's about white people. Not just the out-in-the-open racists but white people everywhere, esp. in the U.S., who won't acknowledge that something really twisted and sick is going on in this world and black people have been taking the brunt of it for a long time.

White people like to talk about equivalence a lot: "Well, maybe this black person has endured racism but racism against whites is real too." or "Well, I'm sure black people are having a hard time but that's no excuse for interrupting a movie, that was really distressing to me."

Well, maybe it's about time white people started getting distressed. Because, this is just the sense I'm getting but I just don't think any pain white people endure in their lives is really comparable to what black people endure from living in a racist society. People like to say, "Well pain is pain, let's not dismiss what anyone's going through" but in truth I think white people who complain about racism against whites are wimps and are the very deepest level of pathetic. If you're white like me, this is my message to you - we don't know what real racism feels like so let's keep our mouths shut about what we don't know and listen for a change.

I read the thread topic, but didn’t read the OP, ITS WAAAAAAAY to long. Anyway, I didn’t realize that black people and white people were trying to decide who knows more about pain. You’re one of those poster who has nothing meaningful to say so you make up a fake topic. Third grade!

 

[flacaltenn]

If anyone was muzzled, I don't think it was tied on very well as people seem to be speaking their minds pretty adequately. I have a question for you heartlanders: You guys don't shy away from masculinity. Gun shows, trucking, fighting matches, getting a good day's hard work without bitching about it. Yet on this one issue of reverse racism, I've heard more whining then from the 2 year old who plays outside next door. Say it's true that there is this reverse racism - why whine about it and then tell black people they're the ones whining. It doesn't seem to synch with you heavy drinking, elbow grease, outdoorsy types.

You got me mixed up with your gawd awful southern stereotyping. Seems you got more " isms" than you know.

There is no whining on my part about Black racism. Other than the approach those low effort racist use to exercise is COMPLETELY STOLEN from the white racists that they detest. Pushing superiority in other ways for example. If you read some the older threads in this forum about the advanced civilizations of Blacks in history, you'd understand they invented EVERYTHING --- including Silly Putty and SPAM while white cave chimps were still drawing hieroglyths on the walls.

It's a total rip-off of the White racists that are a cinch to identify. Us white people know EXACTLY who the racists are by their calling cards of mangling history, abusing science, stereotyping without a net, and snotty sniping...

But their clan don't call them out. Because there's a feeling they earned the right to BE racists thru their history.

I engage with racists. On both sides. And anti-semites and geocentric nutbags that don't know shit about well mannered Southern living. Welcome to the forum.

 

[flacaltenn]

I'm listening but what I hear is a bunch of white people trying to tell me what they have experienced is the same thing we have and that we need to shut up talking about it.

Just told you MUZZLING either side fixes nothing. Listening and DIALOGUE is the way to change perceptions.

You assume I'm ignorant about Civil rights struggles and racism. I'm not. I've told you I almost ruined my life confronting a couple cops that almost shoved a Black teen girl through the front glass window of our Head Start school in Miami during a race riot. Never would have gotten the clearances and career I had with a record like that.

I'm well read and well lectured to. Doesn't mean I don't want to hear it again. I just don't want to hear it from folks who adopt the same damn offensive tactics as white racists. A racist is a racist. A person for whom there IS no reconciliation or racial progress unless it's on THEIR TERMS.

 

[john54]

If anyone was muzzled, I don't think it was tied on very well as people seem to be speaking their minds pretty adequately. I have a question for you heartlanders: You guys don't shy away from masculinity. Gun shows, trucking, fighting matches, getting a good day's hard work without bitching about it. Yet on this one issue of reverse racism, I've heard more whining then from the 2 year old who plays outside next door. Say it's true that there is this reverse racism - why whine about it and then tell black people they're the ones whining. It doesn't seem to synch with you heavy drinking, elbow grease, outdoorsy types.

You got me mixed up with your gawd awful southern stereotyping. Seems you got more " isms" than you know.

There is no whining on my part about Black racism. Other than the approach those low effort racist use to exercise is COMPLETELY STOLEN from the white racists that they detest. Pushing superiority in other ways for example. If you read some the older threads in this forum about the advanced civilizations of Blacks in history, you'd understand they invented EVERYTHING --- including Silly Putty and SPAM while white cave chimps were still drawing hieroglyths on the walls.

