Why the Tax compromise might actually be beneficial.

[Sallow]

Are you claiming it's the governments money?

It doesn't belong to the people whose taxes are being increased?

I fully believe that in a democratic republic with a wealth of service available to it's citizens that taxes are absolutely essential.

Nations that don't tax are generally authoritarian, communist or anarchist.

I agree, some taxation is a necessary evil, but that doesn't address the issue.

Do well off members of society deserve to be taxed more?

I've heard the argument that the rich owe more because they are the beneficiaries of the conditions established by the government...but let's nip that fallacy in the bud, as the conditions are available to every American and many foreigners.

It's not a fallacy. It's a fact. The rich benefit from a civil society the most.

 

[Truthmatters]

How stupid do you have to be to not know the rich in this country benifit most from our governments functions.

 

[Sallow]

To be sure..I am not endorsing the Tax Compromise. I think it was a big mistake..and it probably will wind up blowing a big hole in the deficit/debt.

However..I am postulating it might work..not that it will..

 

[Missourian]

I fully believe that in a democratic republic with a wealth of service available to it's citizens that taxes are absolutely essential.

Nations that don't tax are generally authoritarian, communist or anarchist.

I agree, some taxation is a necessary evil, but that doesn't address the issue.

Do well off members of society deserve to be taxed more?

I've heard the argument that the rich owe more because they are the beneficiaries of the conditions established by the government...but let's nip that fallacy in the bud, as the conditions are available to every American and many foreigners.

It's not a fallacy. It's a fact. The rich benefit from a civil society the most.

Fallacy...if the U.S. went from civil to uncivil overnight, the rich would hire private security and the middle class and poor would suffer most.

 

[Avorysuds]

How stupid do you have to be to not know the rich in this country benifit most from our governments functions.

Show us... I d a r e y o u . . .

Ops, TM is running her mouth with another talking point is all!

 

[Sallow]

I agree, some taxation is a necessary evil, but that doesn't address the issue.

Do well off members of society deserve to be taxed more?

I've heard the argument that the rich owe more because they are the beneficiaries of the conditions established by the government...but let's nip that fallacy in the bud, as the conditions are available to every American and many foreigners.

It's not a fallacy. It's a fact. The rich benefit from a civil society the most.

Fallacy...if the U.S. went from civil to uncivil overnight, the rich would hire private security and the middle class and poor would suffer most.

Yeah..that's just what happened in the French Revolution, the Soviet Revolution and the Chinese Revolution. The rich and their private armies fended off the masses..

 

[Missourian]

How stupid do you have to be to not know the rich in this country benifit most from our governments functions.

Show us... I d a r e y o u . . .

Ops, TM is running her mouth with another talking point is all!

I just ignore her...TM is spoon-fed her opinions.

Sallow OTOH is pretty savvy...I don't agree with him/her, but his/her opinion does show that he/she has at least examined the party line before adopting it.

Are you a he or a she Sallow, not that it's important, but it does save time typing pronouns.

I am a "he".

 

[Avorysuds]

How stupid do you have to be to not know the rich in this country benifit most from our governments functions.

Show us... I d a r e y o u . . .

Ops, TM is running her mouth with another talking point is all!

I just ignore her...TM is spoon-fed her opinions.

Sallow OTOH is pretty savvy...I don't agree with him/her, but his/her opinion does show that he/she has at least examined the party line before adopting it.

Are you a he or a she Sallow, not that it's important, but it does save time typing pronouns.

I am a "he".

Oh I know to ignore TM but I'd love to see her prove "rich" people (at 200,000-1,000,000 million a year) use MORE than everyone else... THEN I'd like to see her show why people paying 45,000-200,000 thousand a year in taxes should be taxed MORE because people that pay ZERO taxes and who might also be getting subsidies from the Government somehow use LESS and are LESS dependent on our "infrastructure" and Government as a whole...

 

[Missourian]

It's not a fallacy. It's a fact. The rich benefit from a civil society the most.

Fallacy...if the U.S. went from civil to uncivil overnight, the rich would hire private security and the middle class and poor would suffer most.

Yeah..that's just what happened in the French Revolution, the Soviet Revolution and the Chinese Revolution. The rich and their private armies fended off the masses..

"Fend them off"????

Who is talking about attacking the rich?

Are you saying the rich need to pay more to keep the poor welfare-state Democrats from attacking them, killing them and outright stealing their money???

 

[Sallow]

How stupid do you have to be to not know the rich in this country benifit most from our governments functions.

Show us... I d a r e y o u . . .

Ops, TM is running her mouth with another talking point is all!

I just ignore her...TM is spoon-fed her opinions.

Sallow OTOH is pretty savvy...I don't agree with him/her, but his/her opinion does show that he/she has at least examined the party line before adopting it.

Are you a he or a she Sallow, not that it's important, but it does save time typing pronouns.

I am a "he".

Well..

A big ugly looking hairy..he..



Thanks for the compliment..I think..

And I do like your posts as well. You don't get personal or mad. Seem to be very cool headed.

Grats.

 

[Contumacious]

HUH?

WTF.

So individuals have no right to retain THEIR money. The fascist state should only allow them the "privilege" of holding on to THEIR money if the state benefits, right?!?!?!?!?!

.

Do you believe the American people aren't responsible for the national debt, or the annual national budget spending?

I believe EVERY American is responsible, and all should be required to pay their fair share.

"Fair share" is a fascist cliche.

Every American should pay those taxes that are CONSTITUTIONALLY (1787) imposed.

.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wait...Krugman's right about financial matters? Really? Name one thing he ever got right

He was completely correct about the economy that were the result of President Bush's policies and it's eventual collapse.

You mean he was in favor of Bushs efforts to reform Fannie and Freddie in advance of their collapsing the US residential housing market?

