Why we needed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

[TakeAStepBack]

I'm not seeing your point. This chart shows overwhelming evidence that the health care market is dysfunctional. It shows ample evidence of artificial health care inflation. I don't see any 'evidence' to support a plan to make us all indentured servants to the insurance industry. Was there another page I missed?

That's because it isn't there. The OP tries to say that we need Obama Tax because the charts at the link show an explosive increase in healthcare costs in the US. While we already have massive govt. intervention into this economic sector, the OP points out that this new legislation will improve costs (at least in a vague manner) where all of the others fail.

But of course, this is simply more statist cheering for more state encroachment at the expense of freedoms/liberties. It's the same story from Statists we see time and time again. That although legislation has failed and creates unseen consequences, we simply need more legislation to fix the problem of too much legislation.

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology. The cost to both private sector and public sector employers and citizens has continued to grow for three decades, and your solution is for government to get out of the way; the same solution for every problem of the wackadoodles right. Next I suspect you'll play the "Socialism card" as a well indoctrinated parrot is want to do.

The issue is that you're so indoctrinated into the school of omnipotent government, that you actually believe that more legislation on top of the negative consequences of legislation will fix the problem. But go ahead and give it another try. That's what insane people do, and Statists are completely insane.

 

[eflatminor]

The cost to both private sector and public sector employers and citizens has continued to grow for three decades

Despite MASSIVE meddling from governments at the federal, state and local levels. Shocking! Now compare that to areas in which government has not intervened, such as elective/cosmetic surgery and guess what? Prices have come down dramatically, driven by competition and choice.

But hey, I'm sure YOUR version of central planning will work beautifully despite past failings...

 

[Truthmatters]

Note they refuse to answer the direct question about the facts

 

[Truthmatters]

why do you on the right constantly deny cold hard facts?

Why do you keep waking up everyday and continuing on with your life?

people like this little asshole is who the republican party is going to have to kick to the curb with a smile on their face before they can gain any new voters.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Paint chips for breakfast again, TM?

 

[dblack]

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology.

Then why are we talking about PPACA?

I agree something needs to be done about spiraling health care inflation. PPACA ignores the core causes of this, doubling down on a bad solution by forcing all of us to participate in the very fucking scheme (corporate insurance) that's driven prices through the roof in the first place. First do no harm. PPACA is massive harm, and precious little relief.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology.

Then why are we talking about PPACA?

I agree something needs to be done about spiraling health care inflation. PPACA ignores the core causes of this, doubling down on a bad solution by forcing all of us to participate in the very fucking scheme (corporate insurance) that's driven prices through the roof in the first place. First do no harm. PPACA is massive harm, and precious little relief.

That's the plan though. To make the situation so unbearable that the citizens scream for a government option or a complete govt. take over. Both Obama and passed congressman have admitted to that.

The Obama Tax is designed and put in place to make that not only possible, but inevitable.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama needs to decide who gets health care

 

[Wry Catcher]

That's because it isn't there. The OP tries to say that we need Obama Tax because the charts at the link show an explosive increase in healthcare costs in the US. While we already have massive govt. intervention into this economic sector, the OP points out that this new legislation will improve costs (at least in a vague manner) where all of the others fail.

But of course, this is simply more statist cheering for more state encroachment at the expense of freedoms/liberties. It's the same story from Statists we see time and time again. That although legislation has failed and creates unseen consequences, we simply need more legislation to fix the problem of too much legislation.

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology. The cost to both private sector and public sector employers and citizens has continued to grow for three decades, and your solution is for government to get out of the way; the same solution for every problem of the wackadoodles right. Next I suspect you'll play the "Socialism card" as a well indoctrinated parrot is want to do.

The issue is that you're so indoctrinated into the school of omnipotent government, that you actually believe that more legislation on top of the negative consequences of legislation will fix the problem. But go ahead and give it another try. That's what insane people do, and Statists are completely insane.

Well, as usual you default to the personal attacks and name calling. I'm no more a "statist" than you are an anarchist, but you're closer to the latter than I to the former. Given the tone of your post, and your inability to provide a cogent response to your claim in your final paragraph, it follows that you are the one who wants to continue to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different outcome.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology. The cost to both private sector and public sector employers and citizens has continued to grow for three decades, and your solution is for government to get out of the way; the same solution for every problem of the wackadoodles right. Next I suspect you'll play the "Socialism card" as a well indoctrinated parrot is want to do.

The issue is that you're so indoctrinated into the school of omnipotent government, that you actually believe that more legislation on top of the negative consequences of legislation will fix the problem. But go ahead and give it another try. That's what insane people do, and Statists are completely insane.

Well, as usual you default to the personal attacks and name calling. I'm no more a "statist" than you are an anarchist, but you're closer to the latter than I to the former. Given the tone of your post, and your inability to provide a cogent response to your claim in your final paragraph, it follows that you are the one who wants to continue to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different outcome.

You're as clueless about how to debate and what you say as you are clueless about the issue you're posting about. I gave you the information to back up my assertion. A plethora of it, in fact. And it is true that statists such as yourself are insane, or you wouldn't be arguing that a tax will bring down the costs of healthcare. It's beyond fucking absurd. You also wouldn't be claiming default to personal attacks when that is EXACTLY what you did.

Typical Statist.

 

[eflatminor]

...you are the one who wants to continue to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different outcome.

TASB is calling for continuing the same destructive government meddling in the market for healthcare?

You might want to rethink that one.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

See:

U.S. Health Care Costs Since 1980 | The Big Picture

From a quick glimpse at the article you posted we need Obamacare to increase costs because costs have been going up. Not sure I follow the logic involved here, but I am used to statists not making sense to me.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

More government regulation always makes thing cheaper and more accessible.

Look at the link!