It's a total rip-off of the White racists that are a cinch to identify. Us white people know EXACTLY who the racists are by their calling cards of mangling history, abusing science, stereotyping without a net, and snotty sniping...

But their clan don't call them out. Because there's a feeling they earned the right to BE racists thru their history.

I engage with racists. On both sides. And anti-semites and geocentric nutbags that don't know shit about well mannered Southern living. Welcome to the forum.

So I am to assume you don't own a truck?

I like well mannered southern living, but would like to see it find some way to exist alongside the rest of the world and the rest of the country. I think the South has a lot to offer culture-wise to those of us on the coasts, but the racism is there, and I think it's messing up what would otherwise be a very hospitable culture. You ever talk to a German about how they let go of their attachment to some of that ugly history? You don't see them waving Swastikas around there but in our South we've got the Confederate flag flying around for everyone to see. Again, tens of millions of slaves shackled and killed, your average slave children sold and worked to death over just ten years not living to see the age of 25, most evil act in history right there alongside the Holocaust and you guys just can't stop waving their emblem around.

I was speaking with a young German friend of mine today and asked if she'd have anything to say to people in the U.S. who are still hung-up on the Confederacy. I wonder if her message might hit home a bit:

"It is very important to learn our history and understand the wrongdoings. We must be honest about Germany’s history, understand it and move into a more positive future. Denial is never the way."

 

[night_son]

So I'm a white guy. Just going off recent experience, yesterday I watched Blackkklansman in a Portland theater and it was hard to watch, mainly because I noticed I had to stop myself from laughing or smiling at certain parts that were really f'ed up. My impression was that that was the question the movie was putting to white people: "So, did you think it was funny? Did you like it?" Nothing was funny about that movie and yet it was making me realize that whether I want it there or not, like most white people, I've got a little racist living inside me.

There were a few black people in the theater and there was one black guy in the back who was laughing throughout the movie, especially at the racist scenes. Eventually someone shushed him and he blew up, "Don't you f'ing tell me to shut up! They keep saying it over and over, "N****r this! N****r that! N*****r! N****r! N****r! F*** this movie! F*** all you white mother-*******!"

He kept shouting and hitting the wall until an usher made him leave the theater, and after the movie the usher started apologizing to people leaving for the interruption. I told him I don't think he should be apologizing, and that while I get what he's saying, there's a bigger issue going on than just "he interrupted the movie." I said I don't think that was a movie you're meant to enjoy and I was glad that guy had been there.

So the friends I was with said, "I don't get why he got so mad." and in truth, I don't think I get it either, but what I do think I get if nothing else is this: That guy might have seemed angry to some people, but all I heard was someone really, really hurt. Like, beyond hurt.

I know a bit about pain - I tried to kill myself when I was a teenager; like, seriously tried to kill myself, with a note and everything and wound up in the hospital. And I'm a pretty sensitive guy. And I'm saying, I'm not sure even in my worst moments I have ever been as upset as that guy sounded to me. He didn't seem crazy - up until the moment some one told him to be quiet he sounded like a normal guy, and a normal person doesn't get that upset, they just don't.

And I've heard that kind of hurt from a lot of black people I've known or met, something deep, something carnal, and it's not about them - it's about white people. Not just the out-in-the-open racists but white people everywhere, esp. in the U.S., who won't acknowledge that something really twisted and sick is going on in this world and black people have been taking the brunt of it for a long time.

White people like to talk about equivalence a lot: "Well, maybe this black person has endured racism but racism against whites is real too." or "Well, I'm sure black people are having a hard time but that's no excuse for interrupting a movie, that was really distressing to me."

Well, maybe it's about time white people started getting distressed. Because, this is just the sense I'm getting but I just don't think any pain white people endure in their lives is really comparable to what black people endure from living in a racist society. People like to say, "Well pain is pain, let's not dismiss what anyone's going through" but in truth I think white people who complain about racism against whites are wimps and are the very deepest level of pathetic. If you're white like me, this is my message to you - we don't know what real racism feels like so let's keep our mouths shut about what we don't know and listen for a change.