Yeah?

 

[Contumacious]

Nope they are not.

Those Born to these wealthy people inherit a shit load and USE this shitload to keep the money at the top.


They need to pay for way more of the functions of this nation because they get way more of the benifits from our countries infrastructure and laws.

So the rich should be penalized?

I think the poor ought to be penalized instead. That way they will quit fucking around and learn a marketable skill.

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

HUH?

WTF.

So individuals have no right to retain THEIR money. The fascist state should only allow them the "privilege" of holding on to THEIR money if the state benefits, right?!?!?!?!?!

.

Do you believe the American people aren't responsible for the national debt, or the annual national budget spending?

No, the goddamned politicians are.

The bastards who created the federal Reserve Board in order to create an "elastic currency" are responsible.

FDR, the creator of the welfare state , is responsible.

The motherfuckers are always looking for ways to increase their power and influence.

.

Well then, if you're not legally responsible for the cost of government, why do you pay your taxes in the first place?

Why are you handing them 'your' money, if they've no legal right to collect taxes from you?

 

[Avatar4321]

Nope they are not.

Those Born to these wealthy people inherit a shit load and USE this shitload to keep the money at the top.


They need to pay for way more of the functions of this nation because they get way more of the benifits from our countries infrastructure and laws.

Well if you dont like that, maybe you should stop pushing this progressive income tax which places obstacles on people who work their asses off to rise out of poverty and the middle class and does absolutely nothing to stop the people who inherit their money.

Maybe a consumption tax would be more appropriate. At least if you actually care about the issue.

Otherwise, all you are doing is ensuring that those people who already have their money retain their wealth and power.

 

[Two Thumbs]

When the the Tax compromise got through congress, I was pretty much angry at President Obama for what I saw as a capitulation to the Republicans. Really? We didn't notice. That assessment may have been somewhat wrong, considering all the progress of the lame duck session. Personally, I really think a good deal of horse trading went on, beyond what was in the compromise. Ya think? President Obama managed to get most of his agenda through the legislature.

While watching Krugman last night, I was thinking, damn..that guy doesn't see an upshot to anything lately. He's mostly right about financial matters but there is a glimmer of hope here. And this is why..

Consider:
- For 8 years during the Bush administration, the Tax cuts for the wealthy were touted as an "incentive" for "wealth producers" to generate jobs. They did anything but. Worked for 6 years. I wonder what changed? However, this time around, they actually lobbied pretty hard to retain the Tax cuts. And they are hard pressed to demonstrate that Tax cuts work. If in 2 years..no jobs have been created as a result of this..those cuts are definitely history. True, it's put up or shut time.
-President Obama met with many business leaders prior and after the compromise. I am pretty sure there was arm twisting going on both ways. Actually there was a lot of head rubbing, as the Biz leaders had to explain everything.
-There are many factors that make a new economic boom ripe to happen. Labor in the United States is pretty cheap, Since when?considering that they are of a better quality then almost all industrialized nations and the quality of American goods and services are still superior to almost all parts of the world. You got that part right *power flexes*

While there are still lots of unknowns and uncertainties..there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

Hopefully..it's not an oncoming train.

I think if Obama pulls a clinton, w/o pulling out clinton, he could get re-elected. Much of our greatest prosperity happened with a dem in the WH with reps running Congress.

If he doesn't, the reps win, and he's gone. It's far easier to pick off a leader than it is a person in a crowd.
I pity whoever replaces him. The right has talked a LOT of trash, and the TEA won't be patient, they will expect immediate results. (assuming it doesn't peater out)

 

[Two Thumbs]

Show us... I d a r e y o u . . .

Ops, TM is running her mouth with another talking point is all!

I just ignore her...TM is spoon-fed her opinions.

Sallow OTOH is pretty savvy...I don't agree with him/her, but his/her opinion does show that he/she has at least examined the party line before adopting it.

Are you a he or a she Sallow, not that it's important, but it does save time typing pronouns.

I am a "he".

Well..

A big ugly looking hairy..he..


Thanks for the compliment..I think..

And I do like your posts as well. You don't get personal or mad. Seem to be very cool headed.

Grats.

And you live in NYC.

hmm

Big hairy New Yorker.

(guido )

 

[Contumacious]

Not really. Facist states do not provide for most their citizens.

Really?

Here is a copy of the Nazi Party Platform:

Excerpts:

7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.

12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Nope they are not.

Those Born to these wealthy people inherit a shit load and USE this shitload to keep the money at the top.


They need to pay for way more of the functions of this nation because they get way more of the benifits from our countries infrastructure and laws.

Well if you dont like that, maybe you should stop pushing this progressive income tax which places obstacles on people who work their asses off to rise out of poverty and the middle class and does absolutely nothing to stop the people who inherit their money.

Maybe a consumption tax would be more appropriate. At least if you actually care about the issue.

Otherwise, all you are doing is ensuring that those people who already have their money retain their wealth and power.

A consumption tax in place of the income tax would have as its primary effect:

Raising taxes on lower/moderate income Americans and lowering taxes on wealthier Americans.

Setting aside ALL other arguments for or against it, please tell us in what political universe is that ever going to get sufficient support to pass?

Because it's not in this universe.

 

[Contumacious]

Do you believe the American people aren't responsible for the national debt, or the annual national budget spending?

No, the goddamned politicians are.

The bastards who created the federal Reserve Board in order to create an "elastic currency" are responsible.

FDR, the creator of the welfare state , is responsible.

The motherfuckers are always looking for ways to increase their power and influence.

.

Well then, if you're not legally responsible for the cost of government, why do you pay your taxes in the first place?

Why are you handing them 'your' money, if they've no legal right to collect taxes from you?

For the same reasons people give their property to any common criminal.

.