U.S. Health Care Costs Since 1980 | The Big Picture

It is, basically, saying that health care costs started getting out of control about the time that the government decided that emergency care was a social responsibility and made it illegal to turn away someone simply because they could not prove they could pay.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm not seeing your point. This chart shows overwhelming evidence that the health care market is dysfunctional. It shows ample evidence of artificial health care inflation. I don't see any 'evidence' to support a plan to make us all indentured servants to the insurance industry. Was there another page I missed?

That's because it isn't there. The OP tries to say that we need Obama Tax because the charts at the link show an explosive increase in healthcare costs in the US. While we already have massive govt. intervention into this economic sector, the OP points out that this new legislation will improve costs (at least in a vague manner) where all of the others fail.

But of course, this is simply more statist cheering for more state encroachment at the expense of freedoms/liberties. It's the same story from Statists we see time and time again. That although legislation has failed and creates unseen consequences, we simply need more legislation to fix the problem of too much legislation.

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology. The cost to both private sector and public sector employers and citizens has continued to grow for three decades, and your solution is for government to get out of the way; the same solution for every problem proposed by the wackadoodle right. Next I suspect you'll play the "Socialism card" as a well indoctrinated parrot is want to do.

Your solution to government driving up costs is more government, and you think I am crazy because I insist on pointing out how stupid that is.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology.

Then why are we talking about PPACA?

I agree something needs to be done about spiraling health care inflation. PPACA ignores the core causes of this, doubling down on a bad solution by forcing all of us to participate in the very fucking scheme (corporate insurance) that's driven prices through the roof in the first place. First do no harm. PPACA is massive harm, and precious little relief.

Well, I support universal preventative health, cradle to grave. The details on how is what should be debated. Sadly, the special interests saw their golden goose at risk and put on a full scale defense causing the PPACA to be a camel and not a horse.

 

[Wry Catcher]

That's because it isn't there. The OP tries to say that we need Obama Tax because the charts at the link show an explosive increase in healthcare costs in the US. While we already have massive govt. intervention into this economic sector, the OP points out that this new legislation will improve costs (at least in a vague manner) where all of the others fail.

But of course, this is simply more statist cheering for more state encroachment at the expense of freedoms/liberties. It's the same story from Statists we see time and time again. That although legislation has failed and creates unseen consequences, we simply need more legislation to fix the problem of too much legislation.

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology. The cost to both private sector and public sector employers and citizens has continued to grow for three decades, and your solution is for government to get out of the way; the same solution for every problem proposed by the wackadoodle right. Next I suspect you'll play the "Socialism card" as a well indoctrinated parrot is want to do.

Your solution to government driving up costs is more government, and you think I am crazy because I insist on pointing out how stupid that is.

I don't believe you're stupid, I do believe you haven't sorted out the cost benefits and cost deficits on the entire issue of health care in America. Follow the money is always a good idea.

 

[eflatminor]

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology.

Then why are we talking about PPACA?

I agree something needs to be done about spiraling health care inflation. PPACA ignores the core causes of this, doubling down on a bad solution by forcing all of us to participate in the very fucking scheme (corporate insurance) that's driven prices through the roof in the first place. First do no harm. PPACA is massive harm, and precious little relief.

Well, I support universal preventative health, cradle to grave. The details on how is what should be debated. Sadly, the special interests saw their golden goose at risk and put on a full scale defense causing the PPACA to be a camel and not a horse.

So because the current level of government meddling in healthcare has caused prices to skyrocket well beyond the overall rate of inflation, we need even more of government meddling to fix the rising prices? Logic fail there.

Anyone think it's a coincidence that the two markets where government meddles most (healthcare and education) are the two areas where prices are most out of control?

InflationData: Education Inflation

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The issue is affordable health care and not a debate on your ideology. The cost to both private sector and public sector employers and citizens has continued to grow for three decades, and your solution is for government to get out of the way; the same solution for every problem proposed by the wackadoodle right. Next I suspect you'll play the "Socialism card" as a well indoctrinated parrot is want to do.

Your solution to government driving up costs is more government, and you think I am crazy because I insist on pointing out how stupid that is.

I don't believe you're stupid, I do believe you haven't sorted out the cost benefits and cost deficits on the entire issue of health care in America. Follow the money is always a good idea.

I haven't sorted them out? I described, in detail, my solution to health care costs and went through Obamacare to show how it would drive up costs. You insist that magical government intervention would drive down costs. Reality has struck, costs are going up faster after Obamacare has gone into effect, and you still insist your solution makes more sense than mine.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Then why are we talking about PPACA?

I agree something needs to be done about spiraling health care inflation. PPACA ignores the core causes of this, doubling down on a bad solution by forcing all of us to participate in the very fucking scheme (corporate insurance) that's driven prices through the roof in the first place. First do no harm. PPACA is massive harm, and precious little relief.

Well, I support universal preventative health, cradle to grave. The details on how is what should be debated. Sadly, the special interests saw their golden goose at risk and put on a full scale defense causing the PPACA to be a camel and not a horse.

So because the current level of government meddling in healthcare has caused prices to skyrocket well beyond the overall rate of inflation, we need even more of government meddling to fix the rising prices? Logic fail there.

Anyone think it's a coincidence that the two markets where government meddles most (healthcare and education) are the two areas where prices are most out of control?

InflationData: Education Inflation

You need to prove your premise; explain how "government meddling in health care" is the cause for "prices to skyrocket well beyond the overall rate of inflaiton" Don't be shy, explain the "meddling" and its costs and benefits.

BTW, claiming government meddling includes administrations of both D's and R's and since 1981 we've had 20 years of R's and 12 years of D's in the White House. Nothing was done by Congress either, and both parties during this time enjoyed majorities. What does that suggest to you?