In reading this otherwise well written piece I cannot help but gritting my teeth at the part where you fall on the sword of your since time immemorial ancestral cultural sword. Ouch. Well, that part and the one before and after it where you use a crowbar to pry your own foot out of your mouth. Leaves a bad taste, eh?

It was all well and good until that last line.

If you're white like me, this is my message to you - we don't know what real racism feels like so let's keep our mouths shut about what we don't know and listen for a change

Racism doesn't get fixed by MUZZLING the source of the racism. Goes for both sides of the racism. It's dialogue and engagement that fixes racism...

If anyone was muzzled, I don't think it was tied on very well as people seem to be speaking their minds pretty adequately. I have a question for you heartlanders: You guys don't shy away from masculinity. Gun shows, trucking, fighting matches, getting a good day's hard work without bitching about it. Yet on this one issue of reverse racism, I've heard more whining then from the 2 year old who plays outside next door. Say it's true that there is this reverse racism - why whine about it and then tell black people they're the ones whining. It doesn't seem to synch with you heavy drinking, elbow grease, outdoorsy types.

The prevailing response-harmattan blowing frigidly against your initial post could result from its eidos of pro-racial division charged words, seemingly written as out to throw more kindling on the fires of the mainstreamed pop culture fed campaign now burning across our America. That and the racial self-hatred which is an ideological canard radicalized professors teach to extend the narrative of Identity Politics.

. . . and welcome aboard USMB

 

[flacaltenn]

I like well mannered southern living, but would like to see it find some way to exist alongside the rest of the world and the rest of the country. I think the South has a lot to offer culture-wise to those of us on the coasts, but the racism is there, and I think it's messing up what would otherwise be a very hospitable culture. You ever talk to a German about how they let go of their attachment to some of that ugly history. You don't see them waving Swastikas around there but in our South we've got the Confederate flag flying around for everyone to see.

It's a bit off topic --- but you're a hard case in terms of your ignorance of the South. The south confronted racism just as well or BETTER than many other places in the nation. Difference was -- we were all intertwined down here. Towns TOO small for separate schools after desegregation. Sports are the center of life here. And there's nothing better than sports to fix your racial twitchies. Except maybe music. And AGAIN -- music is BIG part of southern culture. From gospel to R&B and country. Charlie Pride did more for racial normalization than Al Sharpton ever did. Elvis for Gawd sake was RAISED and created by gospel music. BB King, Muddy Waters, all southerners.

Fact is outside of my Hillbilly Hollywood, in the rest of Tenn, whites/blacks have lived and worked together longer and better than in places where there is racial separation still by choice. Like baltimore or compton or little islands of self-segregating blacks. Aint towns big enough to have "the other side of the tracks" or separate economies or separate social services.

The confederate flag is no longer "racial identity" in the South. It's a regional identity. Because we ARE different from those tiny densely packed islands of Blue Socialist paradise you Southern hate-mongers live in.

 

[AveryJarhman]

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #Solutions

Unfortunately, in today's ever-evolving, imperfect American society MOST pain experienced by many black or Americans of African descent is directly related to America's *CHILD CARE* PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS, aka America's potentially life scarring SYSTEMIC & GENERATIONAL Culture of Black or African American Child Abuse, Emotional Neglect and Maltreatment that evolved from America's multi-generational, ignorant, once legal Culture of Racism!

I am referring to a Culture of Child Abuse, Emotional Neglect, Abandonment and Maltreatment responsible for popular American urban story-TRUTH-tellers and 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victims the late Tupac Shakur (born 1971) and Mr. Barack "My Brother's Keeper" Obama White House guest and friend Kendrick Lamar (born 1987) vividly describing in their American art and interviews the "T.H.U.G.L.I.F.E." and "Good Kid, m.A.A.d. City" Child Abuse Cultures prevalent in far too many American communities.

I am referring to a Culture of Systemic and Generational CHILD ABUSE that THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, deprived Tupac and Kendrick, their childhood friends, as well as many of their elementary and JHS classmates from experiencing a SAFE, fairly or wonderfully happy American kid childhood.

Sadly, the traumatic, potentially life-scarring Criminal Child Abuse and Emotional Abandonment each of these men speaks about experiencing during a critical period of human/childhood development, resulted with them maturing into emotionally ill adults revealing in public they’ve been experiencing acute depression as well as Suic*dal Thoughts for most of their lives.

The same Culture of African American Child Abuse, Neglect and Maltreatment that for near 40 years has been inspiring significant numbers of popular urban story-TRUTH-tellers to compose and promote American music art HATEFULLY informing our world that American girls, women and MOTHERS of African descent should be viewed as less than human *itches, *hores, 'hoes' or "THOTS" unworthy of being treated with basic human respect. (THOT = "That Hoe Over There")

Unfortunately, it's plainly evident Kendrick, Tupac as well as untold numbers of American children are being raised, nurtured and socialized by moms experiencing some type of illness preventing and impeding them from embracing and following their innate, natural maternal instinct to protect their child or children from harm.

Perhaps I'm wrong but *something* is preventing significant numbers of black or American moms of African descent from recognizing that placing ABOVE ALL ELSE the emotional well being of our Nation's most precious and cherished assets, will most likely result with a fairly or wonderfully happy child maturing into a reasonably responsible teen and adult citizen caring about their own well being (*May 18, 2015 - Rise in Suic!de by Black Children Surprises Researchers - The New York Times*), as well as embracing compassion, empathy and respect for their peaceful or less fortunate neighbors.
___
The late 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim Tupac Shakur's Child Abuse, Emotional Neglect, Abandonment & Maltreatment concept:

T.H.U.G.L.I.F.E. - "The Hate U Give Little Infants Fvvks *EVERYONE"* ~Tupac Shakur

“We need more people who care; you know what I’m saying? We need more women, mothers, fathers, we need more of that…” ~Tupac Shakur, American urban story-TRUTH-teller
___
Now that 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim-survivor Oprah Winfrey LOUDLY addressed our Nation's *CHILD CARE* PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS, will YOU, a responsible, caring American citizen join Oprah & Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, MD, pediatrician & CEO of 'The Center For Youth Wellness', in passionately calling for a National MOVEMENT educating American & foreign born primary child caregivers about a potentially life scarring medical disease/condition:

"Childhood Trauma" aka
"Adverse Childhood Experiences" (#ACEs)

___
During a March 11, 2018 '60 Minutes' segment titled, "Treating Trauma," Oprah Winfrey, a 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim-survivor shared knowledge regarding America's easily PREVENTABLE, though potentially life scarring *CHILD CARE* PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS.

Knowledge Oprah exuberantly declares is a "game changer."

Video search terms: "Oprah Winfrey Dancing On Table Tops, Fixing The 'Hole In Your Soul'"

Peace.
___
American *(Children)* Lives Matter; Take Pride In Parenting; *End Our National Epidemic of Child Abuse and Neglect*; End Community Violence, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations

 

[john54]

Why do you need that identity? I'm not saying liberal Blue Socialist paradises are inherently any better than Red Fascist oases. Racism is strong up here too. I said in my first paragraph it's in me too whether I want it there or not. But hell, why cling to your history so hard in the first place? No one I know around here gives a thought to their history and they're not any more or less happy on average than people who do. It's not like losing attachment to history is the same as dying, people can live without it. And if my history had something as horrible in it as enslaving people I don't see why I'd want anything to do with it.

I get that if it's what you grew up with and everyone around you is just as attached to it as you and it's a huge part of your life it's not going to be something you can just up and let go of, but damn, slavery? Really? That is some sick stuff. Why hold onto the emblem? Why not keep the values and lose the flag?

 

[Yarddog]

I'm pretty sure these two knew a little bit about pain before they died.
Pretty sure their parents know a lot about the pain of a racist society.

Murders of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom - Wikipedia

Its good they found out about pain but it would be more beneficial if they could have experienced this on a multi-generational level.

It was good they found out about pain? serious?

Yes it was good. However it could have been better. Their entire race could have experienced the same thing for generations so they would know how it feels.

Bull shit, your step daughter is white. You wouldnt wish that on her. or would you? ... but lets see, some other peoples kids, yeah its ok for them. Either your BS'ing or you are a really fucked excuse for a human being. Which one is it?

My god daughter is 11% Black. I'm being serious. That event was used as some kind of idiotic equivalency so lets make it equivalent so whites can experience the generational pain.

Well like I thought, your playing the part to make a point. But then 89% of your god daughter has experienced white privledge for over 400 years, maybe she hasnt experienced enough generational pain to make her legitimate.

 

[MizMolly]

If anyone was muzzled, I don't think it was tied on very well as people seem to be speaking their minds pretty adequately. I have a question for you heartlanders: You guys don't shy away from masculinity. Gun shows, trucking, fighting matches, getting a good day's hard work without bitching about it. Yet on this one issue of reverse racism, I've heard more whining then from the 2 year old who plays outside next door. Say it's true that there is this reverse racism - why whine about it and then tell black people they're the ones whining. It doesn't seem to synch with you heavy drinking, elbow grease, outdoorsy types.

You got me mixed up with your gawd awful southern stereotyping. Seems you got more " isms" than you know.

There is no whining on my part about Black racism. Other than the approach those low effort racist use to exercise is COMPLETELY STOLEN from the white racists that they detest. Pushing superiority in other ways for example. If you read some the older threads in this forum about the advanced civilizations of Blacks in history, you'd understand they invented EVERYTHING --- including Silly Putty and SPAM while white cave chimps were still drawing hieroglyths on the walls.

It's a total rip-off of the White racists that are a cinch to identify. Us white people know EXACTLY who the racists are by their calling cards of mangling history, abusing science, stereotyping without a net, and snotty sniping...

But their clan don't call them out. Because there's a feeling they earned the right to BE racists thru their history.

I engage with racists. On both sides. And anti-semites and geocentric nutbags that don't know shit about well mannered Southern living. Welcome to the forum.

So I am to assume you don't own a truck?

I like well mannered southern living, but would like to see it find some way to exist alongside the rest of the world and the rest of the country. I think the South has a lot to offer culture-wise to those of us on the coasts, but the racism is there, and I think it's messing up what would otherwise be a very hospitable culture. You ever talk to a German about how they let go of their attachment to some of that ugly history? You don't see them waving Swastikas around there but in our South we've got the Confederate flag flying around for everyone to see. Again, tens of millions of slaves shackled and killed, your average slave children sold and worked to death over just ten years not living to see the age of 25, most evil act in history right there alongside the Holocaust and you guys just can't stop waving their emblem around.

I was speaking with a young German friend of mine today and asked if she'd have anything to say to people in the U.S. who are still hung-up on the Confederacy. I wonder if her message might hit home a bit:

"It is very important to learn our history and understand the wrongdoings. We must be honest about Germany’s history, understand it and move into a more positive future. Denial is never the way."

Being proud of their Southern heritage doesnt make them racist. It is ironic how many black posters claim that the Civil War was not about slavery yet complain about the Confederate flag and statues.

 

[john54]

If anyone was muzzled, I don't think it was tied on very well as people seem to be speaking their minds pretty adequately. I have a question for you heartlanders: You guys don't shy away from masculinity. Gun shows, trucking, fighting matches, getting a good day's hard work without bitching about it. Yet on this one issue of reverse racism, I've heard more whining then from the 2 year old who plays outside next door. Say it's true that there is this reverse racism - why whine about it and then tell black people they're the ones whining. It doesn't seem to synch with you heavy drinking, elbow grease, outdoorsy types.

You got me mixed up with your gawd awful southern stereotyping. Seems you got more " isms" than you know.

There is no whining on my part about Black racism. Other than the approach those low effort racist use to exercise is COMPLETELY STOLEN from the white racists that they detest. Pushing superiority in other ways for example. If you read some the older threads in this forum about the advanced civilizations of Blacks in history, you'd understand they invented EVERYTHING --- including Silly Putty and SPAM while white cave chimps were still drawing hieroglyths on the walls.

It's a total rip-off of the White racists that are a cinch to identify. Us white people know EXACTLY who the racists are by their calling cards of mangling history, abusing science, stereotyping without a net, and snotty sniping...

But their clan don't call them out. Because there's a feeling they earned the right to BE racists thru their history.

I engage with racists. On both sides. And anti-semites and geocentric nutbags that don't know shit about well mannered Southern living. Welcome to the forum.

So I am to assume you don't own a truck?

I like well mannered southern living, but would like to see it find some way to exist alongside the rest of the world and the rest of the country. I think the South has a lot to offer culture-wise to those of us on the coasts, but the racism is there, and I think it's messing up what would otherwise be a very hospitable culture. You ever talk to a German about how they let go of their attachment to some of that ugly history? You don't see them waving Swastikas around there but in our South we've got the Confederate flag flying around for everyone to see. Again, tens of millions of slaves shackled and killed, your average slave children sold and worked to death over just ten years not living to see the age of 25, most evil act in history right there alongside the Holocaust and you guys just can't stop waving their emblem around.

I was speaking with a young German friend of mine today and asked if she'd have anything to say to people in the U.S. who are still hung-up on the Confederacy. I wonder if her message might hit home a bit:

"It is very important to learn our history and understand the wrongdoings. We must be honest about Germany’s history, understand it and move into a more positive future. Denial is never the way."

Being proud of their Southern heritage doesnt make them racist. It is ironic how many black posters claim that the Civil War was not about slavery yet complain about the Confederate flag and statues.

?

The civil war was not about slavery but the Confederacy was. It was founded on it.

 

[IM2]

How is feeling oppressed because of your race different than being oppressed because of poverty, or because you are in a shitty relationship you cannot escape, or because of who your family might be? I mean there are lots of situations in which one might feel oppression independent of their race. What makes race so much more in your mind? I don't understand your logic. I'm not questioning the veracity of your belief, so much as I am not sure what the basis of it is.

No One Has Ever Explained To My Satisfaction
Why I Should Care At All

Let Alone Sit And Listen To A Lecture About YT

Talk About Real Problems Like
Mamas With Multiple Baby-Daddies
Daddies With Multiple Baby-Mamas
Violent Crime, Drug Dealers
Truancy, Won't Study In School
Etc....

Real problems are what whites don't deal with that happen in their own communities.

Divorced women with no man at home raising kids.
Deadbeats who don't pay alimony.
Crime bosses and organized crime that controls the acquisition, shipping and distribution of drugs
Truancy. won't study in school
higher rates of crime
Child molestation
Crimes against family
Vandalism, Theft
assault/battery
Larceny
White collar crime
identity theft
Wall street robbery
Etc., Etc...…..

Don't even understand what that line of badgering is gonna buy you. Makes no sense at all. And it's stereotyping. In my community which is MIXED -- we hardly have an issue with ANYTHING on the list. Not mowing your yard will get you shunned real quick like tho..

You're a damn liar. Learn to say that to people like Karpenter before you say it to me. The things I mentioned are proven/supported by the FBI UCR.

 

[IM2]

I'm listening but what I hear is a bunch of white people trying to tell me what they have experienced is the same thing we have and that we need to shut up talking about it.

Just told you MUZZLING either side fixes nothing. Listening and DIALOGUE is the way to change perceptions.

You assume I'm ignorant about Civil rights struggles and racism. I'm not. I've told you I almost ruined my life confronting a couple cops that almost shoved a Black teen girl through the front glass window of our Head Start school in Miami during a race riot. Never would have gotten the clearances and career I had with a record like that.

I'm well read and well lectured to. Doesn't mean I don't want to hear it again. I just don't want to hear it from folks who adopt the same damn offensive tactics as white racists. A racist is a racist. A person for whom there IS no reconciliation or racial progress unless it's on THEIR TERMS.

I'm going to say this you once, don't you ever forget it as long as you are white. Whites had at least 8 different chances to end racism. 1776, 1787, 1790, 1857, 1865, 1896, 1954,1965, and did not do it. Each time whites were the ones in total command, they got to implement the solutions and make all the decisions. And still what ended up happening was that whites created ways to circumvent things in order to maintain the system of white supremacy. We, the people of color, have been the ones muzzled and not listened to. Everything that has been done has been on white terms. Your mental condition doesn't allow you to honestly face these realities and perhaps you need to go back and learn them.

 

[john54]

I like well mannered southern living, but would like to see it find some way to exist alongside the rest of the world and the rest of the country. I think the South has a lot to offer culture-wise to those of us on the coasts, but the racism is there, and I think it's messing up what would otherwise be a very hospitable culture. You ever talk to a German about how they let go of their attachment to some of that ugly history. You don't see them waving Swastikas around there but in our South we've got the Confederate flag flying around for everyone to see.

The confederate flag is no longer "racial identity" in the South. It's a regional identity. Because we ARE different from those tiny densely packed islands of Blue Socialist paradise you Southern hate-mongers live in.

I have to add this because I feel like something is really off and not getting through here and it is seriously beyond *****ed up.

For a second let's not talk about the million other forms of racism in this country and talk for a moment about the most glaringly blatant and patently absurd Confederate flag. You just talked about "Southern hate-mongers."This is the whining I'm talking about but let's hold off on that for a second and if you can, just bear with me. You are clearly feeling some of the anger and yeah, probably even hate that has been developing for the South as they become further and further associated with racism. Maybe you won't say it outright, but it's hurtful as hell, isn't it? The South is where you grew up, where the people you know and love live, where your history is, and it sounds like you have a lot of pride in Southern values.

So imagine for a second that liberal hatred for "your kind" got so strong that somehow or another liberals brought force down upon the South and hell, why not, enslaved you and everyone like you. Would be great for the economy, after all. So we work you to death, you Confederate-worshipping Southern vermin. We rape your women. We sell off your children and work them to death. None of you live long. Any remnant of your culture is whipped and beaten out of you. You and your kind endure hundreds of years of blackness and nothingness.

Then you're freed, you get some of your rights back, you're still stigmatized, and people everywhere still wave around the Liberal flag because it reminds them of better days. And oh no, those days had nothing to do with enslaving you Southerners, it was about preserving Liberal culture! They don't get why you find the flag so offensive! What's wrong with you self-victimizing Southerners feeling so sorry for yourselves?

Get it. Please. Just get it?

 

[flacaltenn]

Why do you need that identity? I'm not saying liberal Blue Socialist paradises are inherently any better than Red Fascist oases. Racism is strong up here too. I said in my first paragraph it's in me too whether I want it there or not. But hell, why cling to your history so hard in the first place? No one I know around here gives a thought to their history and they're not any more or less happy on average than people who do. It's not like losing attachment to history is the same as dying, people can live without it. And if my history had something as horrible in it as enslaving people I don't see why I'd want anything to do with it.

I get that if it's what you grew up with and everyone around you is just as attached to it as you and it's a huge part of your life it's not going to be something you can just up and let go of, but damn, slavery? Really? That is some sick stuff. Why hold onto the emblem? Why not keep the values and lose the flag?

Do you folks in whatever 1/2 caff, almond milk, mocha latte sipping place you live "noodle for catfish"? You big fans of Nascar? What's the percent population in your hood of bass boat owning folks? You got deer and wild turkey in your yard? Appreciate the hottest growing music segment in America of country music? (We outstrip viewership for Oscars, VMA, etc with the Country Music Awards. Because it good clean family quality entertainment. Leave people of faith the hell alone if it's not your thing? We LIVE TOLERANCE and we live conservation and we know our neighbors.

Only place I've seen a lot of Stars and Bars is on the battlefields around my place that draw a million tourists a year. Or at Nascar races before about 2000. Because Nascar IS a southern invention and tradition growing directly out of the anti-federal moonshiners who would race the revenuers down country roads and fire trails.
So a few Confed flags at a Nascar Event is a REGIONAL pride display. Not a command post for racists. AND it MIGHT still have an "anti-federalist" message for some. But then Cal-Exit is gonna happen before the next Southern secession will happen.

And face it. There's been organized groups suggesting an alternate "southern identity" flag. But even if it had bunnies and puppies on it -- you'd STILL accuse us of institutionalized racial dog-whistling --- wouldn't you?

Get over the Civil War. The only ones still fighting it are you Blue Island haters.